Psychological Child Abuse?

What's wrong with being an effeminate man? When I was young I liked to play with Barbies with my sister every once in a while. Occasionally I'd even dress up as a girl. It's a part of childhood, we experiment. Now I'm just a regular dude. No vagina, no confusion. There are plenty of effeminate men that don't get there penises inverted, and there are plenty of masculine women that don't do the opposite.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
how many times do i have to state that reality isn't dictated by opinions.

Yet, it so often is.

Olympic athletes that were disqualified with humiliation one year for having Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome are allowed to compete other years. It's just one of many examples of gender coming down to a matter of opinion and being a grey area. It could be an issue in the brain, it could be an issue in biology ...

The reality is we have a segment of the population with a massively increased suicide rate (both pre and post therapy) and sweeping them under the carpet won't do anything about it. People often want to be millionaires ... they don't have massive increases in suicide rates from doing so. It's plainly obvious it's an issue that can't be fixed with a pep talk and a back hand.

Perhaps if people have a more tolerant nature it may decrease those suicide rates. Perhaps even just allowing some to dress and look a little differently without scorn may turn those rates almost normal. Perhaps one day we will find the magical reason and fix it before it occurs ... till then, it's a reality and a problem.

I can't completely hate on these parents, I'm not sure why they're doing what they're doing ... but a person being a male to female transsexual is a tragic diagnosis, and I can imagine they may feel they have to do whatever they can to decrease their child's burden and sudden massive increase in suicide rate. Shaking the cornerstones and pillars of society for child seems like not much effort. If I was told that my child's suicide rate would shoot up several times above normal unless I went to court and forced you to wear a Sombrero every second Tuesday ... you can bet your butt you would be having Mexican Tuesdays for the rest of your freaking life.

There are a million other ways to become a public figure, be trendy, and become rich ... picking up a sword to go on the campaign trail of transsexual rights in America is right up there with starting a gay rights group in Iran. These parents have brought a storm over their heads that will follow them for the rest of their lives.

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by chasingbrahman
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Perhaps your childhood is littered by evidence that your burgeoning intellect and identity was essentially feckless, but many people have memories of being very young, and still having opinions about what was a toy for a girl, or what was clothing for a boy. I remember playing with dolls, but also finding happiness in being like my best friend who was a boy and playing with trucks. But I understand if you didn't draw these distinctions. It actually makes sense that you didn't, given your feedback.

That was really a poor attempt at an insult. But then again I didn't expect much from such emotional brain trust. Its a scientific fact that kids early on are in the theta state. Knowing whether a doll is for boys or girls is learned either from parents or observation they aren't born that way... I never said they could not be inclined to male or female from birth and I explained why in my original post. I pointed out that this early on in childhood it is a learned response from the parents most likely and I am sure TV and other influences. They are not fully conscious like an adult till about 8 years old. I said the kid should be encouraged to accept his gender that is all. There is a reason he was born male it is not an accident and if it turns out he can't accept it and becomes gay as he matures well that is fine too but it is obvious at this young age these parents are influencing him and that will doom him to a hard life of ridicule and heartache. Chances are he will snap out of it when he hits puberty then he will still never live down his childhood because these parents believe all the psycho babble...

edit on 1-3-2013 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

It wasn't an attempt at insulting you. Rather, based on an analysis of your response, I determined the likelihood of the Dunning-Krueger effect dominating your mental framework.

So since your gender-identity has always been the result of choosing which gender's stereotypical behavior to display, I'd like to suggest beginning a thread on it. It would be interesting to read about how a grown man decided to behave like a little boy and then a young man, instead of choosing to behave like a little girl and then a young woman (or vice-versa as I don't know your gender). I realize many people argue that gender-identity exists on a continuum, but I have yet to learn anything about a person who recalls their identity as the result of ongoing choices since early toddlerhood.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


That's a little girl. I don't care what plumbing she was born with. I am glad that she has parents who love her.

reply to post by 0zzymand0s

That's a little girl. I don't care what plumbing she was born with. I am glad that she has parents who love her.

This is what most people would see if they didn't know the story - a little girl

If Coy had been born a hermaphrodite her road might have been a little easier - then she would be allowed to be whichever gender came to her naturally

You gotta love America - a place where people are terrified of a small child's pee pee

Having been a little girl in a little girls restroom, I think I can safely say - it's a non-issue

:-)

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by 0zzymand0s

 

That's a little girl. I don't care what plumbing she was born with. I am glad that she has parents who love her.

This is what most people would see if they didn't know the story - a little girl

If Coy had been born a hermaphrodite her road might have been a little easier - then she would be allowed to be whichever gender came to her naturally

You gotta love America - a place where people are terrified of a small child's pee pee

Having been a little girl in a little girls restroom, I think I can safely say - it's a non-issue

:-)

Nope.

Don't you know? Men know whats best for you and your little girl using the restroom.
Out of all the people concerned about these issues the commentors that "it's wrong" or "They need to protect women" are about 95% that I've counted. Obviously, I don't have the ability to run a scientific study from home. But y'all can look. Don't worry. Men are here to decide for you.

reply to post by Pinke

Yet, it so often is.

if "A" is true, but person "B" believes otherwise, "A" still doesn't change. how hard is that to grasp?

The reality is we have a segment of the population with a massively increased suicide rate (both pre and post therapy)

that does more to point to a collective psychological problem (because post "therapy" doesn't seem to help) than anything else.

picking up a sword to go on the campaign trail of transsexual rights in America is right up there with starting a gay rights group in Iran.

really? because all i've seen is the media support them.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


Liberal media supports usually.

Conservative? olol I could have copied your arguments from the mouths of Fox News Anchors and Glenn Beck

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Ahh. where to start. I wouldn't consider myself more qualified than the next person, but I have extensive learning in many psychological fields: child psyche, adolescent psyche, psychology of sex roles, social psychology, human growth and development, human development, abnormal psyche and advanced abnormal psyche to name a few.

You're the one who asked BUT, thats not the point.

I couldn't care less about how anyone lives their lives, as long as they aren't harming anyone else. I was stating that the child has absolutely no way of knowing the implications of what is going on around him. He could change his mind at any given time and MORE THAN LIKELY will. If he doesn't, then good for him/her. As stated before, I don't care at all. Not my life, not my problem. The problem I had was the fact that the parents made a big to-do about something that isn't set in stone. Attention whores. AND the fact that if they had their way the school would have to construct a new bathroom. I don't believe in catering to anyone. Public education, while a joke in itself, isn't there to cater to the whims of one 6 year old. I wouldn't want my tax dollars going to construct a unisex restroom, unless a certain persentage of the students werein the same boat as Coy. At least 25% and that ain't happening.

MOTF!

reply to post by MessOnTheFED!

Attention whores.

:-)

AND the fact that if they had their way the school would have to construct a new bathroom.

Or, the school could do the simple thing and right thing, not cater to the the few that are afraid she might ruin their baby girls, not make little Coy feel like a freak - and let her continue using the little girls room

Just like she was before

Simple

And since you're a psychologist and all - why don't you explain how much harm it would cause to let her continue on like this until she does know for sure (if we're going to pretend she doesn't know now) as opposed to forcing her into a role she doesn't want to play - just because it works for everyone else

She has two parents who love her - good for them. Putting their daughter first and ignoring the 'experts' and the haters

:-)

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


So in other words one little kid gets to do whatever they want while everyone else gets to cater to them?

LOL thats rich.

MOTF!

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


"And since you're a psychologist and all - why don't you explain how much harm it would cause to let her continue on like this until she does know for sure (if we're going to pretend she doesn't know now) as opposed to forcing her into a role she doesn't want to play - just because it works for everyone else"

Not a psychologist, it just interests me.

Now, in the spirit of 'imagination':

If they know "for sure" then they should take medical action. I'm sorry to say it but in the society we live in now, depending on where he/she will eventually live, he/she will be lucky to make it through highschool. If he/she does there will be an infanitely bright light at the end of the tunnel compared to high school.

Genteics forced 'her into a role she didn't want to play'. Not society. The school tried to give him a restroom to use. That wasn't good enough so he should get what all the other kids get. Not special treatment for being 'different'.

MOTF!

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


freak

/frēk/


Noun:
A very unusual and unexpected event or situation.

MOTF!

So this girl with the penis has been using female facilities? What about in high school when they have to use a locker room? I mean, I know girls in high school know about male genitalia, but apparently everyone has to be okay with the genetic male getting naked in the school locker room because he likes to grow his hair long, wear dresses, and look 'pretty'.

Come on people. I'd be upset if I sent my little girl to school and she's sharing a locker room with a dude. Sorry if that makes me insensitive to a confused child's feelings, and his/her parent's agenda.

reply to post by MisterFister103

exactly. it's a disturbing president. i brought up an example earlier taking place on a college, and miraculously opinions go from "you can't judge coy's sexuality" to "this is completely wrong and this cross-dresser should be arrested"

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


I never called her a cross-dresser. And I never called for her to be arrested. Don't put words in my mouth.

I said it was wrong for her to be exposing herself in the way that she was.

But you go ahead and twist my words. It's why I stopped debating with you. Hey bob, if you're such a smart guy, why can't you even read?

So this girl with the penis has been using female facilities? What about in high school when they have to use a locker room? I mean, I know girls in high school know about male genitalia, but apparently everyone has to be okay with the genetic male getting naked in the school locker room because he likes to grow his hair long, wear dresses, and look 'pretty'.

Come on people. I'd be upset if I sent my little girl to school and she's sharing a locker room with a dude. Sorry if that makes me insensitive to a confused child's feelings, and his/her parent's agenda.

here's a picture of the dude that's going to sexually assault your little girl.






Are you still concerned?

Since Bob won't comment on it. By the time Coy is in high school, she'll be able to receive Hormone therapy.
But see, Bob wants to force a six year old girl into early puberty so that she can be like adults early on. Or something.

I never called her a cross-dresser. And I never called for her to be arrested. Don't put words in my mouth.

Because, I don't know, I am a transsexual and I have to deal with morons like you taking an unusual case as proof that all transsexuals are cross dressing pervs out to rape and hurt little girls?

looks like you did call him a cross dresser. from what you've said, a cross dresser is someone who wears the opposite sex's clothing and is pre-op/hasn't undergone hormonal therapy, and i'm assuming you're for arresting perverts? i merely took what you said and synthesized it.

Since Bob won't comment on it. By the time Coy is in high school, she'll be able to receive Hormone therapy. But see, Bob wants to force a six year old girl into early puberty so that she can be like adults early on. Or something.

you STILL haven't explained how he is a girl in ANY way, and i'm against the parents introducing such ideas to children who are too young to make their own minds up and understand the consequences.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


Bob.

You're a moron. Go learn to troll.

Because you're either a troll, can't read, or have run out of arguments so you're now twisting my words.

Take your pick and learn to do it better. You fail.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by Pinke

 

if "A" is true, but person "B" believes otherwise, "A" still doesn't change. how hard is that to grasp?

It isn't that hard to grasp at all no.

Nor is the observation that a person can be born with a body not matching a known gender (intersex). Persons can be born presenting as a woman but with statistically male interests, their mind does not match their body to some extent (CAH). Ergo it is entirely possible that a mind (which is part of the body) may not necessarily match the observable gender. Therefore some proportion of gender identity disorder is perhaps likely to be legitimate.

If biological (and other) factors can influence a person's gendered behaviors in ways opposing to their observed physical gender, but you believe otherwise, the fact still doesn't change.

that (the suicide rates) does more to point to a collective psychological problem (because post "therapy" doesn't seem to help) than anything else.

Could write an essay on this ... not all studies would agree with you nor is it easy to collate information on a group of people who don't often want to be named or recognized.

Furthermore, the reasons for suicide are multiple and varied and in no small part due to society and its reaction to trans persons. Intersex people historically and still to this day under go aesthetic surgery to fit in to avoid stigma that often leads to depression etc ...

picking up a sword to go on the campaign trail of transsexual rights in America is right up there with starting a gay rights group in Iran.

really? because all i've seen is the media support them.

Could write an essay on that, but just look up the homicide rate of trans persons; this family is taking risks by doing what they are doing. That was the main point.

Regardless of whether they are right or wrong in their actions, this action more than likely requires strong belief; the severe negative outcomes and repercussions are plainly visible to to anyone of average intelligence.

I cannot say I envy them.

Anyway, thank you for the conversation. I doubt your opinion will change, and if it does it won't likely be from a conversation with myself.

reply to post by MessOnTheFED!

Sorry I dropped out yesterday - I had a bus to catch...

True story :-)

So in other words one little kid gets to do whatever they want while everyone else gets to cater to them?

LOL thats rich.

It's interesting to me that you keep focusing on 'attention whores' and people being 'catered' to...is this really all that matters to you?

This goes way beyond catering to one little girl - this case will be used to decide laws that will affect everyone in the future

You said some interesting things in your next post:

If they know "for sure" then they should take medical action. I'm sorry to say it but in the society we live in now, depending on where he/she will eventually live, he/she will be lucky to make it through highschool. If he/she does there will be an infanitely bright light at the end of the tunnel compared to high school.

You agree they should take medical action - so, you do understand what we're all talking about

If you haven't noticed - the society we live in is changing. She might make it just fine - but why make things harder for her and others like her? Next step forward always coming - then the next...

Besides MOTF - high school sucks for a lot of us :-) We all survive and don't survive in so many different ways

Genteics forced 'her into a role she didn't want to play'. Not society. The school tried to give him a restroom to use. That wasn't good enough so he should get what all the other kids get. Not special treatment for being 'different'.

Actually - it is society that won't allow her to be what she wants to be - and society is what's going to change. It's inevitable

Some adults who grew up in the '50s and '60s felt this way but never talked about it, said Karen Scarpella, program director for the Gender Identity Center of Colorado.

"There all these adults who say, 'I knew when I was 3 or 4, but I couldn't tell anyone. That was made very clear to me.' But now we're in a society that allows more gender-bending, and we can express ourselves more," Scarpella said...

...As the general public becomes more aware of the issue through stories about kids such as Coy, the scientific community is also starting to expand its research into life cycles of transgender people to include children.

God love you Boulder - and all reasonable people everywhere...

Transgender identity is a relatively new issue in the nation, so there is little uniformity among school district policies. Some in Colorado, including Boulder Valley Schools, have crafted detailed policies citing the state Anti-Discrimination Act. Others have not.

Boulder's guidelines specifically address restroom accessibility, stating that "students shall have access to the restroom that corresponds to their gender identity consistently asserted at school."

The policy was developed about five years ago because "the district has long been committed to the inclusion of sexual orientation and gender identity," said district spokesman Briggs Gamblin.

Every two years, the district participates in Boulder County's Youth Risk Behavior Survey, which "consistently has found one of the high-risk groups for teen suicide are GLBT (gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender) or questioning," Gamblin said. "It's critically important that these students feel included — part of the community, not separated from it."

Onward and upward....