"That's the beauty about Free Will..."

reply to post by AfterInfinity

There was nothing in the beginning but "God".

Your post implies "God" lacks control. That's a no-no.

According to what, or who?
You keep making this sort of statement without quoting or citing any source.
No one has to accept those as a given, just because you say so.
If you are talking about these as established facts within Christian theology, then quote the Bible or some other church authority.
I don't accept those premise and the people around when the New Testament was written didn't either, from what I have been able to gather.
People back then were actually more advanced then we are today in philosophy and had thought these things through and rejected any sort of simplistic answers like you are trying to put out.

Originally posted by slugger9787
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

I was being facetous
about reincarnation.

"REINCARNATION"
You understood the word well enough to reply and being so self confident could jest about it. What basis or belief system is your self determined existance invested in/upon? Expose yourself to ridicule Facetous One. A Slugger is the wild swinging hopeful of a home run connect; never a team player (that to advance base runners). So, you are a fan of large burrowing rodents?

reply to post by jmdewey60

According to what, or who?
You keep making this sort of statement without quoting or citing any source.

Any Christian I talk to. And I talk to quite a lot of them. Very nice people - we don't always agree, but it makes for genuine conversation instead of beer, cars, and women.

And they all say that "God" is all-powerful. This means total control. You name it, he controls it. Except for us, of course. But as I have explained in this post, and this post as well, he can even control us. And we would never know. We pretend to have so much power in such a relationship...but we don't. If such a relationship truly exists, we are utterly helpless. Which is why we have to believe he is loving, because otherwise, we are totally and utterly screwed. And we know it.

For a species so bent upon having control over our own lives, we have set a stellar standard for hipocracy by worshipping the greatest dictator in the history of the world.

No one has to accept those as a given, just because you say so.
If you are talking about these as established facts within Christian theology, then quote the Bible or some other church authority.

I already have.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I don't know why you have refused to accept these quotes, as they come directly from the Bible. The person I was replying to in the post you questioned made a claim based on a very specific deity - hence, my argument. For the sake of discussion, we are giving that deity plausibility and then challenging that plausibility to see if the deity deserves the benefit of the doubt. So far, it's looking like a negative.

I don't accept those premise and the people around when the New Testament was written didn't either, from what I have been able to gather.
People back then were actually more advanced then we are today in philosophy and had thought these things through and rejected any sort of simplistic answers like you are trying to put out.

If that is true, then please source some type of scientific authority on the subject. Compared to us, those people were simple superstitious farmers with about the same critical thinking skills as the average dog.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

. . . they all say that "God" is all-powerful.

Well, maybe what you should do instead of saying their belief means God is evil, you should point out that their belief is based on some sort of bogus propaganda rather than the Bible, or any sort of long-held (2,000 years at least) philosophy.

I don't know why you have refused to accept these quotes, as they come directly from the Bible.

None of them say what you are claiming as fact, to launch your attacks from by implication.

. . . source some type of scientific authority on the subject.

You could read the writings of Gregory of Nazianzus. Wikipedia says of him:
"As a classically trained orator and philosopher he infused Hellenism into the early church, establishing the paradigm of Byzantine theologians and church officials."
Here was a Christian Bishop held up as the church's highest theologian who was also a trained Greek philosopher who accepted much of what was classically held as science concerning the wold and the universe, that for one thing never accepted the idea of an all-powerful god.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Well, maybe what you should do instead of saying their belief means God is evil, you should point out that their belief is based on some sort of bogus propaganda rather than the Bible, or any sort of long-held (2,000 years at least) philosophy.

I can't really do that when I've already posted scripture claiming that "God" is all-powerful. Walk up to a Christian and tell them that their ultimate spiritual authority is a lie? Right.

None of then say what you are claiming as fact, to launch your attacks from by implication.

We're not talking fact, we're talking scripture. You asked for scriptural evidence, and I gave it to you. Just because you're not willing to accept it, doesn't make the scripture any less real among those who do accept it. I believe that, when you ask for scriptural evidence, the legitimacy of such scripture is a given. This discussion concerns beliefs.

If we want to discuss facts, then free will is not the topic to introduce.

You could read the writings of Gregory of Nazianzus. Wikipedia says of him:
"As a classically trained orator and philosopher he infused Hellenism into the early church, establishing the paradigm of Byzantine theologians and church officials."
Here was a Christian Bishop held up as the church's highest theologian who was also a trained Greek philosopher who accepted much of what was classically held as science concerning the wold and the universe, that for one thing never accepted the idea of an all-powerful god.

He contributed to the Trinitarian concept, which essentially states that "God" is composed of three beings which are distinct to one another but form a union in relation to all else.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

We're not talking fact, we're talking scripture. You asked for scriptural evidence, and I gave it to you. Just because you're not willing to accept it, doesn't make the scripture any less real among those who do accept it.

I'm not getting into "real" or not, but what it actually says, and what those verses say do not support your premise.
If you think that they do then rather than list a bunch of verses, make as commentary for each one, something to explain how they say what would be adding support to your argument.
All you are doing is throwing up a bunch of stuff and saying it supports you.
OK, then how do they?

reply to post by jmdewey60

I'm not getting into "real" or not, but what it actually says, and what those verses say do not support your premise.
If you think that they do then rather than list a bunch of verses, make as commentary for each one, something to explain how they say what would be adding support to your argument.
All you are doing is throwing up a bunch of stuff and saying it supports you.
OK, then how do they?

I made a statement that the Judaic god is generally regarded as being all-powerful. You contested that assertion, asking for supporting evidence. I then posted scriptural evidence proclaiming the power of this deity. I am not defending the validity of the claim, but rather the validity of my assertion that others do believe in it.

Also, refer back to my previous post. I added to it.