Why are Americans deluded into thinking they could win a civil war?

reply to post by cavtrooper7

reply to post by inverslyproportional


I see what you guys mean, and I understand
where we differ in opinions is where the problem lies
I think the problem is the oblivious population
the government is an entity like any other entity created by man
if left unchecked it will try to expand and grow it's power
its like leaving the stove on while you sleep and then blaming the manufacturer for burning your house
the real enemy is selfishness, slot and ignorance that seems to be the norm now days

Originally posted by quietlearner
reply to post by region331

 

I see many problems with corruption, that is true
and I also think that a change is laws would not fix everything
because it's not just politicians but also a social problem about values
that's my opinion

The difference with corruption in the US (looking in, from outside) is that is seems to be so 'in your face'. Take the amount the parties spend on their election campaigns. It's like the Superbowl. Same goes for lobbying - it's accepted corruption, blatant.

The difference when it's so overt, is that it ends up being perceived as normal and accepted as part of the system.

Having said that, these are criticisms of the system that allows it, not the people.

I actually agree with what you're saying as well. It would honestly seem like they are intentionally trying to anger us all into a corner. It actually alarmed me a great deal initially but then I realized the above. No matter what it may seem, it does not appear to be a concerted effort but really an interplay of many groups that result in persistent ineffectual results.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


I find absolutely nothing inacurate in this statement, as it does seem this is probabky one of the only things holding up their plans. Your analogy of several groups playing marbles at the same time is about how I see it also.

What I am concered about though is, what happens when these groups stop being at odds, or when one or two win out over their competition and finally have their chance?

Originally posted by quietlearner
reply to post by cavtrooper7

 

reply to post by inverslyproportional

 

I see what you guys mean, and I understand
where we differ in opinions is where the problem lies
I think the problem is the oblivious population
the government is an entity like any other entity created by man
if left unchecked it will try to expand and grow it's power
its like leaving the stove on while you sleep and then blaming the manufacturer for burning your house
the real enemy is selfishness, slot and ignorance that seems to be the norm now days

Bingo! Too many of us are asleep at the wheel, happily just riding it out, instead of actively participating in order to keep them honest, and remind them on the regular who is really in charge.

It is like a dog, if you dont scold or punish it when it steals food from your plate, it will simply assume it is ok.

They would win but probably not in the ways you are thinking.

The average American who wants a civil war wants one because they know that the government is suppossed to serve them and not them the government. Our government has forgotten this.

I think because of drones and all the other technology that the government has right now they would wipe out most of the Americans rather easily, but then what are they left with??????

Not only will they be left with the dead bodies to clean up but they will also have to answer to the other half of the population who will finally come to an understanding of just how fracked up their precious president and his government is. With half the population wipped out the government has that many less people to feed off of because most of the dead would have been the hard working, freedom loving Americans who helped payed for the welfare for the other half.

If you get rid of the working class you are left with nothing but a bunch of mouths to feed.

Therefore we all win, we all lose. The end would have no sides.



I wish instead of war people would just get smarter and learn about who and what they are voting for before they vote for them.

reply to post by inverslyproportional


I've been pondering whether they are "asleep at the wheel" or not. Honestly, I think that most are aware that we have some serious problems. I think they just to do about it. Let's look at the options and how they might be perceived based on recent news articles and whatnot. 1. Protest--look at what happened to Occupy; they got beat up both for protesting and beat up the media. Makes protest seem like a pretty non-starting that just guarantees tear gas or batons to the head. 2. Voting--it's been fully ingrained in people that vote for the lesser of two evils is the better course which just allows for a continuation of party power and the issues we have. Or, with claims of voter fraud or, in the last election, claims that the vote no longer matters--some may be utterly disenfranchised. 3. Violent uprising--the majority of people are comfortable enough that they would prefer to potentially walked all over than to risk death. What people may see is a really complex, muddied to all hell, and diffuse problem with potential corruptions within our government from top to bottom. They just don't know how to fix it and so may keep their heads buried in the sands.

I came into this world kicking and screaming while covered in someone else's blood. I have no problem with going out the same way.

Originally posted by madenusa
I came into this world kicking and screaming while covered in someone else's blood. I have no problem with going out the same way.

Hah love that line! Bout says it all!

They’re playing a very dangerous game of chicken.
If they try what I think they might, but hope they don’t,civil unrest and economic disaster – might finally spiral into to utter chaos,
But then again, that may be exactly what they have in mind.
This might be a good time for me to add that no one’s taking my guns either. Period.
And if Dianne Feinstein orders me from her lofty perch on the left-coast to retroactively register them with some federal autocracy,
I think I might just forget I even have them. Tens of millions of law-abiding, Americans, feel the same way..........

reply to post by sajuek


You essay fails to realize one important fact. Most civil wars involve a portion or all of the military from the country in the civil war. Just as many officers, generals and regular soldiers have switched sides in Syria, the same would happen here. The military would most likely split into multiple parties if there was an actual civil war. All it would take is a large number of Americans to die before soldiers would begin to stand up for their families rather than the president.
You must also realize that the US constitution was design so we may have the ability to have a future civil war. The military allegiance is not as much to the president as it is to the constitution and the people. The most likely outcome of a civil war would be the split of the country without massive loss of life. States do have the right to leave the union if they would like. This is why many southerners consider Lincoln a traitor to this day. He attacked the south when they had the legal right to leave the union.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


Exactly, 1st amendment, the right of the people to peacefully assemble shall not be infringed. This means everything done to occupy was illegal, yet they demand we respect the law, while they break it stomp on it wioe their butt with it burn it then pee on the ashes. Hhhmmm seems this is kinda hypocritical IMHO. And completely at odds with the rule of law, either they are all equal, important and absolute. Or none of them matter and we are in an anarchy right now.

Which is it .gov?

The 2nd amendment, the right of the peolle to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed, which means new york, LA, and chicago are breaking the law, as they are not able to limit it in any fashion (every state in the union breaks this) legally.

Just on these 2 topics I have alreay lroven beyond doubt that the rule of law is nonexistant in this land.

Many of us vets have been having these conversations for years now, lets be honest, a bunch of freedom lkvers who joined for the right reasons are nkw sjtting aroind bored for many mkng hours on end every day for months and years at a time, guarding pine trees, sand, scrub grass etc... just like anyone else we get bored and talk. After 8 months together at 12 hours a day on duty we have all told all of our stories, we have talked about everything, so we move on to what ifs, it is just the nature trajectory of human interaction brought on by absokute boredom.

We have already parsed this all out. The only reason the .gov woukd do these things is that they dont respect law, they only respect what they want, no matter the cost to everyone else, no matter the situation ( with the exception of their personal safety, that is always priority one, followed by greed once they are safe.

I think a great many of you civies are not taking into account the understanding that comes al ok ng witb being used as and treated as a pawn. Once you sacrifice your own personal safety for an idea, and find out it is just a fantasy, it changes your world view forever, why do you think so many vets share the same views?

It isnt because we were brainwashed to have them, we have seen the bs, we have shoveled it, we have crawled through it, it has been thrown in our faces. We know the real score, and it is a lesson that I only know one way of learning. The hard way, and once you learn it the hard way, it tends to stick. Just like when a child learns the meaning of the word hot the hard way the first time, they will never, no matter whT happens forget it.

Lol wow, sorry for all the typos, I just got a new phone ( galaxy s3 fricking amazing BTW) and I am not used to the virtual keypad, every other smart phone I had had a slide out actual key pad, this thing interprets my typing like a crack baby having a bad day, or maybe I am just a crAp user, operator error as it were. I mean it changes my words I type correctly and makez them messed up somtimes, and capitalizes letters on itz own etc..... this thing is really pissing me off right now.

"Americans should just whistle themselves into slavery because the wolf has big weapons"

reply to post by inverslyproportional
You'r military bluster, like so many found on the net, is great when needed but often is used to bolster one's self esteem in public. I am not saying you necessarily because i don't know you. However, many years in chat rooms has made me wary of super-soldiers and their rap.
There are many of us vets who served and often we never bring it up unless when asked. You can usually tell you are talking to a "seasoned" vet by his knowledge of current events and realities from a militaristic view.
I'm not a hero and never claimed to be, however i served with "true hero's" that deserve respect. A respect that comes from years of close contact without the need to gloss over past combat exploits or enlighten strangers of their over-inflated military acumen.
To be true to the thread, however, requires none of this. The topic is serious. All too serious. It's possible America will meet it's end from within as described in yesteryear's assessments. If true Americans who will not tolerate the threat to the Constitution of the Republic and the Bill of Rights, and all attempts at a peaceful remedy is futile, should at least know their chances of being successful if it comes to confrontation.
Mr. sajuek is correct in his pessimism for all the reasons offered. The sad fact is we have allowed all that is necessary to safeguard our security to/will be used to crush any internal conflicts that are deemed to be a threat to National Security. If anyone doubts that and believes we will have the same weapons, funding and chain of command to counter U.S. and/or U.N. forces should quit reading the funny pages.

reply to post by inverslyproportional
You'r military bluster, like so many found on the net, is great when needed but often is used to bolster one's self esteem in public. I am not saying you necessarily because i don't know you. However, many years in chat rooms has made me wary of super-soldiers and their rap.
There are many of us vets who served and often we never bring it up unless when asked. You can usually tell you are talking to a "seasoned" vet by his knowledge of current events and realities from a militaristic view.
I'm not a hero and never claimed to be, however i served with "true hero's" that deserve respect. A respect that comes from years of close contact without the need to gloss over past combat exploits or enlighten strangers of their over-inflated military acumen.
To be true to the thread, however, requires none of this. The topic is serious. All too serious. It's possible America will meet it's end from within as described in yesteryear's assessments. If true Americans who will not tolerate the threat to the Constitution of the Republic and the Bill of Rights, and all attempts at a peaceful remedy is futile, should at least know their chances of being successful if it comes to confrontation.
Mr. sajuek is correct in his pessimism for all the reasons offered. The sad fact is we have allowed all that is necessary to safeguard our security to/will be used to crush any internal conflicts that are deemed to be a threat to National Security. If anyone doubts that and believes we will have the same weapons, funding and chain of command to counter U.S. and/or U.N. forces should quit reading the funny pages.

reply to post by madenusa

It's all psych-ops until someone does something stupid.

Originally posted by madenusa
They’re playing a very dangerous game of chicken.
If they try what I think they might, but hope they don’t,civil unrest and economic disaster – might finally spiral into to utter chaos,
But then again, that may be exactly what they have in mind.
This might be a good time for me to add that no one’s taking my guns either. Period.
And if Dianne Feinstein orders me from her lofty perch on the left-coast to retroactively register them with some federal autocracy,
I think I might just forget I even have them. Tens of millions of law-abiding, Americans, feel the same way..........

You are right, this is a dangerous game but if you look at the happenings of the last 10 years, they appear to have confidence in their mission.
They openly murder people to keep the status quo.
America is finished.
I will pray for americans because I know they have soul, most of them are good people who don't deserve whats' coming

Originally posted by Leuan
"Americans should just whistle themselves into slavery because the wolf has big weapons"

Lol, I was the guy who during my service, aimed the worlds largest sniper rifles, I know where they are, I know how to use them with the ridiculous accuracy needed to fire it from up to 15 kilometers away and hit a vehichle traveling at anh speed on the road in the passenger seat, with a 100 lbs bullet, made of a 30 lbs casing filled with 70 lbs of military grade high explosive.

This is not even close to dangerous compared to the mlrs I can aim and fire (800 lbs warhead with hundreds of miles of range).

The .gov does not have sole access to the abity to utilize our hardware, many of us can do it, and anyone can be taught with the right instruction, it is goof proof, STFU and pay attention, you will learn I will teach you by the numbers.......... it isnt really hard if your natural skill set is math and physics. I am just one lf these type of people.

You know where you are, you know where the observer feeding you coordinates is, he knows where the enemy is at, which means you now know where the target is at. A2+B2=C2. A squared plus B squared equals C squared, the Pythagorean theorem, simple math to a math major such as myself. Here is a link to show you how it works, this the principle concept behind the deadliest weapon in the history of warfare, the artillery, The King of Battle, which has killed more people than any other weapon ever in the history of man.

www.mathsisfun.com...

My bad guys, I thought the sole purpose of the government was to serve the people, but that's clearly not the case. I should have thought twice before questioning this stupid illusion

reply to post by dagann


Mine is not born of bluster and self importance, it is born confidence from serving in combat arms for 6 years. I know how this all works and goes.

You can try to use your pathetic attempt at talking down at me to try and make your misguided point all you want. I will challenge you to make one based in experience, not the bs ramblings of a pogey trykng to sound like he knows a damned thing about what he is saying.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional

Originally posted by Leuan
"Americans should just whistle themselves into slavery because the wolf has big weapons"

Lol, I was the guy who during my service, aimed the worlds largest sniper rifles, I know where they are, I know how to use them with the ridiculous accuracy needed to fire it from up to 15 kilometers away and hit a vehichle traveling at anh speed on the road in the passenger seat, with a 100 lbs bullet, made of a 30 lbs casing filled with 70 lbs of military grade high explosive.

This is not even close to dangerous compared to the mlrs I can aim and fire (800 lbs warhead with hundreds of miles of range).

The .gov does not have sole access to the abity to utilize our hardware, many of us can do it, and anyone can be taught with the right instruction, it is goof proof, STFU and pay attention, you will learn I will teach you by the numbers.......... it isnt really hard if your natural skill set is math and physics. I am just one lf these type of people.

You know where you are, you know where the observer feeding you coordinates is, he knows where the enemy is at, which means you now know where the target is at. A2+B2=C2. A squared plus B squared equals C squared, the Pythagorean theorem, simple math to a math major such as myself. Here is a link to show you how it works, this the principle concept behind the deadliest weapon in the history of warfare, the artillery, The King of Battle, which has killed more people than any other weapon ever in the history of man.

www.mathsisfun.com...

Math is fun. Math is fun!
How that goes from math is fun > LET'S BLOW PEOPLE UP FOR FUN, doesn't resonate with me. There are islamic fukwhits who are killing us, yes, but when does it stop?