Why are Americans deluded into thinking they could win a civil war?

reply to post by 31Bravo


Where the heck are people getting the idea that every member of the US military - in any capacity - would fire on citizens just because they were ordered to? Bad movies? Conspiracy Nuts? Alex Jones?

Perhaps a service member may, in a given circumstance, fire on a citizen. There might be isolated incidents. But it is an all volunteer force of people made up of Americans who's main desire in joining was defending the country. And by "defend the country" they mean the people, not the bridges and monuments. (Ok, some joined to get a job, but they arent firing on their neighbors either people!)

Seek out a serving military person in your extended family, or a vetran in your area and talk to them. Get the facts.

Originally posted by Druscilla

Originally posted by Darkphoenix77

Don't be obtuse, you know damn well everyone means the one up to the time our rights started getting usurped with the Patriot Act. Sorry if that sounds blunt, but I can't believe you honestly think anyone means anything different than what I just stated.

Okay, so, if we're going to rewind back to when Dubyah was in office, let's play it out like you were Prez back then.

The towers fall. You're Prez. Show us how to make paradise on earth. You've got 12 whole years to work with!
Go!

That wasn't my job, but sure....I'll play along.

I would resign my presidency because I sold my soul to the devil (corporate interests) years ago. If things would not have been allowed to get to this point 9/11 may very well have not even happened. That is assuming that you believe it was if not an inside job was allowed to happen (which I believe there is alot of evidence for).

If you mean under the assumption that it really was terrorists and we had no idea it was going to happen then I will go with this:

1. Tighten up security on airplanes and airports by employing armed conceal carry air marshalls and armed airport security.

2. Stop meddling in foreign countries and let them take care of thier own s**t. No attacks of provocation whatsoever, only go to war if another country is attacked first and then asks for help. Our foreign policy is why we are disliked by lots of foreigners.

3. Make a public televised speech calming everyone's fears and concerns by outlining a plan to deal with the disaster, assure public that every avenue would be explored to bring those responsible to be held accountable. Make the public aware to alert authorities in the event of suspicious activity and remind people to stay calm but vigilant. Remind the public that there is evil in the world, but we must endure and be an example to live up to instead of becoming that which we stand against.

4. Improve foreign relations to work with foreign countries to find those responsible without trampling on thier sovereignity. We would have had support as alot of countries I do really believe were shocked and truly saddened when this happened regardless of our foreign policies.

5. Under no circumstance would I have taken away the public's freedoms as a means to an end.

Regardless of what you think, unmanned drone strikes that do not take a countries sovereignity or public safety into account to MAYBE get a terrorist at the cost of several innocents that happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time is NOT OK. Use small strike teams with the cooperation of the country in question to work together to bring an end to extremist terrorism. Not flatter it by means of imitation.

Edit: Hard to believe these days that once upon a time we were looked up to and people actually wanted to come here to live and enjoy what we as a nation once stood for.

reply to post by Leonidas


They don't listen here, they just give us their educated opinions and try to tell us about our peers.
Like we are so singular that we are marginalized.

Originally posted by Leonidas
reply to post by 31Bravo

 

Where the heck are people getting the idea that every member of the US military - in any capacity - would fire on citizens just because they were ordered to? Bad movies? Conspiracy Nuts? Alex Jones?

Perhaps a service member may, in a given circumstance, fire on a citizen. There might be isolated incidents. But it is an all volunteer force of people made up of Americans who's main desire in joining was defending the country. And by "defend the country" they mean the people, not the bridges and monuments. (Ok, some joined to get a job, but they arent firing on their neighbors either people!)

Seek out a serving military person in your extended family, or a vetran in your area and talk to them. Get the facts.

edit on 26-2-2013 by Leonidas because: (no reason given)

You can't point at Alex Jones.....even he isn't THAT crazy!

Originally posted by sajuek
I see this posted a lot, and I'm completely baffled as well as bemused by the shortsightedness of members who claim that the "Free Peoples of the USA" could win an armed conflict against the US government gone full tyrant mode.

Why do they think this?

It could win a civil war easily. Here's why.

Dirty bombs, smallpox & biological warfare
Russia and the USA are the only countries in the world who keep live samples of Smallpox (despite international outcries for them to be destroyed) and they aren't there just for show. I imagine that this, along with any other lovely they have waiting in a lab to unleash on the world would be put to full effect in the case of civil war.

Say, a particularly virulent strain of the Spanish Flu, airborne Ebola, Cholera introduced to all major rivers. Any of these, let alone all of them would completely decimate any effective fighting force in a week and people would run to the government in droves for a cure.

Another surprise for the newly formed revolution would be tactical nuclear weapons and dirty bombs. Radiation poisoning is a bitch and don't think for a second that they wouldn't be used. Historically in conventional war, sides rarely employ chemical weapons because of fear that the enemy will do the same. It's almost a gentlemen's agreement.

Snipped for brevity...

And yet with all this magical Pandora's box of goodies and tricks they can't even route out a few thousand peasant insurgents with AK's and RPG's in Afghanistan and Iraq... And who are they going to get to fight for them in the US? Dupes like you? Americans are far better armed trained and resourceful then those insurgents with a generational ingrained culture of freedom and liberty even the sheeple know America is supposed to be a free country with the right to keep and bear arms..

Is this the best the Obama Cyber Warriors can come up with? And this propaganda gets repeated here by unwitting dupes.. LOL! www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by hawkiye


Obama's Cyber Warriors are mainly the rejects who worked at ACORN and the SEIU. Sadly, they aren't any less inept in their new jobs than they were in their old ones.

Oh well, it's amusing anyway!

This O/P is pure pro-gun control rhetoric, and ignores the failed histories of other such oppressors.

Originally posted by 1nquisitive
This O/P is pure pro-gun control rhetoric, and ignores the failed histories of other such oppressors.

On the contrary, the people who want to seize guns out of the hands of law abiding people know the histories of such oppressive actions. Their goal is to repeat them.

Don't even let a gun control advocate try to fool you with their lies about simply wanting to reduce the crime rate. John Lott destroys the idea that this works in his book More Guns, Less Crime. They know that in order to complete a full-bore Commie takeover of the USA, that they need to get the guns out of the hands of the individuals that would use them to destroy their would-be oppressors.

*** ATTENTION ***

KNOCK IT OFF - GET ON TOPIC.

In large part, this is a 'what if ' site, it encourages speculation and the sharing of ideas. It's sort of understandable when people tend to blur the lines between fantasy and reality, between fact and fiction, between 'wouldn't it be great if' rather than 'this is how it is'. It's no surprise then when the fantasy of taking action strikes a cord with many here.

The reality of course is different, but that won't stop anyone confusing the reality with fantasy here. It never has and I doubt never will.

On a side note, the machine from the movie total recall that implants fake memories based on preprogrammed scenarios would sell well, especially one were you can play a Robin Hood character set in modern day America..

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou

Originally posted by 1nquisitive
This O/P is pure pro-gun control rhetoric, and ignores the failed histories of other such oppressors.

On the contrary, the people who want to seize guns out of the hands of law abiding people know the histories of such oppressive actions. Their goal is to repeat them.

Don't even let a gun control advocate try to fool you with their lies about simply wanting to reduce the crime rate. John Lott destroys the idea that this works in his book More Guns, Less Crime. They know that in order to complete a full-bore Commie takeover of the USA, that they need to get the guns out of the hands of the individuals that would use them to destroy their would-be oppressors.

That's entirely my point

reply to post by TheOneElectric

The natural system of the state as we know it will begin to break down in the next 40 to 60 years due to the rising levels of technological innovation and economic cohesion/eventual dissolution.

I think the same was said during the Industrial revolution. What was the camp called that espoused this meme? Luddites, i do believe. Who was right and wrong then? What is different today?


V

An armed revolution in USA will NOT win
why?
because there will be no winner
the states will end up divided
warlords will rise to power
and you will end up with another Africa

this is the reality and it gets ignored because it is not fun or heroic
if you were patriotic, if you loved your country, violent revolution would be the last option
last option as in "there is no option left but self-destruction"
because that is what it would be, self-destruction

Originally posted by quietlearner
An armed revolution in USA will NOT win
why?
because there will be no winner
the states will end up divided
warlords will rise to power
and you will end up with another Africa

this is the reality and it gets ignored because it is not fun or heroic
if you were patriotic, if you loved your country, violent revolution would be the last option
last option as in "there is no option left but self-destruction"
because that is what it would be, self-destruction

Better to fight than willingly enslave yourself.

Guerilla war is great...it slowly chips away on your enemy until their resources are depleted, they turn on themselves demanding answers, and ultimately lessons are learned. Look at Vietnam...it still exits, fighting worked for them, right?

Originally posted by Variable
reply to post by TheOneElectric

 

The natural system of the state as we know it will begin to break down in the next 40 to 60 years due to the rising levels of technological innovation and economic cohesion/eventual dissolution.

I think the same was said during the Industrial revolution. What was the camp called that espoused this meme? Luddites, i do believe. Who was right and wrong then? What is different today?

Edit/update: Sorry i did not read the posters article till after I responded to you. I agree with you that poaster is dead wrong and is acting like the luddites


I tend to agree with technology helping free us with one major caveat and that is if the PTB manage to co-op new emerging technology and monopolize it with a few politically connected crony corps. However the trend in such tech seems to be toward empowering individuals and local businesses with open source technology to create many goods and services that that are normally manufactured in central locations and shipped across the country. That could contribute greatly to freeing us from monopolized industry and thus removing political power because of such monopolization.

Why go to Walmart and feed the beast when you can print out what you need on your 3D Printer? Or if you do not have a 3D printer you can got to the library or use a fiends or to a business that has one?

Originally posted by Variable
reply to post by TheOneElectric

 

The natural system of the state as we know it will begin to break down in the next 40 to 60 years due to the rising levels of technological innovation and economic cohesion/eventual dissolution.

I think the same was said during the Industrial revolution. What was the camp called that espoused this meme? Luddites, i do believe. Who was right and wrong then? What is different today?


V

I know that was not addressed to me but I will give it a go
the difference between now and then is technologies like the internet that create a paradigm shift
not to mention the modern exponential growth of technology
for example back then a 20 years of technological advancement was not a big jump
but today, 20 years means a huge jump
and the time required for new advances is just decreasing every year

200 years ago it was easy to predict what the world was going to look like in 20 or 40 years
can you predict what technologies we will have 20 or 40 years from now?

Originally posted by 1nquisitive

Better to fight than willingly enslave yourself.

Guerilla war is great...it slowly chips away on your enemy until their resources are depleted, they turn on themselves demanding answers, and ultimately lessons are learned. Look at Vietnam...it still exits, fighting worked for them, right?

the difference is that back then it was clear who you were and whom you were fighting
also the USA is not Vietnam, Texas is bigger than Vietnam