Scottish independence: Referendum to be held on 18 September, 2014

I'm American, but my father is originally from Aberdeenshire. I support whatever the will of the majority of the people of Scotland is, provided whatever happens is peaceful. You gave the world Shirley Manson, so whatever your people want is fine with me.

Peace.

This has already been turned into a vote for SNP - Scottish independance does not necessarily automatically mean that the SNP would be elected to govern.
I suspect a Scottish Labour Party would give them a good run for their money.
But no matter which way you look at it Salmond is a liability - he is a proven liar with little, if any, credibility outside of his party.

So you've got to wonder exactly whose purpose does he serve?

Personally I firmly believe we are Better Together and we should concentrate on the many things we have in common rather than the few things that seperate us.
Coming from North East England I fully understand the alienation many Scots feel with Westminster and the London / Home Counties / South East centric nature of UK politics and economics etc, but I feel we have a better chance of effecting real and positive change if we retain some form of Union.
(Got to admit there is some selfish self-interest there - if Scotland votes for independance then England and the rest of the UK will be doomed to an eternal Conservative government and no Tory government has ever done anything good or positive for the North East).

Scotland will vote as Scotland see's fit - and that's as it should be.

But I passionately believe that if it votes for independance then that's what you get - none of this shared currency nonsense, same border controls as any other country, export and import regulations etc.
All or nothing!

A quick aside; why do so many pro-indpendance Scots try to insinuate that The Union was enforced upon Scotland and that Scotland is something of a subjugated nation? - it came about at the request of Scotland and Scotland has been a full partner in it since it's inception.

Oh and another thing; the result of the referendum will have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on other parts of the UK, especially considering all current opinion polls suggest support for The Union is growing, even in more traditionally Nationalist communities in Ulster.

reply to post by mclarenmp4

The path England are going politcally is a recipe for disaster, all 3 parties are identical

Got to agree with you there - how Cameron has sold the demonising of the poorest and most needy in society both baffles and disgusts me - and all with barely a whimper from the so called party of the working class and it's leader Miliband is to Labour's eternal shame.

and that IMO is the biggest threat to the union.

Yes - and North East and North West England along with Yorkshire etc.

The only person I would vote for in GE is UKIP, at least Farrage is honest and see's the scam for what it is.

Farage is one-trick pony and UKIP are nothing but the anti-EU wing of The Tory Party.
(Not that I'm pro-EU at all!)

I must say, i find it bemusing that many pro-independance Scots want to break away from The Union then surrender their sovereignty to the corrupt and rotten EU?

Originally posted by Cobaltic1978
reply to post by newpopeislast

 

So you regained your identity by what? Voting in a Nationalist party!!

I don't understand your mentality. You say you will be much better off outside the union, yet you claim England would be finished without you?

Is that what you really believe? Or are you following Mr Salmond down the road to ruin blindly? Just how are you going to benefit?

I am Scottish, but you are right.
2nd

I wish I knew more about the whole situation.
But between being an American and the MSM....I do not.

I do know a bit of Scots history...things like the Battle of Culloden and the fact that England felt the need to make subjects of a proud and free people....at least that is my take.

I hope Scotland votes for independence...and that they do what it takes to make it a success.

The argument That Scotland would somehow be worse off after the break-up and that it is somehow ripping the English off year in year out has on the whole been de-bunked both out with the UK msm and within the UK on sites that are not controlled by westminister wall street journal yes this is oil money but enough there to get us going.

We also export a fair bit of power to England and I saw a report on BBC news a while back where some UK power companies strongly beleved that England would have an extreme power shortage within a few years.

At present I a British and Scottish; will I vote for independence I don't know, the union has both its good and bad points, For both sides. Anyway deny ignorance is our motto so I will keep looking for information and make my choice in an informed manner.

reply to post by Knobby


Hiya Knobby,
If they keep their word and hold the National Referendum in 18 months, I will be very happy.
Do you think that they will keep their word? Speaking as a 12 year ex-patriated NE Englishman,
If Scotland does gain independence, I might be seriously tempted to come back and retire in the Highlands or Western Isles

Scottish bank notes are just fine with me

PEACE,
RK

I would rather Scotland didn't leave the UK as I see them no different from the English/Irish/Welsh. But a small part of me does think yea go on do it. It might turn into a safe haven for when England is totally over run with immigrants and every last bit of our nationality and heritage has been buried by our weak Government.

reply to post by DontTreadOnMe

I do know a bit of Scots history...things like the Battle of Culloden....

Do you?

You will know then that The Battle Of Culloden was the final battle of The Jacobite Uprising.
An uprising whose sole intention was to install Charles Stuart as the absolute monarch over The Kingdom Of Great Britain thereby overruling the authority of the elected parliament.
In addition he had absolutely no intention whatsoever of breaking up The Union and restoring Scottish independance - a Union by the way instigated at the behest of Scottish nobles.
To do this Charles conspired with a foreign nation, France, with the express intention that France invade England - now why would the rest of the UK, including a large number of Scots, resist such an uprising?

It is also worth pointing out that the subsequent Highland Clearances were by and large carried out by Lowland Scots against Highland Scots.

and the fact that England felt the need to make subjects of a proud and free people....

Scotland has never been a subjugated nation - again, The Union was instigated at the behest of Scots and Scotland has been a willing partner in that Union ever since - to suggest anything other is both incorrect and something of an insult to the Scottish people and typical of the sterotyping of those damned bloody English as the villains.

Of course there have always been some Scots who preferred independance - they are now being given the opportunity to decide for themselves - as is right - and if they vote for independance then so be it - their choice - but that choice should be based on facts and reality and not romantic notions of some idyllic and imaginary past.

I suspect most Scots are wise enough to realise this - for some reason it seems to be those who cling on to some alleged long lost allegiance to Scotland who believe such nonsense and bollocks.

I hope Scotland votes for independence...

Why?

Exactly what is your reasoning behind such a hope?

and that they do what it takes to make it a success.

As do I - I have many good friends in Scotland, I'm a frequent visitor there and I think it's a great country and I'd hate to see them and it suffer as a result of their choice.
I'd certainly bear them no ill will, for purely selfish reasons I'd perhaps even view them with a bit of envy - but as I've said on countless occassions I firmly believe OUR best chance for positive change remains with some form of Union.

But it is Scotland's choice and no-one else's, I just hope that choice is a reasoned and qualified choice and not one tempered with and by any illusory romanticism.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by DontTreadOnMe

 

I do know a bit of Scots history...things like the Battle of Culloden....

Do you?

You will know then that The Battle Of Culloden was the final battle of The Jacobite Uprising.
An uprising whose sole intention was to install Charles Stuart as the absolute monarch over The Kingdom Of Great Britain thereby overruling the authority of the elected parliament.
In addition he had absolutely no intention whatsoever of breaking up The Union and restoring Scottish independance - a Union by the way instigated at the behest of Scottish nobles.
To do this Charles conspired with a foreign nation, France, with the express intention that France invade England - now why would the rest of the UK, including a large number of Scots, resist such an uprising?

It is also worth pointing out that the subsequent Highland Clearances were by and large carried out by Lowland Scots against Highland Scots.

and the fact that England felt the need to make subjects of a proud and free people....

Scotland has never been a subjugated nation - again, The Union was instigated at the behest of Scots and Scotland has been a willing partner in that Union ever since - to suggest anything other is both incorrect and something of an insult to the Scottish people and typical of the sterotyping of those damned bloody English as the villains.

Of course there have always been some Scots who preferred independance - they are now being given the opportunity to decide for themselves - as is right - and if they vote for independance then so be it - their choice - but that choice should be based on facts and reality and not romantic notions of some idyllic and imaginary past.

I suspect most Scots are wise enough to realise this - for some reason it seems to be those who cling on to some alleged long lost allegiance to Scotland who believe such nonsense and bollocks.

I hope Scotland votes for independence...

Why?

Exactly what is your reasoning behind such a hope?

and that they do what it takes to make it a success.

As do I - I have many good friends in Scotland, I'm a frequent visitor there and I think it's a great country and I'd hate to see them and it suffer as a result of their choice.
I'd certainly bear them no ill will, for purely selfish reasons I'd perhaps even view them with a bit of envy - but as I've said on countless occassions I firmly believe OUR best chance for positive change remains with some form of Union.

But it is Scotland's choice and no-one else's, I just hope that choice is a reasoned and qualified choice and not one tempered with and by any illusory romanticism.

Agree with everything you have said, your one of the few who speak sense. The UK is far stronger together.

The other thing I find very interesting was just last week the MPs for Orkney and Shetland were saying that if Scotland becomes independent, then they quite seriously want to explore independence for the Orkney and Shetland islands.

Because, after all, it is most assuredly not Scotlands oil, it is Orkney and Shetlands oil.

I'm pretty convinced that if Scotland goes for Independence, within a few years Orkney and Shetland will have voted to split off on their own, because they'd get all the oil, and everybody that lives there would instantly become millionaires. Sod infrastructure, they'd be so rich they wouldn't need it.

And that would leave Scotland in a very sorry pickle indeed.

reply to post by Painterz


Indeed - I have read several reports where the people of Shetland and Orkney would demand their Right To Self-Determination to be respected if Scotland chooses independance.

Alex Salmond has even admitted that this could be a problem as polls suggest the majority wish to remain within the UK whilst there is also a small but growing movement for independance from both the UK and Scotland - in fact Holyrood is viewed with outright disdain, disgust and even open hostility by most islanders.

It is estimated that approximately 25% of the remaining oil and gas lies within The Northern Isles' region along with fishery rights etc - revenue from which is paramount to Salmond's plans.

Good for them!

I think all people should have the right to reevaluate the relationship they have with their government at all levels. In no way should the formation of a nation be perpetually binding across all generations.

I am all for each of the States in the US being able to make a periodic reassessment of their relationship with the Federal Government. Why should the people of say Missouri be perpetually bound by the petition to enter the Union over 100 years ago.

Much has changed since then and all people should have the right to form thier own government - period.

I would even go so far as to say that counties and towns should be able to seceed from thier States and Nations.

Originally posted by Freeborn
But it is Scotland's choice and no-one else's, I just hope that choice is a reasoned and qualified choice and not one tempered with and by any illusory romanticism.

Regardless of the reasons – it is like you said their choice; as it should be.

Originally posted by tdk84
The UK is far stronger together.

While that may well be true it doesn’t take away the people’s right to self determination free of the threat of subjugation by force of arms should they decide to leave.

I can assure you that is exactly what would happen in the US should a State decide to have a petition of referendum for secession. Sad that we have supported every break away nation in the last 100 years but would not allow the same here. AmerikA!

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha


Mr Michael Mcintyre!

I'm glad Scotland will be it's own country again. My wife was born there, and I've lived there, and if I'm not mistaken, the fine people of Scotland are pretty damn'd independent anyway! Don't you just hate 'paperwork'? I know I do! And to all the fine folks at the "Steak House" in Brechin, CHEERS ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Originally posted by PW229
Scotland will not be "gaining" independence, it will be "regaining" independence. Scotland was an independent and sovereign nation until the 1707 Act of Union.

And Ystad Clud, Bernicia and Pictland were independant nations until the Irish (Scots) invaded them

But anyway, it was James VI who first proposed that the British should unite in a single nation, and the later Darien disaster that led to the Scots begging for it to save them from financial ruin.

As an Englishman I will drop to my knees and kiss the fuggin floor if Scotland decides to go it alone.
It will save the English taxpayer a fortune, assuming our Governement turns off the tap which has poured money in Scotland for eons.
England doesnt need Scotland, actually it doesnt need Wales either, they can both bugger off.
Harsh? Yes it is but Ive spent the last 50 years of my life hearing how bad their lot is, how proud they are of being Scottish/Welsh but never telling us how proud they are to be British and the English taxpayer has wet nursed both countries with barely any gratitude or understanding of just how much of a # they would both be in without our money.
Free prescriptions? Free University Education? No problem, utter mugs like me, Johnny Englander will bank roll it.
Sod history, its the here and the now that matters.
You have your Parliaments, Scotland even has its own Judicial system, now go out and use them, stand on your own feet and live in the real World.
Dont assume that this is just about YOUR independence, Id personally like to have a vote, as many English people would as to whether or not WE want to keep the Union.
I wouldnt go assuming that we would.
Amen.

reply to post by Freeborn


Indeed, I have suggested that given the precident of Ulster when Eire voted for independance, there is a case for saying that if the people of the Northern Isles vote to remain in the UK, then they should be allowed to. After all, isn't this all about what the people want?

The Northern Isles never wanted to be part of Scotland before, why should they be forced to be so against their will a 2nd time?

reply to post by CarbonBase

I'm glad Scotland will be it's own country again.

You assume much Sir.

In fact all recent survey's suggest that if the referendum was to be held in the very near future then Scotland would vote against independance.

Of course not all survey's are an accurate reflection of overall voting intentions and much can change between now and when the vote is held, especially considering the amount of debate that will occur but I assure you nothing is a foregone conclusion - either way.

.....the fine people of Scotland are pretty damn'd independent anyway!

Of course there's a fair level of independance already, that was the general idea with devolving power to Holyrood.

reply to post by LFN69

Id personally like to have a vote, as many English people would as to whether or not WE want to keep the Union.
I wouldnt go assuming that we would.

Whilst I don't personally agree with this I do however fully understand why an increasing number of English feel exactly the same as you.

reply to post by AndyMayhew

After all, isn't this all about what the people want?

Allegedly.

And your point about Ulster and The Republic is quite astute and pertinent.

reply to post by Freeborn


That's why i'm still undecided until they tell us exactly what the plan is, if it involves joining the Euro currency then I will vote No. A lot of the problems for local industries especially fishing rights has been killed off by euro policy. I would rather they went the of Norway but keep the pound as the currency or at least have a Scottish pound that is linked with british pound.