Is it possible to be a Christian and a believer in Islam?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

Could a fallen angel have known that stuff likewise? Remember that was Muhammad's first reaction to the Shining one he encountered in the cave.

What do you mean a fallen angel?

Originally posted by DarknStormy

"And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it."
(The Qur'an, 51:47)

Muhammad borrowed everything from the Jews and Christians and Zoroastrians ....
That's where he got the stretching and expanding ...
This Qu'ran verse isn't new and isn't 'revelation'.
It had basically already been around for thousands of years.

[It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
- Isaiah 40:22

And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature [was] as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.
Ezekiel 1:22

Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I [am] the LORD that maketh all [things]; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Isaiah 44:24

etc etc etc .. 17 Verses from the Bible showing God stretching and expanding the Universe

"(We) then formed the drop into a clot and formed the clot into a lump and formed the lump into bones and clothed the bones in flesh; and then brought him into being as another creature. Blessed be God, the Best of Creators!"(The Qur'an, 23:140)

People miscarried throughout pregnancies.
People saw those and knew that humans grew in the womb like that.
It was common knowledge. That's not divine revelation.

"It is He Who created everything on the earth for you and then directed His attention up to heaven and arranged it into seven regular heavens. He has knowledge of all things."(The Qur'an, 2:29)

The bible has 'layers of heaven' - 2 Corinthians 12:2
Jeremiah, chapters seven and forty-four. [Jer. 7; Jer. 44) condemn the 'layers of heaven' belief.
I've read that the Archontics in the 7 layers of heaven.

7th Heaven

The notion of the seven Heavens appears in The Testament Of The Twelve Patriarchs and other Jewish apocrypha, and was familiar to the ancient Persians and Babylonians. The Persians pictured the Almighty as residing in the highest of the seven Heavens, "seated on a great white throne, surrounded by winged cherubim. ...

The ancient Egyptians believed that the soul was taken through the seven spheres of the planets to the Ogdoad, an eighth realm that lay above the lower heavens. This notion was preserved in later Gnostic cosmological schemes ..

More at the link. So once again .. Muhammad 'borrowed' from the Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, as well as the Summerians and Egyptians to come up with the WELL KNOWN stories about 7 layers of heaven. None of that came to him through revelation ... it came to him from many mundane sources and were commonly heard by people throughout thousands of years. I see nothing 'divine' in these Qu'ran stories.

Koran doesn't judge Christians..

Really??

And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers (3:85)

Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book [Christians and Jews] had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. (3:110)

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29)

Those who disbelieve from among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (98:6)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. (8:55)

He does not love the unbelievers (30:45)

Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger": But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith. (3:32)

etc etc

reply to post by adjensen

That's exactly what it says.

You think it says: "Do not call me good. There is no one good except God, and I am not God."

It actually says: "Why do you call me good? Only God is good, are you calling me God?"

Cite the exact scripture and then explain how it actually means Jesus said he was the God who approved of him.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Jesus couldn't of bounced between the spiritual and physical world. It defies logic. He was a human, other scriptures also say that.. The only one that depicts him as some bouncer between spiritual/physical realm is the bible and as we know, the bible has a lot of contradictions. So who is telling the truth and whos lying? You can use verses all you want but where is the physical evidence that anyone can bounce between worlds?

reply to post by FlyersFan

Muhammad borrowed everything from the Jews and Christians and Zoroastrians ....

It can also be said that those wrote the Bible borrowed everything from the Jews.... hijacked their concept of the messiah...... and presented him as God himself.

Christians, be warned.
You believe the anti-Christ would appear... a human who poses as God.... and here you are presenting an honored servant of God as God Himself.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by adjensen

 

That's exactly what it says.

You think it says: "Do not call me good. There is no one good except God, and I am not God."

It actually says: "Why do you call me good? Only God is good, are you calling me God?"

Cite the exact scripture and then explain how it actually means Jesus said he was the God who approved of him.

Huh? Who approved of who?

Good grief, Christ's divinity is the central tenet of Christianity, I have a hard time believing anyone in this day and age would actually need someone to cite scripture to understand that.

This is far afield from the OP's question, anyway, which is "Can a Christian believe in Islam?", not "Why do Christians believe Jesus is God?"

reply to post by adjensen

Huh? Who approved of who?

Good grief, Christ's divinity is the central tenet of Christianity, I have a hard time believing anyone in this day and age would actually need someone to cite scripture to understand that.

Not going to argue the tenets of Christianity in this thread.

I am referring to a certain verse where Jesus was called "good" and he responded by asking "why do you call me good"....

This is far afield from the OP's question, anyway, which is "Can a Christian believe in Islam?", not "Why do Christians believe Jesus is God?"

Yes. That is what the OP asks....

Christians who are monotheistic can believe in Islams message of monothiesm.
Christians who believe God is three and that God bore a son with a woman.... can never align themselves with Islam.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
I am referring to a certain verse where Jesus was called "good" and he responded by asking "why do you call me good"....

This?

A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone." (Luke 18:18-19 NIV)

Christians who believe God is three and that God bore a son with a woman.... can never align themselves with Islam.

That's the error that both you and the OP have made -- a person who does not believe in the divinity of Christ in the Trinity is not a Christian. They might be a "follower of Christ" or "Unitarian" or "Mormon" or whatever, but they are not a Christian, because a Christian believes that Christ was divine.

reply to post by adjensen

This?

Yes. That.
Jesus said "No one is good- except God alone." then it means God alone is good.
Jesus asked him why he calls him "good" when God alone is good..... meaning he is not God.
How did you interpret that to mean, Jesus is God, who alone is good?

That's the error that both you and the OP have made -- a person who does not believe in the divinity of Christ in the Trinity is not a Christian. They might be a "follower of Christ" or "Unitarian" or "Mormon" or whatever, but they are not a Christian, because a Christian believes that Christ was divine.

"because a Christian believes that Christ was divine."

Divine in what sense?
That Jesus was the God of the Old Testament, who later showed up as Jesus, the son of Mary?
That Jesus was a partner with God, as part of the trinity?
That Jesus was the "son" of God, born through his mother, Mary?

I'm sorry.... but what exactly is your position?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Its actually unbelievable because that one quote from the Bible proves that he isn't god.. If he was, he would of said thanks, I know I'm good, I am God.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
I'm sorry.... but what exactly is your position?

How can you be unaware of the Doctrine of the Trinity?

The Father is God.
The Son is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.
The Father is not the Son.
The Son is not the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is not the Father.
There is precisely one perfect and indivisible God

This has been one of the core tenets of Christianity since the Second Century. It is not defined in the Bible, but it is supported by it, and even a superficial study of early Jewish-Christian history would reveal that the first generation of Christians worshipped Christ as God.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

Its actually unbelievable because that one quote from the Bible proves that he isn't god.. If he was, he would of said thanks, I know I'm good, I am God.

You think that's what it says, because that's what you want it to say.

Here's the passage again, please underline the part where Jesus says either "I am not God" or "I am not good":

A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone." (Luke 18:18-19 NIV)

reply to post by SpiritofEnoch

speaking of monotheistic religions is something and speaking of people's behaviors is something else.
you are one of those people who have denied ignorance and reached to this point that regardless of what we believe in, we are all humans and we have only one God. we all have inner prophets that is nothing but our wisdom. our wisdom guides us to truth, to monotheism and to humanity.
MONOTHEISM is the base. as you may have seen in Koran, in Koran you can read :

Say, "O People of the Scripture (Christians and Jews), come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah ." But if they turn away, then say, "Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]." Koran 3:64

Allah has Aramaic (language of Jesus) roots for the name of God.
the surprising point is that Islam considers Jesus the disciples and even Abraham as muslims (submitting to Allah):

But when Jesus felt [persistence in] disbelief from them, he said, "Who are my supporters for [the cause of] Allah ?" The disciples said," We are supporters for Allah . We have believed in Allah and testify that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]. Koran 3:52

so Islam is not an enemy of Christianity or Judaism but it is criticizing some points Jesus is not God. however this is still an open issue in Christianity too.
Jesus is an alive Messiah for muslims. Muslims believe that he will unite Christians with Mahdi. Mahdi is Muslim's main divinely elected Messiahs who will start the defensive war against anti_christ (Dajal). when Mahdi captures Jerusalem and defeat the anti_christ then Jesus will return. and he will pray with Jesus in Jerusalem.
Mahdi wont start the Armageddon, this is anti_christ who will start that.
crusades are absurd. crusades are ego of corrupt clerics and elites. monotheistic religions want to guide us towards God. and they want to warn the humanity against the upcoming threats. the last days. humanity wont have any choice but unity and monotheistic religions and the Messiahs will bring this unity.
by the way Islam calls Enoch as Idrees.

And mention in the Book, Idrees. Indeed, he was a man of truth and a prophet. Koran 19:56

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
It can also be said that those wrote the Bible borrowed everything from the Jews.... hijacked their concept of the messiah...... and presented him as God himself.

A lot of what the Christians have came from the Jews. And a lot of that came from the Summerians and Egyptians. EVERYTHING that the Muslims have came from someone else. And who knows .. a thousand years from now someone will come along with a new religion and claim it's revelation, but it will infact be bits and pieces of what we have on earth now.

The point is .. none of those supposed 'scientific revelations' to Muhammad are actually revelations at all. They were around for thousands of years before Muhammad claimed to have his 'revelations'. All he did was rewrite old stories from a variety of sources and represent them as his own and as having gotten them via some messenger from God.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
Jesus couldn't of bounced between the spiritual and physical world. It defies logic.

When did I say .. or the bible say .. that he 'bounced between the spiritual and physical world'?? Seriously .. I don't remember saying that.

Scripture states that Jesus, the Word of God, came down from heaven and became man. He is fully human and fully God. Is that what you mean by 'bounced between the spiritual and physical world'?? That He came down from Heaven and was incarnated??

Or are you talking about the Trinity belief that Christians have. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. "Three persons" ... aspects ... of one God? With the Trinity God is in Heaven AND on earth at the same time. Separate and yet together. Like a clover leaf is three leaves and yet one leaf.

Really .. I don't know what you mean by 'bounced between the spiritual and physical world'.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
It can also be said that those wrote the Bible borrowed everything from the Jews.... hijacked their concept of the messiah...... and presented him as God himself.

A lot of what the Christians have came from the Jews. And a lot of that came from the Summerians and Egyptians. EVERYTHING that the Muslims have came from someone else. And who knows .. a thousand years from now someone will come along with a new religion and claim it's revelation, but it will infact be bits and pieces of what we have on earth now.

ALL monotheistic religions come from the Egyptians since the first monotheistic system was Akhenaten's.

Originally posted by adjensen

 

A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

I'm assuming thats where the certain ruler stops speaking?

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone." (Luke 18:18-19 NIV)

So Jesus asks why he calls him good and then goes on to say that "No one is good--except God alone." So if Jesus is God, why doesn't he just say "I know I'm good" or something along the lines?

reply to post by adjensen

You think that's what it says, because that's what you want it to say.

Here's the passage again, please underline the part where Jesus says either "I am not God" or "I am not good":

Please explain how you interpret Jesus' words "why do you call me good" as meaning "yes I am good".

reply to post by FlyersFan

A lot of what the Christians have came from the Jews. And a lot of that came from the Summerians and Egyptians. EVERYTHING that the Muslims have came from someone else. And who knows .. a thousand years from now someone will come along with a new religion and claim it's revelation, but it will infact be bits and pieces of what we have on earth now.

The point is .. none of those supposed 'scientific revelations' to Muhammad are actually revelations at all. They were around for thousands of years before Muhammad claimed to have his 'revelations'. All he did was rewrite old stories from a variety of sources and represent them as his own and as having gotten them via some messenger from God.

I am not talking about Mohammad or Islam. Like as if bringing up Mohammad magically refutes the point I was making.

It can also be said that those wrote the Bible borrowed everything from the Jews.... hijacked their concept of the messiah...... and presented him as God himself.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
So Jesus asks why he calls him good and then goes on to say that "No one is good--except God alone." So if Jesus is God, why doesn't he just say "I know I'm good" or something along the lines?

Probably because on occasions when he did say such things, he got something of an icy reception, lol.

"Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. (John 8:56-59 NIV)

Can't really blame him for hinting around, when saying flat out that he was God resulted in those around him planning on stoning him.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by adjensen

 

You think that's what it says, because that's what you want it to say.

Here's the passage again, please underline the part where Jesus says either "I am not God" or "I am not good":

Please explain how you interpret Jesus' words "why do you call me good" as meaning "yes I am good".

Try not to answer a question with a question, m-kay? I will repeat -- Here's the passage again, please underline the part where Jesus says either "I am not God" or "I am not good".

If it doesn't state the negative, then the positive may be inferred, even if it is not explicit.