Psychological Child Abuse?

reply to post by FreedomEntered

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
School is about following rules.

Well, at least, there's ONE thing we can emphatically agree on. That's why my child would never go to a public school. I suggest these parents find another avenue to educate their child.

So much face palm, do not know where to start.

I love how CNN starts defining 'transgender' statistics as possibly being 1 in 30, 000 and 1 in 1000. Transgender is an umbrella term for a lot of different types of persons including people with intersex conditions, crossdressers (including temporary ones), people who look a bit butch or feminine etc etc etc .... The term they're looking for is transsexual.

Then I love how they don't reference their statistics because it would be pretty impossible to do so given you can present in a transgendered way by wearing a fake beard and a dress at the same time. Go to university, study, get a degree so you can report for CNN and not bother referencing ever again!

Originally posted by chrome413
My thoughts here are:
1) Is this psycological abuse by the parents?

No idea.

If the parents are doing it unintentionally then it is no different from teaching an incorrect religion. Except, if I said teaching religion was child abuse I would be beaten to death with a giant stick.

If the parents are intentionally politically using their children ... yes, but I find that very hard to believe.

2) A 4 year old does not possess the mental maturity to be able to choose his gender.

I don't believe that has happened yet in this case, and I don't believe doctors or parents from the article are doing so? I did not watch the video but there was no reference to hormone treatment or surgery.

The child is just being a child unless people have amazing evidence to the contrary. Most transsexual people show evidence early in life. Many parents try to 'fix' it. Acting early on it is no greater sin than trying to stop it.

3) Perhaps the mother has pressured the child into believing he is transgender?

The child is transgender. CNN should have said transsexual.Even then, who knows, but again see above. There won't be any irreversible (or usually shouldn't be) until teens.

4) Should the school system be forced to let the child use the girls bathroom/ locker rooms?

I'm torn.

On one hand, I don't think it's anyone's business. So much obsession with toilets when they are places for pooping and peeing, not gender debates. That said parents do worry ...

But the alternative is explaining the situation to the child's class mates which would result in 'omgs GBLT agenda is being shoved down our throats again!' Perhaps if we tell some children they will all come to school cross dressing? Like how all the children want wheel chairs and crutches when a child is handicapped? Slightly sarcastic but still ...

Point is you can't win. Some people can't admit it but they don't actually want an answer ... they just want it to go away because they think it is wrong (often with zero actual research). Even if trans persons were okay with being described as handicapped I don't think people would be okay with it.

5) What are the ramifications for the rest of society?

There shouldn't be any if we just get on with life. Go to toilet, do pee, use toilet cubicles for what toilet is actually for.

End of the day is the usual answer. .. there is no answer to this.

Usual points for the record:

- If you are going to post that gender is 100% chromosome related, I suggest do not post go and research instead
- If you are going to post if you have a pee pee you're a man, I suggest do not post go and research instead

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Well yes, but there are parents who send their children to ordinary schools and their kids live as transgendered. Im assuming they cant have an op done before 18yrs?..

Gender is a complex subject. I think what happened to me is I raised by my father so I chose to identify with him more, I never really saw my mother. Also I think I was experiementing with my own gender.

I remember a girl up the road from me who was clear she was a lesbian at 3yrs old. lol.. So I wasnt the only one.

But these ones who want it 24/7 and demand if from their parents to be recognised as the opposite gender are going to push the parents to defend them.

I can understand why... lol the other " fear" these kids. Because they are shaking things up. But you know ultimately, it isnt the childrens faults and they should be accepted and treated fairly.

I kinda feel kids PLAY genders alot. Especially behind the scenes. Youd be suprised

reply to post by chrome413


This is something that should wait untill the child is an adult.

Unnecessary operations should be illegal and child abuse, just like circumcision.

reply to post by Kentucky75

so you played with dolls, and are of the more feminine persuasion, but you're still attracted to females. that makes you female how? you have a male body, and find women sexually appealing.

i think the whole issue of transgendered is more envy of the other sex, and envy becomes desire, and desire is mistaken for reality.

feelings don't dictate reality. you're born in a body that has a gender (excluding rare cases).

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

The feelings of the child in this story were not fleeting thoughts. It was a constant and consistent knowledge through the years that the child had and she was evaluated by professionals.

i watched the interview, and the child didn't say a word.

people have manic episodes and genuinely believe they are a god, or invincible, but it doesn't make them so. "genuine" feelings are an opinion on reality, they do not change reality.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


Even if this is the case you know they have a right to have the sexual genital op. And they do say they feel in the wrong body, not feel like Oh Im feeling angry at the moment, but have this persistant feeling of wanting to be the opposite gender. I dont think envy is the right word. I think its a biological desire.

I think people have to agree that gays and transexuals probably have the biological desire. And stop trying to say its something that is psychological.

Wow just wow...! A six year old boy doesn't just decide they are a girl on their own without parental influence. The Child didn't like a car as a present and liked his sisters pink blanket so they parents decide he must be a girl trapped in a male body? Wow kids don't have any concept of a pink blanket being for girls or a car being for boys until the parents teach it to them. I question the mental capacity of these parents. Why in the world would you put your child through the kind of discrimination being transgender entails.

It is possible this child was a female in the last several past lives and then changed to a male in this life but the child is still identifying with the female aspect however there is a reason he was born male and the parents would do well to help him accept his being a male. However at six years old it is hard to tell if that is the case or if the parents just influenced him with their warped sense of reality.

As someone said in an earlier post it is likely the child will outgrow this and in the mean time the parents should encourage him to accept the gender he was born with his soul chose male for a reason . This kid is now going to have lots of problems because his parents have doomed him to a life of discrimination and ridicule...

reply to post by hawkiye


No it starts off that these children want to dress up in the opposite genders clothes and play as girls or boys do.

Thats how it starts.

Then they decide they want to be this way more permanently, so the hair chopping starts or grows.

And what happens if the parent doesnt go along with this they develop behavioural problems, anxiety etc.

So the child DOES decide. The parents I saw interviewed, were upset and felt they had no choice but to go along with the childs perception of themselves. The parents wanted their kids to be or identify the gender they were born .

Originally posted by Xaphan
This is pretty creepy. He's six years old for Christ's sake. Most kids that age don't even really have a concept of gender identity. It's clearly being pushed on him by parents that wanted a girl instead.

Also, he should be using the male washroom. It's quite simple really; if you have a bird and two eggs you use the men's loo. If you have a pie you use the girl's loo. Gender is determined by anatomy. Try walking into a women's washroom if you're a man and saying "Well I feel like a woman!" I'm willing to bet that it wouldn't reduce the amount of screams and slaps you get.

edit on 1-3-2013 by Xaphan because: (no reason given)

Although gender-identity evolves from infancy into adulthood (as we grow, and as society's definition of the genders' roles evolve), a large part of it is developed by the age of five. Remember, there is much more to gender identity than the act of sex. There are haircuts, gender-specific play, clothing, colors, vocal inflections, bedroom furniture, future career goals (however infantile), types of work around the house, etc. The list is a long one.

Gender identity is arguably in some of its most formative years at this child's age. But a parent pushing a child to strictly adhere to one gender's role is usually a mistake BECAUSE these years are so formative. Children are self-guiding in these matters.

Originally posted by chasingbrahman

Originally posted by Xaphan
This is pretty creepy. He's six years old for Christ's sake. Most kids that age don't even really have a concept of gender identity. It's clearly being pushed on him by parents that wanted a girl instead.

Also, he should be using the male washroom. It's quite simple really; if you have a bird and two eggs you use the men's loo. If you have a pie you use the girl's loo. Gender is determined by anatomy. Try walking into a women's washroom if you're a man and saying "Well I feel like a woman!" I'm willing to bet that it wouldn't reduce the amount of screams and slaps you get.

edit on 1-3-2013 by Xaphan because: (no reason given)

Although gender-identity evolves from infancy into adulthood (as we grow, and as society's definition of the genders' roles evolve), a large part of it is developed by the age of five. Remember, there is much more to gender identity than the act of sex. There are haircuts, gender-specific play, clothing, colors, vocal inflections, bedroom furniture, future career goals (however infantile), types of work around the house, etc. The list is a long one.

Gender identity is arguably in some of its most formative years at this child's age. But a parent pushing a child to strictly adhere to one gender's role is usually a mistake BECAUSE these years are so formative. Children are self-guiding in these matters.

edit on 3/1/2013 by chasingbrahman because: (no reason given)

What a load of psycho babble... Kids have no clue till they get older. Parents are the biggest single influence in their lives till then. They are not self guided they are not even fully conscious the first several years they are still in the theta brain wave state more like a dream state and they are like little computer sponges absorbing everything they see and hear directly into their subconscious. They are anything but self guided in this state.

reply to post by chrome413


Well I read this article, I thought that it was a child with both male and female parts, but after reading more I realized that is was a male child after all, trying to play a role as a girl with parent consent

Well in my mind regardless of the choices of the child "gender" and the "wishes" of the very confused parents, the boy has a penis and as such he belong in the boys restroom no with the girls.

Sorry to say this but somebody needs to tell the child the difference between a penis and a vagina and why they are separated by gender restrooms

Like many have say, were society is heading this days?

I have not problem with gender association but darn a child under 10? really give me a darn brake.

reply to post by hawkiye


Actually its not psycho babble.Children are aware of much " independantly" away from parents.

Children are not puppets nor clones. Hence, why you find even in religious communities gays exist. Because its their natural inclination even if they havent been brought up exposed to this, they have a " nature" a biological make up.

So for example, your child might be more science aware and you as a parent might be more artistically aware. We do not see the same.

Usually parents act as role models for children, and children do absorb alot.

But for example, Id say with gender issues and what it means to be a girl I absorbed more about that away from home, at school, observing other girls and boys and noticing the differences. This wasnt taught.

Also I remember a girl aged 5yrs old having a " first boyfriend" her mother had been single I might add, for quite a while so she didnt pick up about how to hold a boys hand from her mother or even how to be close to another male from her mother. This was innate to her make up.

reply to post by hawkiye


Perhaps your childhood is littered by evidence that your burgeoning intellect and identity was essentially feckless, but many people have memories of being very young, and still having opinions about what was a toy for a girl, or what was clothing for a boy. I remember playing with dolls, but also finding happiness in being like my best friend who was a boy and playing with trucks. But I understand if you didn't draw these distinctions. It actually makes sense that you didn't, given your feedback.

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
reply to post by Kentucky75

 

I'm sorry that you have been bullied for who you are. That is wrong. People SHOULD be able to express themselves however they want. I completely believe that. However, you say that this isn't a phase because it wasn't a phase with you. How do you know what this little boy will think in 5 years? You can't possibly know, because you aren't him and you can't read the future. So, with that said, why should the school have to build a new restroom? Obviously, there is a boys ang girls restroom for a reason. Obviously, parents dont want a little boy going to the restroom with their little girl. Obviously, using the nurse and staff restroom isn't good enough for the little boy. Whats the answer? What about when another kid wants the same? Does every school now have to have a unisex restroom? How much do you think that will cost taxpayers?

Maybe the parents should fork over money for a sex change operation for the little boy if they are so sure he wants to be a girl. I know, thats about as outlandish as schools having to construct a unisex restroom for a kid that could change his mind at any moment. That kid isn't any more special than the next kid and if the parents don't agree with the facilities that the school has, then they need to homeschool him/her.

MOTF!

Bullied is a understatement.
i live in the south..i have been beat to the point i cant walk for weeks.
ive had rednecks do worse once they found out i was born a man. every watch boys dont cry movie? then you get the idea.

But no person realizes what it's like to know in your heart and mind your meant to be the opposite sex.
Just to have people flat chastise you for it.
as far as bathrooms go..i go in the womans bathroom have never had one ounce of trouble.of course no one can tell i am a man either unless told i am.

Now ask yourself this people...would men want me to come in there bathroom dress high heels ect..
what would happen to me once they figure out im a guy? beat stabbed shot? men are homophobic by nature and scared easy.
99% of women will go oh well nothing to fear so im ok.
women dont tend to want to beat you or kill you for having to pee lol

Well not all kids are aware of sexuality or gender. Maybe its the case that some are more happy with their conditioning. But other kids rebel, and kick out and say " This is me". Well this usually, ordinarily happens in the teens, but such is biological make up, that differs from the parents, this is what makes them an individual.

reply to post by Kentucky75


Yeah, but your a grown up. And I assume if you are a transexual you would have changed your gender on birth certificate.

So as such society is expected to treat you as the gender you chose.

This is the case of a child. Slight difference here..

To me it goes like this, if you have a penis you are a male if you have a vagina you are female and you genetic code will show that is a fact

What you want to do with your gender identification as an adult is your choice, but a young child under 10 that is bull crap from their parents, plain and simple and also pushing an agenda to the rest of people around them.

I have made some observations about kids these days, and this is just what I've noticed with my own eyes and mind, but it seems that some of these kids get way more parental liberation than I used to get. I constantly hear parents giving their child choices as to what they wish to do, compared to when i was a minor, what i wanted to do was what my parents told me to do.
"Little Johnnie doesn't want to eat what I've fixed for dinner so I have to go out and buy him what he wants." "Little Susie told me we can't leave the store until we get the toy that SHE wanted." "Little Chris say's she FEELS like a girl so i think she should be able to use the girl's bathroom even though she has male equipment."
These kids deserve better structure. it's ok to feel like a boy or a girl or whatever, just explain to these kids what is going on with their bodies and minds and be honest with them. We as a society have to think about what we are raising to be the next generation.


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Originally posted by FreedomEntered
reply to post by Kentucky75

 

Yeah, but your a grown up. And I assume if you are a transexual you would have changed your gender on birth certificate.

So as such society is expected to treat you as the gender you chose.

This is the case of a child. Slight difference here..

The problem is a child legally cant take hormones till 18 on there own free will unless you petition the court's.
and doctor's and so on.

i am a adult..people do not wake up realize there transsexual.
90% of the time they hide it and end up killing themselves.
they have to live as the opposite sex with no hormone treatment in public for 2 to 3 year's ..and that's depends on how long ya therapist wants to milk you for money.
All just to confirm hey this person is transsexual lol

in my state you can't change your sex until after the operation.
regardless of how you live your life.
Also i am married..with 3 children once i do go to remove my male genitalia in people's eye's i am no longer legally married to my wife of 12+ year's. ironic huh i am good enough to be married to her as a man but sec i get a doctor to wack my male part's off i am unfit to be married to her lol
That makes no sense to me never will.