Scottish independence: Referendum to be held on 18 September, 2014

I'm proud to be a Scot and proud to be British. I resent that fact that some nationalist idiot thinks I must choose one over the other.

I'll be honest, it worries me. I'd like to think sense will prevail but I know a lot of stupid people that might vote for independence (mostly on false promises of oil wealth and misplaced historical notions). If they get their way Scotland will end up a bankrupt joke of a nation.

Scottish politicians will borrow the nation into the poorhouse just like southern Europe. There is no financially conservative Scottish political party as a counterbalance.

Do they think if they win that the No voters will just stay put and be willing participants in the downfall? There will be a financial and intellectual exodus, me included. I'll be leaving before they take my UK passport away.

reply to post by mclarenmp4


I understand why your undecided, but you have plenty of time to decide which way you will vote - at least it seems your vote will be considered and informed, let's hope the same will be said about the majority of Scots.

But I don't understand why a newly independant country would want to retain ties with a currency it has zero control over - that's not independance in my book.
And you forget one minor detail relating to that - it won't be Scotland's choice if it votes for independance and under such circumstances the rest of the UK may be unwilling to tie their currency to a new country with an unsure future.

Just throwing a few links out there for all the folks who passionately disagree with my belief that taxes paid in England currently subsidise the Scottish economy.

www.gov.uk...

In 2010 there was record £8.5 billion gap between UK Government spending on welfare and pensions in Scotland and all the revenue raised from North Sea oil and gas.
Scottish Secretary Michael Moore said it was a great strength of the UK that we provided the same level of help to those who needed it regardless of which part of the UK they live in.
He also said it highlighted the fact that the Scottish Government’s numbers “don’t stack up” when they propose that oil and gas revenues will pay for the costs of separating Scotland from the rest of the UK.

www.bbc.co.uk...

If all North Sea oil revenues had been allocated to Scotland, there would have been a surplus in Scottish public spending in only nine years out of the last 27. The total deficit since 1980-81, when the Treasury coffers began to bulge with North Sea revenues, would have built up to £20bn.

Original Scotland Office link here, but currently unavailable: www.scotlandoffice.gov.uk...

www.telegraph.co.uk...

In Scotland, the Government spent £10,212 per person on average last year – £1,624 more than in England.

If you disagree then of course share the love and enlighten me with some links to back your claims up, until then though I shall assume we will be financially better off if Scotland votes for independence.
It will be interesting to see how a 'free' Scotland will sustain their free prescriptions and university education which some posters have so smugly proclaimed in this thread.

The sooner we get rid of Westminster and the cash cow that is London the better...it's time for us to go it alone.....any more of their Schitt and we'll be sending the soon to be England, NI and Wales's only 300 Nukes southwards...Armed Preferably..Tory toff Scum...

If Scotland is such a Burden, why doesn't England have their own referendum to get rid of us.....Please feel free..
As far as the oil Goes, there should be at least another 100 years supply as we are still finding more off the coast of Scotland each year...And we'll fight you to the death for it..

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
The sooner we get rid of Westminster and the cash cow that is London the better...it's time for us to go it alone.....any more of their Schitt and we'll be sending the soon to be England, NI and Wales's only 300 Nukes southwards...Armed Preferably..Tory toff Scum...

Ah, passionate and seemingly unkind sentiments, I do wonder why you would want to get rid of a cash cow you are happily milking from though? If you could explain that to me I would be grateful, I struggle to understand it due to my lack of hatred for the union blinding my reasoned opinion.

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
If Scotland is such a Burden, why doesn't England have their own referendum to get rid of us.....Please feel free..
As far as the oil Goes, there should be at least another 100 years supply as we are still finding more off the coast of Scotland each year...And we'll fight you to the death for it..

As I asked in my post, if you feel Scotland is not subsidised by English taxes then please provide some links to research or other records to support your claims. I look forward to being enlightened.

Ah, the tough Scots - rrrready to go it alone!

Or are they?

Have the economic implications actually been considered? Can Scotland survive well and progress independently without the Union?

I am doubtful - but maybe someone thinks otherwise?

reply to post by grainofsand


we will have our independence...London can go schitt as far as i'm concerned...yeah London subsidies us Scots...more like the rest of the UK subsidies London..
Next time try the internet for facts and not the main stream media for your Pro Union propaganda...as i said..if we are such a burden have you own referendum and get rid of us...what you scared of..??


Thatcher was terrified of losing us, maybe not us, but she was terrified of losing the oil and gas off OUR Shores...we will manage just fine without Westminster

reply to post by HomoSapiensSapiens

Ahh the tough Scots....we invented half the stuff you use in your daily life....and we are still going strong. Dont worry about us...just get on with your own existence and leave us alone...Soar Alba

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
reply to post by grainofsand

 

we will have our independence...London can go schitt as far as i'm concerned...yeah London subsidies us Scots...more like the rest of the UK subsidies London..
Next time try the internet for facts and not the main stream media for your Pro Union propaganda...as i said..if we are such a burden have you own referendum and get rid of us...what you scared of..??


Thatcher was terrified of losing us, maybe not us, but she was terrified of losing the oil and gas off OUR Shores...we will manage just fine without Westminster

I used government links as well as mainstream media, if you have any to challenge what I brought to the debating table then please do share them, I look forward to it.
...until such time though, your opinion remains unsubstantiated.

*edit* Please do provide links to disprove and discredit my own, I seek enlightenment and it will only happen through the reasoned and sourced arguments of people such as yourself. Thanks in advance.

reply to post by Soloprotocol


You fancy trusting your currency to the same guys who are trying to wreck Cyprus? as you won't be able to use the pound as currency since its out of order north of the border, really its got to be either 100% one way or the other and as far as i'm concerned i'd like it to be as fast as possible so the day after the votes been counted and agreed so should scotland be viewed a free nation then its on its own and its up to its leaders to guide it as they've had plenty of time to plan for it and what happens is upto them and their leaders

reply to post by grainofsand


Are you for real...you provide Links from the internet and other media sources to benefit your argument but we are not allowed to respond in kind...seriously...Soar Alba

Originally posted by justwokeup
I'm proud to be a Scot and proud to be British. I resent that fact that some nationalist idiot thinks I must choose one over the other.

I'll be honest, it worries me. I'd like to think sense will prevail but I know a lot of stupid people that might vote for independence (mostly on false promises of oil wealth and misplaced historical notions). If they get their way Scotland will end up a bankrupt joke of a nation.

Scottish politicians will borrow the nation into the poorhouse just like southern Europe. There is no financially conservative Scottish political party as a counterbalance.

Do they think if they win that the No voters will just stay put and be willing participants in the downfall? There will be a financial and intellectual exodus, me included. I'll be leaving before they take my UK passport away.

This:

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
reply to post by grainofsand

 

Are you for real...you provide Links from the internet and other media sources to benefit your argument but we are not allowed to respond in kind...seriously...Soar Alba

I think you must have misread my posts. I ask for links to discredit mine if that is how anyone feels.
Please do, feel free to provide information which shoots my earlier economic considerations regarding English taxes subsidising Scotland down. I await such enlightenment and welcome it as someone who follows a reasonable and rational path in life.

*edit* I refer you back to my original post: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Let play a Game.
www.scotsman.com...
and
www.thesundaytimes.co.uk...
and.
www.newstatesman.com...
shall we go on..

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
Let play a Game.
www.scotsman.com...
and
www.thesundaytimes.co.uk...
and.
www.newstatesman.com...
shall we go on..

...got any .gov.uk links?
That would be a more fun game, even if it's from scotland.gov.uk, at least you match me with the .gov then

*Edit* And let's make a few relevant quotes included in our links in our posts as well. If only for the benefit of members so they do not have to click on the links. It's how I tend to roll in my digital life

reply to post by grainofsand

Hahahahahahahahaha...The government...do you seriously believe the Government would ever tell you the truth...Hhahahahahahahahahahahaha....stops for breath.....AAAAAhahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
reply to post by grainofsand

 

Hahahahahahahahaha...The government...do you seriously believe the Government would ever tell you the truth...Hhahahahahahahahahahahaha....stops for breath.....AAAAAhahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That's cool, it's your opinion and I respect your right to trust the Scottish .gov/media publicity, so again, I ask please share some research from your Scottish government to support the argument that English taxes do not subsidise Scottish services.

*Edit* Most media sources use government stats or claims to make a story. If your own Scots media claims are of substance then I would assume that they would be based on some research available which is backed by the devolved government of Scotland. If it does not exist then I of course have increased doubts, but perhaps you do not trust the Scottish governmenment because they are...well..in government?
What do you trust then? Newspapers?

reply to post by grainofsand


Well we were forced to pay the poll tax before any other part of the UK for a full year...so that in my book says Westminster owes us....look under unfair taxes......
Look. i dont really care about getting into a argument with no onre here...my beef is with Westminter...we will win...i have no doubt about that...we just have to watch for the false budget proposals and more fake economy figures coming through nearer the time..

I know the score, Westminster can never be trusted to tell the people that elected them in the first place the truth...ever!!