ATS Exclusive - Turkey UFO Incident - New Details - A Fresh Look At The Kumburgaz Case 2007 to 2009

reply to post by CigaretteMan


Please provide this evidence. I have looked but can't find it. What video shows this thing doing anything but sit there? Is there video of this "object" moving across the sky? Where does it go during the day? Is cloaked when the sun comes up? 28 days worth of video? So there must something else this thing does.

I don't understand your reasoning. What I hear is that since there is not a 100% match to a boat, that it can't possibly be a boat. In other words, since there is no definitive "proof" this is a boat, you think it remains undebunked. I think that is unreasonable.

What has been presented is a reasonable explanation that it's a boat. So what we have is a likelihood of this being a boat as opposed to flying object. there has been no reasonable evidence that this is a flying object. Please provide this evidence.

Originally posted by CigaretteMan
Here is a video that is decent quality (not hi-def) but decent.

It is from June 16, 2008 I think.
and after that
It has video from May 17, 2009

You would never be a film maker if you think that's decent quality

Guess what there never will be any hi-def, it was filmed with a Mini DV camcorder NTSC type spec for that is
60Hz ("NTSC" 525/60) 720x480, 29.97fps interlace (aka 480i) not HD never will be.

Video Resolutions

Added to that 100x digital zoom & a teleconverter equals poor quality footage plus the simple fact that the camera has a Recommended illumination :More than 100 lux if lower than that quality suffers yet again.

To give you an idea Building corridors can be lit adequately at around 100 lux .

I would love to see real evidence of a ufo that's why I joined here and if I saw something I thought was the real deal I would back it BUT if you guys are happy with quality like that you will never see one!!!

Originally posted by flexy123
I stand with my assessment of this case highly suspicious for reasons I explained earlier.

There is simply no way that any type of craft (including a yacht, if we consider this as a "natural" explanation) would always be in one specific angle towards the camera/observer. (If you look at the lights).

I don’t think the boat hypothesis is credible either, be it ‘miraged’ or not. However I beg to differ on a straight line approach. A friend of mine had a penthouse in Blackrock, (just south of Dublin) and near Dun Laoghaire harbour. He had a telescope looking out to sea, and you could view the Seacat ferry coming in head on for miles and miles, absolutely no deviation off course at all.
My first thoughts when I first saw those videos, was that the ‘object’ was simply a model hung up or whatever, maybe swinging back and forth slowly, and that the lights at sea were something unrelated, so always something tangible, and so as the Turkish experts and Dr Leir and the enhancements could say that of the videos. The enhancements themselves are of two or more points of light that are at the front of the ‘object’ and that are in the videos, and it is true as ArMaps says, that the end process could be/would be somewhat corrupted. Ultimately though, that makes the the videoman extremely imaginative as to how he ‘faked’ and as to how others would use it, or play on it.

Originally posted by wmd_2008

Originally posted by CigaretteMan
Here is a video that is decent quality (not hi-def) but decent.

It is from June 16, 2008 I think.
and after that
It has video from May 17, 2009

You would never be a film maker if you think that's decent quality

Guess what there never will be any hi-def, it was filmed with a Mini DV camcorder NTSC type spec for that is
60Hz ("NTSC" 525/60) 720x480, 29.97fps interlace (aka 480i) not HD never will be.

Video Resolutions

Added to that 100x digital zoom & a teleconverter equals poor quality footage plus the simple fact that the camera has a Recommended illumination :More than 100 lux if lower than that quality suffers yet again.

To give you an idea Building corridors can be lit adequately at around 100 lux .

I would love to see real evidence of a ufo that's why I joined here and if I saw something I thought was the real deal I would back it BUT if you guys are happy with quality like that you will never see one!!!

edit on 14-3-2013 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)

I was not inferring that it was hi-def or excellent quality. I said it is better quality than any of the other Turkey UFO videos posted to you Youtube. Like I said nothing can be done to verify the videos 100% authentic unless someone examines the cassette.

We can have a better conversation if you stop attacking everyone.
Its probably the best quality of the collection of Turkey UFO videos.

Because I am an objective observer and not a gullible believer
I am going to mention several things I have considered so far when looking at this case.

Speculations:

It could be: (not that I think it is" but hypothesis

1. A hologram
2. A balloon and alien prop cleverly set up in the dark of night to hide the string and boat underneath it.
3. A government operation cleverly set up for psychhological operations.

I can't think of anymore at this time but its good to speculate.

Originally posted by CigaretteMan
Because I am an objective observer and not a gullible believer
I am going to mention several things I have considered so far when looking at this case.

Speculations:

It could be: (not that I think it is" but hypothesis

1. A hologram
2. A balloon and alien prop cleverly set up in the dark of night to hide the string and boat underneath it.
3. A government operation cleverly set up for psychhological operations.

I can't think of anymore at this time but its good to speculate.

Just curious why you would reject a mirage but entertain a hologram? Examples of mirages have been presented that seem reasonable. Do you have any examples of holograms over the ocean that we can compare?

Not sure I understand how it could be an alien prop balloon thing. Nothing about it looks alien to me.

What reason would a government want to conduct psychological operations in this manner? It would be far more likely to be hoax by the villagers.

I just find it odd that your hypotheses are all things that are not known to exist or are a bit of a stretch.

Do i think the videos are fake ?...NO
Can i absolutely without any doubt say its this or that ?...NO

But what i can say it sits there doing nothing in ALL the videos not only that we are not even sure were looking at the same object on the different date and times (friggin unlikely)

These UFO videos are embarassing bring back 'UFO entering Popocatépetl volcanoe' and 'UFOs in Denver' all is forgiven atleast those things move for heavens sake

The best UFO footage in recent times..are you guys serious ?

RUBBISH

Originally posted by CigaretteMan
Because I am an objective observer and not a gullible believer
I am going to mention several things I have considered so far when looking at this case.

Speculations:

It could be: (not that I think it is" but hypothesis

1. A hologram
2. A balloon and alien prop cleverly set up in the dark of night to hide the string and boat underneath it.
3. A government operation cleverly set up for psychhological operations.

I can't think of anymore at this time but its good to speculate.

My first thought was a balloon, but after brightening up some of the photos I am pretty sure that isn't the case.
It's a shame someone didn't have a decent telescope with a camera and some fast film. I know that digital cameras can play tricks at extreme zooms, but I don't think that is the case either, unless you are talking about the alien heads.

I consider myself to be an "alien life" enthusiast. I try to remain skeptical, even though I am a so-called "believer".

But my beliefs are based more on mathematics (odds), than on any video or photographic evidence. But, there are a few out of the 100's, possibly 1000's of videos I've seen that are very intriguing and even convincing.

This is NOT one of them.... not even close.

This is the object on 5-15-09
4:59 AM and 5:27 AM

The two of them combined to compare the shape.

In the history of UFOs they have been frequently reported going in and out of visibility. When they change some sort of configuration they can look like a "light plasma" or a "solid object"

It could be that this object is able to appear like orange fireballs at times.

Originally posted by CigaretteMan

This is the object on 5-15-09
4:59 AM and 5:27 AM

The two of them combined to compare the shape.

In the history of UFOs they have been frequently reported going in and out of visibility. When they change some sort of configuration they can look like a "light plasma" or a "solid object"

It could be that this object is able to appear like orange fireballs at times.

edit on 14-3-2013 by CigaretteMan because: (no reason given)

This shows none of the characteristics of a classic UFO. Classic UFOs are typically reported to be extremely fast and able to out perform any known earth made vehicle. This thing does less than our worst helicopter..

Can you point me in the direction of where the footage is of the military planes trying to intercept this thing. It doesn't move so an attempt to intercept it must have been made. Why wouldn't civilians hop on a boat and get a closer look? I would have.

Why is this this the only spot where it was seen? There must be witnesses from other vantage points or was the psychological warfare waged on just the villagers from this one area?

reply to post by ZetaRediculian


UFOs in real life do not behave like the ones you watched in Sci-Fi movies. Just a tip for you to not expect Sci-Fi style effects in real life.

Furthermore I am preparing several more posts that will show the object moving.

This will finally put to bed the argument that the object doesn't move. It does

stay tuned

Above from my comments earlier (which, for me, clearly debunk this case).....I think it' saddening to see people saying "this is the best UFO case" and "the skeptics have nothing" based on a video WHERE NO ONE CAN EVEN SAY WHAT IT IS.

If a fricking meteor falls down in Russia, we get hours of HD video footage, but this..is at best...some suspicious lights and some blurry shape a ten year old could fake with a camcorder filming an object in the backyard.

Aside from that (and the inconsistencies I pointed out earlier)..there is nothing "UFO like" in terms of movement, in fact the UFO doesn't seem to move at all. It just "sits there" and lets itself filmed for hours on end, and even then, even after allegedly several years of filming the object, it's still just a blurry thing where people need to debate on a forum what it actually is

reply to post by CigaretteMan


After looking at one of the videos I decided to check out something we have the time an date on screen we have his location and we have the Moon in view.

So I fired up Stellarium , went to his location changed the date and time and had a look at the Moon.The frame from the video shows 17th May 2009 time 3.07 am and indeed the Moon was visible from his location at that time and date. Still frame from 4:46 on the video.

Video


Still frame from 4:46 on the video.


The only thing is JUPITER was also visible and near the Moon and should have shown up as well in his video. Here is a screen capture from Stellarium.



Even at my location nearly 1900 miles away and further North from his the Moon & Jupiter were visible at that time and date just above the horizon.

Now basically that shows we cannot trust the time and date on his recordings so what else could be wrong

reply to post by CigaretteMan

It could be: (not that I think it is" but hypothesis
1. A hologram
2. A balloon and alien prop cleverly set up in the dark of night to hide the string and boat underneath it.
3. A government operation cleverly set up for psychhological operations.

You're willing to entertain the above unlikely scenarios but not the more likely one that its a boat...why ?
Given that its on (or above) water surely the boat explanation has to be more likely than option 1,2 or 3 .

I agree with ArMaP , time to show the videos .

Originally posted by CigaretteMan

We can have a better conversation if you stop attacking everyone.
Its probably the best quality of the collection of Turkey UFO videos.

edit on 14-3-2013 by CigaretteMan because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-3-2013 by CigaretteMan because: (no reason given)

Attacking everyone you need to develop a thicker skin then, Your on a forum were you put up your ideas but not everyone is going to agree, people will put up counter arguments if you can't except that there are other sites on the net were every member will agree with every point you make ,pat you on the back and give you a gold star but that would be really boring don't you think.

Like I said I would really like to see the real deal and if I thought it was and could use my knowledge of 30+ years of photography to back it I would in the same respect when I see flaws and false assumptions I will point them out.

That's why I pointed out it not a hi-def recording , digital zoom is also bad so are teleconvertors and auto focus at night is a problem as you can see on the video as it hunts for focus, I have a DSLR with a sensor that resolution wise and working in low light is way better than what his camera could do and if I was in his position now with a decent telephoto lens at night I would manual focus for a once in a lifetime shot!

Originally posted by CigaretteMan
reply to post by ZetaRediculian

 

UFOs in real life do not behave like the ones you watched in Sci-Fi movies. Just a tip for you to not expect Sci-Fi style effects in real life.

Furthermore I am preparing several more posts that will show the object moving.

This will finally put to bed the argument that the object doesn't move. It does

stay tuned

edit on 15-3-2013 by CigaretteMan because: (no reason given)

I'm talking about the ones historically described by people, captured on radar, studied by the gov't, etc. for the last 60 years. This does not have any of those characteristics. Surely you are familiar with those really "good" cases. This does not belong in that category. This more resembles the Brady Bunch episode where Greg hoaxes a UFO and fools Bobby and Peter.

Originally posted by CigaretteMan
reply to post by ZetaRediculian

 

UFOs in real life do not behave like the ones you watched in Sci-Fi movies. Just a tip for you to not expect Sci-Fi style effects in real life.

In this case I beg to differ.

Originally posted by CigaretteMan
Because I am an objective observer and not a gullible believer
I am going to mention several things I have considered so far when looking at this case.

Speculations:

It could be: (not that I think it is" but hypothesis

1. A hologram
2. A balloon and alien prop cleverly set up in the dark of night to hide the string and boat underneath it.
3. A government operation cleverly set up for psychhological operations.

I can't think of anymore at this time but its good to speculate.

4: A Martian vehicle from George Pal's WOTW.

Clearly the most likely explanation requiring the least number of wild assumptions.