Facts we know of the new pope

What a horrid choice for a title.

This isn't a thread about facts, it's just a bunch of "firsts" you wanna pull out to try to draw something up. Then you're attempt at adding convenient numbers to get it to seem like something special you're "discovering."

Here is another fact I just came across about the new pope, not that it means anything, it is just interesting - apparently he has only one lung.

Single lung not likely to hinder new pope, doc says

Originally posted by TravisBickle451
What a horrid choice for a title.

This isn't a thread about facts, it's just a bunch of "firsts" you wanna pull out to try to draw something up. Then you're attempt at adding convenient numbers to get it to seem like something special you're "discovering."

ATS has title critics now? Nice attempt at being relevant.... try again.

The only problem with the OP is that Popes do choose their own title.

Other than that...

I think the real story here is that there is now a Jesuit Pope... and if you asked a Jesuit yesterday if there would ever be a Jesuit Pope you would have been told 'no'.

Jesuits take a 4th vow which in essence makes them 'ineligible' for any Church office. They are sworn to 'obey' not give orders.

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
reply to post by DISRAELI

 

He was the first to use the title francis.

Or maybe it could mean " the first" in a new order of things?
As in starting over from the top.

reply to post by On the Edge

I've just had a fresh thought.
I've been grumbling all evening about the unnecessary use of "the first" in the Pope's title.
But what if it is a deliberate smack in the eye for those who thought he would be "the last"?

reply to post by TravisBickle451


Convenient?

I never said any conspiracy was involved. Just stated a peculiarity.

3/13/13 7:06(13) he's 76 years old.(13 again)

That is fact. No?

reply to post by Blarneystoner


So are you saying that you think the new Pope will be secretly taking orders from some other character? Perhaps that is not implied and I am incorrect. If so who do you think he might be taking orders from?

Didn't Saint Francis clean house in the Church in his time?

Could they have found a pope from farther away from the Vatican?

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
reply to post by TravisBickle451

 

Convenient?

3/13/13 7:06(13) he's 76 years old.(13 again)

That is fact. No?

Convenient as in you sort and choose what you want in order to get something nice and neat so that it looks like something special.

Why not the temperature?
If that's the time, is that official and accurate?
Why not include the seconds in the time or use the 24-hour clock?
For the age, why not include day/month/year?
Why not convert letters into numbers and make his name equal something?

Convenient!

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
reply to post by DISRAELI

 

He was the first to pick a title that wasn't already used before.

Uhm...no he wasn't. We recently had John Paul I, the predecessor to John Paul II

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by On the Edge

 

I've just had a fresh thought.
I've been grumbling all evening about the unnecessary use of "the first" in the Pope's title.
But what if it is a deliberate smack in the eye for those who thought he would be "the last"?

edit on 13-3-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

That's funny, Disraeli!

There's so much "theater" surrounding this subject.

What are the Jesuit vows?

Do they conflict with being pope?

Didn't swear to obey the supreme general of the Jesuit order.

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
What are the Jesuit vows?

Do they conflict with being pope?

Didn't swear to obey the supreme general of the Jesuit order.

"We always had a very special relationship with the pope. Unlike any other religious order, Jesuits take a vow of obedience to the pope to go anywhere where we are needed."

Pope 's name may connect to Jesuit roots - not Francis of Assisi

Francis is the first Jesuit and the first from the Americas to be elected Pope. He is the first non-European pope since Syrian-born Pope Gregory III, who served for ten years (731–741).

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by ipsedixit
Interesting choice of name.

It sounds like an attempt to reach out since, if anyone in the Church are entitled to be called the "Un-Jesuits" it would have to be the Franciscans.

The chauvinistic choice would be Pope Ignatius.

Another x-Catholic at the center here told me that he was probably naming himself after the Jesuit, St. Francis Xavier, a widely travelled missionary to the Far East, whose remains rest in Goa, India.

edit on 13-3-2013 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)

Marquette University President Father Scott Pilarz, a Jesuit like the new pope, noted Wednesday that one of the greatest Jesuit saints was Francis Xavier. Pilarz said Francis Xavier was a friend of the Jesuit founder, Ignatius Loyola

Pope's name may connect to Jesuit roots - not Francis of Assisi

this pope conspiracy stuff should be over in a few days... or will it?

EVERY Pope in the history of the church who has "I" after his name was choosing a name which had not been used before. That includes; Sylvester 1- A.D. 314 Julius I- 337 Damasus I- 366 I have the Cambridge Medieval history in front of me. If you're not convinced, it would be easy enough to name a couple of dozen others. The most recent, and obvious example, was John Paul I, a combination not known previously..

reply to post by DISRAELI


as far as i know John Paul the first was just known as John Paul until John Paul II became Pope.



ps. since this is my first post on ATS, greetings to everyone

Text from article linked below:

Bergoglio, 76, reportedly got the second-most votes after Joseph Ratzinger in the 2005 papal election, and
he has long specialized in the kind of pastoral work that some say is an essential skill for the next pope. In a lifetime of teaching and leading priests in Latin America, which has the largest share of the world's Catholics, Bergoglio has shown a keen political sensibility as well as the kind of self-effacing humility that fellow cardinals value highly, says his official biographer, Sergio Rubin.

Bergoglio would likely encourage the church's 400,000 priests to hit the streets to capture more souls, Rubin said in an Associated Press interview. He is also most comfortable taking a low profile, and his personal style is the antithesis of Vatican splendor. "It's a very curious thing: When bishops meet, he always wants to sit in the back rows. This sense of humility is very well seen in Rome," Rubin said.

Bergoglio has slowed a bit with age and is feeling the effects of having a lung removed due to infection when he was a teenager—two strikes against him at a time when many Vatican-watchers say the next pope should be relatively young and strong. "But he's going to be very influential in the congress of cardinals, one of those who is most listened to," Rubin said.
Bergoglio couldn't prevent Argentina from becoming the first Latin American country to legalize gay marriage, or stop its president, Cristina Fernandez, from promoting free contraception and artificial insemination. When Bergoglio argued that gay adoptions discriminate against children, Fernandez compared his tone to "medieval times and the Inquisition."

This kind of demonization is unfair, says Rubin, who wrote Bergoglio's authorized biography, "The Jesuit."

"Is Bergoglio a progressive—a liberation theologist even? No. He's no third-world priest. Does he criticize the International Monetary Fund, and neoliberalism? Yes. Does he spend a great deal of time in the slums? Yes," Rubin said.

Critics also accuse him of failing to stand up publicly against the country's military dictatorship from 1976-1983, when victims and their relatives often brought first-hand accounts of torture, death and kidnappings to the priests he supervised as leader of the Jesuit Order in Argentina

Like other Jesuit intellectuals, Bergoglio has focused on social outreach. Catholics are still buzzing over his speech last year accusing fellow church officials of hypocrisy for forgetting that Jesus Christ bathed lepers and ate with prostitutes.

"In our ecclesiastical region there are priests who don't baptize the children of single mothers because they weren't conceived in the sanctity of marriage," Bergoglio told his priests. "These are today's hypocrites. Those who clericalize the Church. Those who separate the people of God from salvation. And this poor girl who, rather than returning the child to sender, had the courage to carry it into the world, must wander from parish to parish so that it's baptized!"

Bergoglio compared this concept of Catholicism to the Pharisees of Christ's time: people who congratulate themselves while condemning others.

"Jesus teaches us another way: Go out. Go out and share your testimony, go out and interact with your brothers, go out and share, go out and ask. Become the Word in body as well as spirit,"

Bergoglio said.
article about Bergoglio

First: First time a pope has said the Malvinas are ours!!!

First: First time I correct a pope .... The islands are called the "Falkland Islands" and
they are a British overseas colony.

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman


Ahem, excuse me....gents.....did I read that he is not a lover of women?...because you see, there's a verse in the Scripture about that.... about the false prophet, maybe....

Originally posted by rigel4
First: First time a pope has said the Malvinas are ours!!!

First: First time I correct a pope .... The islands are called the "Falkland Islands" and
they are a British overseas colony.

edit on 13-3-2013 by rigel4 because: (no reason given)

The islands are called Falkland by England and Malvinas by Latin-american countries.
Either way is ok.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by On the Edge

 

I've just had a fresh thought.
I've been grumbling all evening about the unnecessary use of "the first" in the Pope's title.
But what if it is a deliberate smack in the eye for those who thought he would be "the last"?

edit on 13-3-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

I agree - from materialistic pov, I believe this Pope will be the last. Here are the reasons:

1) This Pope will be presiding over an institution that is on a verge of anarchy. The powerful Curia (the Elites) vs the Standard Bearers (of tradition - the Jesuits).

2) The scandal know as Vatileaks is widening.

3) Governmental Authorities all over the world - due to worsening economic situation - have now turned their attention towards Vatican "treasures".

4) This Pope (and past) along with bishops/cardinals/priests are more social/political in their dealings. Many realistically view them corrupt as politicians. And once the secrets are fully exposed - many will stay away as far away as possible from them.

5) Ongoing/growing investigations and lawsuits.

6) Their clout and influence on the masses is no longer there. These translate to less monetary coming in.

7) Corrupt business dealings are now slowly being exposed. Once fully exposed, many especially the "bankers" will distance themselves from them.

8) Only the old generation - which is now dwindling at an alarming rate - are the ones who seem to remain faithful to traditions. The new generation Catholics have no real loyalty to their faith. It's just a facade, once the secrets are fully exposed they will abandon the "church". Many if not all new generation Catholics are more liberal in their view of things: i.e. contraception/homosexuality.

9) Outside forces - i.e. Islam gaining foothold in lands where the RCC once hold sway.

10) Age. At 76 - the few issues noted above are very daunting and exhausting to resolve nor overcome. One reason why - Pope Benedict resigned.

But there's more...

...of which the spiritual side is the death knell.


just my 10 cents.

reply to post by TravisBickle451

3/13/13 7:06(13) he's 76 years old.(13 again)

the date was one of the first things that came to my mind when i heard of the new pope, but when i heard that it was 7:06 vatican time, i thought once again, that there are no coincidences

when i googled him, i was kind of shocked that he not only supported the military dictatorship in argentinia in the late 70s and early 80´s but also was said to be involved in the kidnappings of at least Orlando Yorio and Franz Yalics. two jesuits who he denounced while they were not around. (at least one of them fled to germany). and maybe the killings of many more. but we don´t know that for sure. what we know is that he was way to friendly with a dictator, who killed tens of thousands of people

What a nice candidate for a knew pope!

If you (or at least i) think about this, this guy would be a good candidate to fulfil St. Malachy`s prophecy of the last pope