Why are Americans deluded into thinking they could win a civil war?

reply to post by HattoriHanzou


Devil's advocate here:Our leadership has sacrificed our integrity for security years ago so they don't trust us.I still say Russia would back stability,China would go apes###i in the far east, not invade us.
Not to mention America is considered insane by a great deal of the world,no wonder why.
No one wants that kind of crazy going off.

reply to post by quietlearner


So then the only scenario your willing to contemplate is one in which our sub crews do what exactly? Pull up to shore the day it kicks off and get out?

What part of military commanders arent retarded do you not understand? There would obviously still he a need for maintaining our nuclear deterrent, sub commanders already have orders in place for exactly this scenario, and every other one we could come up with, and many we cwnt even contemplate.

Your utter lack of any understanding about this subject, yet your total belief your right, are inherently at odds with logic.

If you dont know anything about what your talking about why dont you do some research and become better informed about the subject matter before you try to explain to the vets whonactually know what they are talking about, how they are wrong.

reply to post by quietlearner


Nope not really.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by HattoriHanzou

 

Devil's advocate here:Our leadership has sacrificed our integrity for security years ago so they don't trust us.I still say Russia would back stability,China would go apes###i in the far east, not invade us.
Not to mention America is considered insane by a great deal of the world,no wonder why.
No one wants that kind of crazy going off.

edit on 26-2-2013 by cavtrooper7 because: missplled

While I agree, the problem is that so many of our allies have gone completely insane in the same fashion as out "leaders" that we would not be able to count upon Europe to do anything but perhaps send troops over to guard DC.

They might receive warnings that even that might result in retaliation.

I think that if it kicks off here in the USA the world will just sit back and let us tire ourselves out for a few years.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional


So then the only scenario your willing to contemplate is one in which our sub crews do what exactly? Pull up to shore the day it kicks off and get out?

What part of military commanders arent retarded do you not understand? There would obviously still he a need for maintaining our nuclear deterrent, sub commanders already have orders in place for exactly this scenario, and every other one we could come up with, and many we cwnt even contemplate.

Your utter lack of any understanding about this subject, yet your total belief your right, are inherently at odds with logic.

If you dont know anything about what your talking about why dont you do some research and become better informed about the subject matter before you try to explain to the vets whonactually know what they are talking about, how they are wrong.

who will the commanders be? revolutionary or federal?
and what will they protect? the capital or all the states or one state?
we are talking about the collapse of the federal government, collapse of the US dollar
in this case the very arms used to deter interference today will become the very reason for interference

reply to post by HattoriHanzou

And just imagine Appalachia - they've been itching for a rematch for a century and a half now.

Re-match? Appalachia fought on the winning side of the war.

Breaking up the union wouldn't be a bad idea, being that the red states sold our country to the bankers.

We would then need a strict immigration policy

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by quietlearner

 

Nope not really.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a better example of what happens when the police withdraw is the LA riots

Something I'm not sure anyone has considered. What about the National Guard troops and Reservists? My posts concerning the troops dealt exclusively with Active Duty members, I completely forgot about the NG and Reserves!

The Governors could use the NG to protect their states from FED intervention, it is their right. The NG troops would most likely be more loyal to their states and obey the will of the Governor. They would not fear for their families as they would be in a position to protect them. They also have access to equipment, supplies, etc.

Reservists are a completely different animal. They are usually called up to supplement their AD counterparts. Most have battle experience as they have seen combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. During a National Emergency, such as a revolution or civil unrest, they would be called up...but that doesn't mean they would report! Again, they are in a position in which they do not have to worry about their families and would be in a position to protect them.

Now, could these two groups play a pivotal role in any revolution or civil war? I think they could.

That said, the Governors loyal to the FED could use the NG to try and quell the uprising but the leaders of the NG could still ignore that order.

Originally posted by quietlearner

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by quietlearner

 

Nope not really.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a better example of what happens when the police withdraw is the LA riots

The LA riots were organized and helped by certain forces, whom are easy to peg if you do a little research.

Heck, my wife comes from a community that doesn't even have police. They don't need them because they police themselves. Western Iowa. Woe to the criminal there. He's fertilizer in a corn field, or pork feed.

reply to post by HattoriHanzou


I agree, 5 years ago I woukd have called this conversation irrelevant, today the only people saying that are the really devout lefties, who are still so in awe and lovestruck with obama, they cannot for the life of them understand why we have a problem, and very strong distrust for this man and his policies, of capital punishment without trial, indefinite detention without a trial, or appeal, or any recourse at all. All simply because he pointed and said you were a terrorist.

You know who else had the ability to execute people on their word alone? Kings, kings had that authority, and dictators, and tyrants of every stripe.

He is neither noble, nor worthy of any elevated position, he deserves to be making minimum wage at mcdonalds, maybe not even that much.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by HattoriHanzou

 

I agree, 5 years ago I woukd have called this conversation irrelevant, today the only people saying that are the really devout lefties, who are still so in awe and lovestruck with obama, they cannot for the life of them understand why we have a problem, and very strong distrust for this man and his policies, of capital punishment without trial, indefinite detention without a trial, or appeal, or any recourse at all. All simply because he pointed and said you were a terrorist.

You know who else had the ability to execute people on their word alone? Kings, kings had that authority, and dictators, and tyrants of every stripe.

He is neither noble, nor worthy of any elevated position, he deserves to be making minimum wage at mcdonalds, maybe not even that much.

Despite claims to the contrary, he and his wife were both disbarred from practicing law, and Obama himself, despite being labelled a "constitutional scholar" by the flacks in the media, never authored a paper or taught a class on the subject.

He's the worst president ever.

reply to post by HattoriHanzou


There was talk about revolution, or at least a drastic return to constitutional principles, before OKC Bombing and 911 also.

Its about time, this year or next year, for another big event.

I cannot completely disagree with you.

But I personally think the government wont let it get that far.

Communication would be cut off so people can't communicate. We will be fed lies and the majority of the populace will fall for it. After all most believe msm anyways.

First sign of an all out revolution and I believe we will have a mysterious event that will unite us.

The government is 50 steps ahead of you, me, and everyone else. They pay people to come up with these types of scenarios.

But I do believe that the people will only put up with so much. But we are probably a century away from that.

You have to think logically.

With 80 million people plus owning guns and Americas standing armies only 3 million the odds are 16 to 1. Thats not good because an awful lot of the military said they will defend the Constitution and Bill of Rights .

Our Politicians are afraid of us and they have a right to be . Lets keep the scared of us and that will keep them honest and know that they will answer to us . You know the ones they work for !

Originally posted by liejunkie01
I cannot completely disagree with you.

But I personally think the government wont let it get that far.

Communication would be cut off so people can't communicate. We will be fed lies and the majority of the populace will fall for it. After all most believe msm anyways.

First sign of an all out revolution and I believe we will have a mysterious event that will unite us.

The government is 50 steps ahead of you, me, and everyone else. They pay people to come up with these types of scenarios.

But I do believe that the people will only put up with so much. But we are probably a century away from that.

You have to think logically.

Of course the Internet and other comms would be cut off, and the MSM deployed, but at that point this would cause a lot of people to question things.

The government is shoddily run, and while they have some clever ploys up their sleeves, we shouldn't put them into the godlike category. They are as human as anybody (perhaps less so) and so the mistakes are there. Their hubris and contempt for people will be their ultimate downfall.

reply to post by HattoriHanzou


I see what you mean.

Also do not overestimate your neighbor. People want to believe everything is and will be OK.

Take a real look at the people around you. Nobody is even talking of such a thing as revolution. People still think of the American dream. We are along way from any sort of uprising.

Originally posted by liejunkie01
reply to post by HattoriHanzou

 

I see what you mean.

Also do not overestimate your neighbor. People want to believe everything is and will be OK.

Take a real look at the people around you. Nobody is even talking of such a thing as revolution. People still think of the American dream. We are along way from any sort of uprising.

I see a lot of people who, every day, are more displeased with the actions of the Federal government. sure, they can still eat and relax and buy beer and such, but satisfaction with the government is headed sharply downward and this trend is not being addressed by those in power.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by Cynicaleye

 

Once again, soldiers are not mindless automatons, we do not just blindly follow orders.

Yes in nam a bunch of drugged out conscripts ( conscripts dont volunteer, they are forced at gun point to serve) did do a lot of things to little people, that looked nothing like them. This is in no way a primer for the modern ALL VOLUNTEER force we have at present.

These arent kids that are forced, under threat of inprisonment, to go to a country nobody in america at the time had even heard of, and fight a unknown people, blindly believing what they are told.

These people are just like all of you, they are on ATS, they are informed, they will have the ability to find the truth. This isnt the information dark ages anymore.

In closing your obviously just running off at the mouth about things you have n o clue about, ignorance is curable through study.......I suggest you get started, as your as ignorant of the soldiers minds your attempting to describe, as I am about wether your parents are siblings or not.

My my guess at present would be, yes. Your family tree has a very strong trunk, but the no branchs part...........

See how easy it is to through insults around that are baseless, and have no positive outcome on the discussion at hand?

Btw, yes it does insult me when you try to say that we are mindless automatons, that blindly follow the orders we are given, like we are a toaster or somthing.

I had one of the hardest skill sets in the entire military, I am quite proud of my service, and I will have words with anyone that attempts to portray my battle buddies in a very unfair light. The facts are obvious here.

You know nothing about soldiers, dont know any, and have never served. In the same sitiation do you kkow what smart people do?

They stfu and dont run off at the mouth about things they have no idea about.

Amen to that.

Also, don't bother with cynicaleye, he is a well known troll on ATS. He will meet his fate like other (banned) trolls have.

reply to post by HattoriHanzou


Yes they are they're buying ammo to fight us,not that agents or cops compare to a WHOLE BUNCH of war vets.
Organization?
I was in the cav we don't use that, we just go do it and adapt along the way.
That's usually what you have to do anyway.Find the bad guys observe how they operate shoot at them and kill them as they chase you.
Cops and agents aren't trained like us,young hispanic boys,DHS trained wouldn't have a prayer in HELL of countering us.
Don't try us, just comply with the Constitution and do what you promised.
Nobody wants what we do done in CONUS.

The military is going to attack us with smallpox and dirty bombs? You mean all those guys I went to highschool with who post pro second amendment and patriotic things on facebook all day? They are going to kill all of their friends and families without hesitation because some guy in a suit says so? No I don't think that is going to happen anytime soon.