If you love your lover, would be ok with them having sex with another if it gave them joy?

I would have no problem with that. I think that real love isn`t based on a physical act, real love transcends the physical realm and time itself. In theory love last forever, for eternity, compared to eternity the time we spend here on earth in the physical realm is nothing in the whole scheme of things.

if you really love someone then why would you deny them a physical act that makes them happy and gives them pleasure, even though you aren`t involved in that act?
would you deny them a cold drink of water on a hot day just because you aren`t thirsty?
What other physical acts that bring them a little happiness and pleasure would you deny them in the name of love?

aren`t we all commanded to love one another? so how can bringing happiness and pleasure to someone be considered evil or considered anything but love? do you try to make your enemies happy? no, of course not because they are your enemies and as such you don`t love them and don`t want them to be happy.
if denying happiness and pleasure to someone is a means we use to try to hurt them then how can it also be a means we use to try to prove our love for someone?

If a physical act of pleasure and happiness can make you question the authenticity of someone`s love for you then it`s probably not real love in the first place.Love is much deeper than a momentary physical act in a short temporary existence in a physical realm.

ETA :as much as I dislike bible quotes I have always believed that this is the only quote worthy thing in the bible:

...but have not love, it profits me nothing.Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never fails. ...And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Pardon my ignorance but i've only read the first page amd I get the gist that the op is trying to justify cuckhold.
Imo if you're with someone then other people are off limits for the both of you. Unless you're a sick and perverse individual.
ETA: If you're not dating someone then it's open season.
Btw, ladies, i am single ;-)

Very interesting post, and one to get us all thinking. This is generally a taboo subject, possibly because we don't really understand what 'love' really is.

I would say that we get love and jealousy mixed up. So much in fact that we confuse ownership and domination with love.

Love isn't sex, however sex with someone you truly love is an amazing force.Its interesting to note the differences between the sexes, men tend to be quick to orgasm then recovery then longer to orgasm. Women tend to need time to reach orgasm, and then can have continual multiple orgasms....it could be argued that sexually women seem to be set up for multiple partners during sex...which then raises the question was monogamy designed to enslave a womans sexuality ?

Personally, if a relationship is strong, and both partners are in total agreement and nothing is behind anyone's back and its all safe, then I would be fine with that.

Relationships should be liberating, supporting, reflective and of course fun...

Why bother asking this question when all you are doing is belittling everyone who says "no". It's pretty clear that the answer you are looking for is "yes, it's fine", or "yes, it SHOULD be fine". It's not about jealousy or control, it's about respecting the person you're with enough to have some self control and not screw everything you can. Grow up.

OP, just ask yoursef "WWJD". That's how you will find the true answer, grasshopper.

reply to post by Wide-Eyes

If she was the right woman, she wouldn't want to go on a swinger's party.Anyway, why do you feel the need to contradict the whole point of being with someone and sex itself?

reply to post by kimish


Lame excuse, WWJD, you do know he sinned too right, to not believe that your
fooling yourself like its a joke. Are you in the wrong thread?

Jesus preached love, so go with the flow and dish it out. I don't regret anything,
do you? As far as giving love goes. I know many swingers at many of the churches
I've been too, sorry but you play it like you a ministers kid.

Lol, pray for me

Originally posted by AK907ICECOLD
reply to post by kimish

 

Lame excuse, WWJD, you do know he sinned too right, to not believe that your
fooling yourself like its a joke. Are you in the wrong thread?

Jesus preached love, so go with the flow and dish it out. I don't regret anything,
do you? As far as giving love goes. I know many swingers at many of the churches
I've been too, sorry but you play it like you a ministers kid.

Lol, pray for me

edit on 2-3-2013 by AK907ICECOLD because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-3-2013 by AK907ICECOLD because: (no reason given)

It was my attempt at sarcasm. I'm sorry it went over your head.
And I'm far from a ministers kid.
ETA: You're in my prayers my brother. lol

Ive never felt the need to stray... he hasnt either. We are not only committed, but we are both lustful toward one another AND in love. WIth lust comes jealousy.. and its wonderful that way. Youre trying to make it a negative with your cultural issues OP, but you are mistaken that both lust and love can not coexist... and jealousy is not always a negative. When you have that combination, it pretty well excludes anyone else's interference.. becasue you know you have something they can never have. The interference is unwanted and undesired. It would take away from the intensity between the two and water it down. We jealously protect our commitment to one another equally. IN fact, we take our promises and agreements seriously.. and do not equate sex as only a animalistic rutting, but a fun sport between 2 folks who know eachother particularly well.
If he wanted to renegotiate, Id say nope. You can go, but I am a selfish lover.... I dont share. I wouldnt even fight him if he truly desired to go with someone else because that intensity between us would have gone and Id be bored . He would no longer be anything Id be interested in having basically. Id seek another who was as intense and secure. I chose this person due to his intensity, jealously protecting his emotional investment, and his knowledge that sex isnt only about getting off when youre contemplating a lifelong contract with someone.We deliberated and thought of the future when we decided to commit to one another. THAT actually made things more interesting and no holds bared between us.. just US. Children and fools jump into things without sound decisions... of which we were neither. If Id wanted to experience others.. Id have not made the promises I did. It seems so many have no concept of keeping their word or the depth of a vow.

This would be a personal decision between two adults. I dont think it really matters what outsiders think because the majority will say it's wrong BUT if it is something you and your partner are fine with then I don't see the problem.

Personally imo if your spouse feels the need to sleep with someone else to be happy then they aren't happy at home sexually but that is how I view it. Like I said I think it's hard to say whether it's right or wrong because every relationship is different and every one sees sex differently.

I do know in today's world open relationships are ok and practiced more than they use to be. If it works for you then great but if not then don't do it.

Ultimately, this isn't a generalized answer.

It comes down to love for, knowledge of, and respect towards your partner.

If you know your partner is monogamous, then your love and respect of them should be enough to be happy without having to sleep with every cute face or body you run across.

If you and your partner are polyamourous, then you together find a 3rd (or more) permanent partner(s) to join your family.

If you and your partner are swingers, or don't find sex valuable; then there is no issue like this to begin with and you know your circles or know where to meet your random encounters.


If you are selfish enough to think you deserve to sleep with whoever you choose, regardless of how your significant other thinks or feels about the situation; then you are the bad person, not the one who is 'jealous'. Mild jealousy is about love and private/intimacy/bonding. Psychotic jealousy is the one you can't talk to others/stalking/scary. It is a different beast wrought from delusions,control, and anti-love.


What you are failing to see is; some people view it not as sex, but a form of spiritual bonding and passion. It isn't the act, it is the intimacy. It isn't about the carnal pleasure or ejaculation/squirting; but the idea of two becoming one, sharing that moment in time, giving the most private of moments to each other.

Think of tantric sex.

Others, see it just as an act, like masturbation. There is no value in it, nor their own bodies; no modesty or privacy. Our society, especially contemporary, has devalued sex completely ... clubs and bars with grinding and random sex ... which I'm all for people doing what they choose; but just because one doesn't view it as a value, doesn't mean no one should. Neither is right or wrong; they are both personal values that everyone has the right to have and not have it infringed upon.

I think what people do, is their business behind closed doors, so if you are in a commune of 10 that everyone shares everything including sex ... you have the right. If you are swingers, it is your right to do so. If you just like meeting random people and engaging in sex, enjoy it as far as I'm concerned; just the same as if you want to be the type to sleep with one person your whole life, the person you marry, great, and I can respect that as well.

What I don't think is 'ok'; is to disrespect someone else's set of values because they don't fit with your own. To demean and degrade someone who prefers monogamy because you think it is ok to sleep around is cruel. To just say it is jealousy and not true love is manipulation and dishonest to sway people to your personal rule set.

It is just as selfish to want to sleep with random people as it is for someone to want the person to only sleep with them. It is equal but different. Compromise or you might just find your core values are too different to make it work.

If you want to live that way, meet someone who feels the same. Problem not solved, because it will never be one in the first place. Don't be the type that wants to sleep around, and meet someone at a church; and don't be a diehard monogamist and try to 'change' a person who enjoys casual sex. You can't change someone, they can only have a change of heart on their own.


Again, let me say this simply; if you love your mate; you don't do something that hurts them.

If I wanted to sleep around, it is much easier for me to abstain, than it is for her to cope with me doing it. The act for me would be a single night of random physical pleasure; the scar for her would be up to a lifetime and create rift, tension, distrust; respecting the fact it was known it was going to happen beforehand, openly, and honestly. If I'm not willing to sacrifice fleeting carnal pleasure; then how strong is my emotional bond to begin with?

In a true love relationship, both parties must be able to exhibit both selfishness, and self-sacrifice; mixed with compromise and communication.


But people like to defend themselves in black and white absolutes, when most things have large swaths of gray area.

Normally I tend to agree with your posts but this one is built around a faulty foundation. Whether it's wrong or right is up to the couple but once you brought the concept of truly loving someone into it you changed the game. It may be possible with two people who care for each other but not with the love you describe. This topic would probably be better suited to the philosophy section since it runs so deep.

To start take your initial premise. ( I want to perform this act because it will make me happy regardless of whether it will bother you in any way, harm our relationship and possibly ourselves physically. If you don't let me do this you don't love me.) That in and of itself is not the love you described and I would question how much that party actually cared for the other person.

Where does the line get drawn? Is love letting that person do whatever they please? What if it involved doing something that you know would harm them? If you intervene aren't you being controlling? Is true love not caring? They sound an awfully a lot alike in this description.

Now how about this scenario. Let's say your lover wants to have sex with someone who more than likely has several sexually transmitted diseases and possibly more from other bad choices. Despite any pleas to sanity they insist. What do you do? You can't tell me you wouldn't think twice before being intimate with them again. Would you make them get tested? Isn't that being controlling? Then you must not love or trust them? Does your love come with conditions.

How about in other arenas? Let's say they want to dress and act like the opposite sex out in public. Maybe your girl starts body building and tries to grow a mustache and wants you to refer to her in the masculine? Are you still attracted to them? Are you embarrassed? How about your guy or girl wants to gain 400 pounds? Maybe they want to stop showering and washing completely. Would you try and stop them? After all sex isn't all that important to your relationship and if any of the above is making them feel good and you love them you'll let them do it and stay with them right? I could go on but I believe I made my point. Trying to say you are controlling in one argument and not another is impossible and can't be used to try and justify something you may or may not agree with. All relationships are a two way street and each is unique.

reply to post by arpgme
As long as we are honest about it and discuss it with each other before hand and agree to it I see no problem with it at all. It's when people start being sneaky and deceptive that problems arise. If you are comfortable enough in your relationship and completely trust each other it shouldn't be a problem, although I think it would be better if everyone involved all played together. It just works out better that way as even in the most solid of relationships tiny insecurities can creep in. Besides, the more the merrier!

This idea of "trust" is what leads most relationships to fail so it's a never ending circle of death and frustration. If you both are open about your various partners and you do it safely I see no problem.

Protecting your potential mates from mating with others is just part of human nature we can't help it.

All things may be permissible but not all things are beneficial. I would guess that there is research that has investigated this issue of open relationships. I would suggest you might want to look at it. I personally believe it is between the couple even though I would never participate in an open relationship. I have seen relationships destroyed by it and seen the devastation done to children.

I think it is a mistake to think that sex can be totally isolated from emotion. When people are at the point of orgasm they are totally vulnerable. They are physically and emotionally trusting the other person to do no harm. I believe when men and women spend time together, however brief, their hearts can go out to each other.

People will do what they will.

reply to post by arpgme


Humans get horny even when they are not in a relationship. It means that sex is not love and love is not sex. If you truly love someone, it has everything to do with how that loved one thinks, feels, and interests you.

On the one hand, your lover having sex with multiple partners should have nothing to do with love, but it SHOULD have everything to do with putting YOU at risk for STD's. It's just not a smart thing to do. If that person truly cared for you, he/she would never take that chance.

I see that some people have side stepped the questions and dodged the bullet by turning this around and not addressing the questions. I wonder if they did that intentionally because they have no rational answers to the questions.

Let`s look again at the original questions:

First off, do you believe that "Love" can be "Jealousy"?

Would you be willing to let your love sleep with another person if that is what made them happy?

The questions are about you so the answers should be about you, not about the other person and how they may or may not feel, or how moral or immoral they might be, or how authentic their love for you may or may not be.Those things are irrelevant to the questions.

I find these to be very interesting questions because it forces people to look at how they define and exhibit love.

I`ve noticed that what people define and understand to be love often conflicts with their actions and demonstrations of love.i`m just very curious about the things people do to reconcile and rationalize the conflict between their actions and their beliefs of love.
side stepping the apparent contradiction seems to be the go to response to avoid having to face it and examine it.

It's a really tricky one because sex can create a really strong bond. What if your partner couldn't stop thinking about one of it's encounters? Could you handle that? Are you prepared for your partner to leave because they can't stop thinking about one of those others?

It's a strange one.
Sex is a great thing and what two, or more, consenting adults get up to is entirely up to them.
Far too many people have far too many hang-up's when it comes to sex.
And it seems many of those are far too judgemental as well.

Personally, I see no problem with it, in theory.
Not too sure whether I'd be all that comfortable in practice though.

The vast majority of us are just too conditioned by society's mores etc.

But the reality is that many couples are involved in these types of relationships, for various reasons, and to varying degrees of happiness.

Is monogamy a social construct or human nature?

I'd be interested in both anthropologists and psychologists take on things.

reply to post by arpgme


There is no real right or wrong in this questions only choices. If both want an open relationship then let them have it and if they want a closed relationship let them have it. The problem is with not being open with what you want from the beginning and giving false impression on what you want for temporary need/want.

If you do not want the real closed relationship with a person who wants it then stay the hell away from them even if you are sexually attracted to that person. I despise people who are leading other people on. They are worthless pieces of soul trash.