No mind without faith.

reply to post by Angle


No, I do not believe in faith. I have faith, but I have no misconception that the things I have faith in, and the things which are real, overlap.

I have faith in an afterlife. I do not have evidence of an afterlife.
I have faith in deity. I do not have evidence of deity.
I have faith in spirit-matter. I do not have evidence of spirit-matter.

I have evidence of medicine. I do not need faith in medicine.
I have evidence of evolution. I do not need faith in evolution.
I have evidence of our planet's orbit around the sun. I do not need faith in it.

Do you see the difference in the two sets above? I make no mistake in thinking that the places where I put faith are in the realm of reality. Just as I do not mistaken something with real, tangible proof, as something which I should put faith in.


reply to post by AfterInfinity


I like that, well-worded. Have a star!

~ Wandering Scribe

Would having faith in things which are unreal? be wrong, or is like lying to oneself? WHAT IF, having faith in these things which 'seem' to be unreal, really is the trigger for these things to become reality?

reply to post by Angle


There are two billion (and counting) Christians on the surface of the Earth. They all have faith in the divinity of Jesus Christ, and the reality of YHVH, the Lord God. Yet, there is no tangible, physical, empirical evidence to prove that Jesus or YHVH existed, exist, or will ever exist. Having faith in something does not make it real. Faith is a tool of comfort, one which helps us feel better about the things we just don't understand.

Now, that's not necessarily wrong.

If I have faith in my own deity/deities, and I do nothing to try to make you accept them as well, then my faith is personal, and OK. If I try to make you accept the same deity/deities that I have faith in, then we arrive at a problem. I am attempting to make you accept something which I have no evidence or proof for. That is wrong. I am telling you to believe in what amounts to a lie.

If I can present you with data and evidence of a testable, repeatable nature, well, then you should accept what I say, because it is no longer based on faith, but is now based on hard science, and can be tested anywhere, by anyone, with the same result.

~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by Angle

 

I actually can hold more than one visual perception, and even audible perception, in my mind at any given time, yes. It was something I spent my childhood teaching myself to do. I can have two internal-monologues simultaneously, or completely clear my head in a meditative style at will. Having faith has nothing to do with that, though. To have faith in something means you believe, or accept it, without evidence of proof.

~ Wandering Scribe

Faith is faith based period, nothing else if not a learned function from surrounding influences. You have more than just two inner diologes simouslaniously, 100s actually, and they are all you telling you the ups or downsides to whatever question or answer you are focused on in one brilliant conclusion, the one you chose to enact. Slide this in: Dreams are reality, they also play a part in ones ever expanding consciousness one youd never experience in this movie scripted world.

Originally posted by Angle
Would having faith in things which are unreal? be wrong, or is like lying to oneself? WHAT IF, having faith in these things which 'seem' to be unreal, really is the trigger for these things to become reality?

That is the way it is supposed to work. Why it doesnt is beyond me; its not a faith based manefestation. It is more a simple believing in a process that will work, and having no doubt. Perhaps people whom claim to have Faith in first of all WHAT, secondly are only half hearted about it. Doubt is very powerful and can waylay the best of intentions.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by Angle
Would having faith in things which are unreal? be wrong, or is like lying to oneself? WHAT IF, having faith in these things which 'seem' to be unreal, really is the trigger for these things to become reality?

That is the way it is supposed to work. Why it doesnt is beyond me; its not a faith based manefestation. It is more a simple believing in a process that will work, and having no doubt. Perhaps people whom claim to have Faith in first of all WHAT, secondly are only half hearted about it. Doubt is very powerful and can waylay the best of intentions.

Ditto...and doubt being the mechanism (not intended for this purpose - but an axe also cuts the veges, clever, that!)...acts as a trip-up, self-imposed...handicap in the process...complete with 'unintended' and distracting results...or more doubts, if not 'servo-mechanismically' corrected...faith in WHAT & HOW...
Not exactly circular in nature...and not altogether connected for that purpose, but, manipulable cross-purpose-wise...

A99

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by Angle
Would having faith in things which are unreal? be wrong, or is like lying to oneself? WHAT IF, having faith in these things which 'seem' to be unreal, really is the trigger for these things to become reality?

That is the way it is supposed to work. Why it doesnt is beyond me; its not a faith based manefestation. It is more a simple believing in a process that will work, and having no doubt. Perhaps people whom claim to have Faith in first of all WHAT, secondly are only half hearted about it. Doubt is very powerful and can waylay the best of intentions.

Ditto...and doubt being the mechanism (not intended for this purpose - but an axe also cuts the veges, clever, that!)...acts as a trip-up, self-imposed...handicap in the process...complete with 'unintended' and distracting results...or more doubts, if not 'servo-mechanismically' corrected...faith in WHAT & HOW...
Not exactly circular in nature...and not altogether connected for that purpose, but, manipulable cross-purpose-wise...

A99

So following the logic; Faith has absconded, or relegates itself to being the chocolate cake won during the cakewalk, or as an identifying name written on the seat of one of the musical chairs-All apply: "Doubt" "Faith" "Bumpkin" "Stooge" "Redemption" 'Pluralism" "Moral Turpitude" "Coniver" "Self Deceit" "Intent Pure". That as you call the AXE describes it, accidental/unintended forward motion into an abyss one designed for itself because that is the nature of Soul Growth it HAS TO INCLUDE THE UNEXPECTED trip ups.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


"So following the logic; Faith has absconded, or relegates itself to being the chocolate cake won during the cakewalk, or as an identifying name written on the seat of one of the musical chairs-All apply: "Doubt" "Faith" "Bumpkin" "Stooge" "Redemption" 'Pluralism" "Moral Turpitude" "Coniver" "Self Deceit" "Intent Pure". That as you call the AXE describes it, accidental/unintended forward motion into an abyss one designed for itself because that is the nature of Soul Growth it HAS TO INCLUDE THE UNEXPECTED trip ups." QUOTE VHB

Yep...precisement...anything else would be 'coersive' (faith, essentially, being a one-man show)...dynamically self-correcting like a missile to its target, zig-zagging with shisho...utilising the negative to describe the positive by deduction (a shallow illustration, but y'all get the point)...doubtful of, faithful of, stooged by, redeemed by, plural in relation to, morals vis-a-vis another, conniving to, SELF deceptive, intent pure towards...'playbook'-fashion, they rely on at least one subject...but another can be made up ...'trip-ups' when your faith wanders (paradoxically, the unexpected becomes part of the film)...

Faith, not so much absconded...but tested on the arena of subjective experience - all mind made up by unitary souls, to ultimately advance the group, the planet, the sector, etc...(tug of war, rowing crew...dependant on the input of all in unison - of faith)...

A99

There often are exceptions of the rule. What if faith can alter exceptions of rules. These rules seem to be transcended then.

The mystical bible says: "With God, anything is possible."

Something like: No rules, or God is above rules.

Aren't rules restricting?

reply to post by Angle

There often are exceptions of the rule. What if faith can alter exceptions of rules. These rules seem to be transcended then.

That's like saying, "If I imagine that I am free of gravity's constraints, I'll be able to fly."

There's a difference between imagination and faith. Faith would one make able to fly with constraints of gravity.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Faith, as a term, is the belief in a thing without evidence for it's reality. So to say that faith is faith-based is the exact same thing. I think you just don't like acknowledging that it has no solid basis in reality. Which is a personal fault of your own (or the OPs). But you cannot escape that the things you truly have faith in, you have faith in because you do not have evidence that they are real. If you did, you wouldn't need faith, because you could point them out and say: "See, there it is. It exists. And now you can accept it too." But you can't point it out. I can't hold it in my hand. I can't speak to it, or rest my back against it. It requires faith because it does not exist in reality.

As for dreams, they are real. In a way. Our subconscious thoughts, desires, and fears, populate our dreams in symbolic representations. If you attach meaning to a person you know, while awake, and dedicate yourself to believing they mean that thing, then your dreams will reflect this. As you work out problems related to that particular meaning, you'll find council in your dreams comes from the particular person you associated it with. Dreams are an amazingly complex system of symbolic associations which can be worked with in innumerable ways. Assuming one has the patience and wherewithal to train themselves.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Angle

Faith would one make able to fly with constraints of gravity.

Science makes one able to fly with the constraints of gravity. Faith has nothing to do with it. The airplane does not stay aloft because you have faith it will. It stays aloft because science has worked out the manner in which to make it so.

Science allows airplanes fly.
Faith allows airplanes crash into buildings.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by AfterInfinity


How bout this one AI ?

Faith, is where forever begins. IDK just tossed it together. Been hang'in out in the hallmark section of Wallgreens to much.

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by Angle

 

Faith would one make able to fly with constraints of gravity.

Science makes one able to fly with the constraints of gravity. Faith has nothing to do with it. The airplane does not stay aloft because you have faith it will. It stays aloft because science has worked out the manner in which to make it so.

Science allows airplanes fly.
Faith allows airplanes crash into buildings.

~ Wandering Scribe

Imagination does not affect reality, faith on the other side does.

I'm talking about flying without the use of any mechanic system able to fly, or anything. Just levitating and flying. Gravity still exists but has no influence on your body. What it does, is what is called faith.

Science allows airplanes to fly, science is what makes the crap thing go down when the science of it fails.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

Science allows airplanes fly.
Faith allows airplanes crash into buildings.

...Ouch. You took my line!

reply to post by Angle

I'm talking about flying without the use of any mechanic system able to fly, or anything. Just levitating and flying. Gravity still exists but has no influence on your body. What it does, is what is called faith.

Do you have any reliable evidence for that sort of phenomena?

DAFUQ? Faith is just an excuse people use to not do anything.

If you want something done, just do it, make it happen.

Originally posted by pjhead1


If you want something done, just do it, make it happen.

and have faith.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Angle

 

I'm talking about flying without the use of any mechanic system able to fly, or anything. Just levitating and flying. Gravity still exists but has no influence on your body. What it does, is what is called faith.

Do you have any reliable evidence for that sort of phenomena?

Just have faith.

But don't you just drop yourself off of a building ey.

reply to post by Angle


You must be putting an incredible amount of faith in that argument, because it's completely useless!