Was Jesus worshiped as God?

Scorpie

You needn't hang so much on a word. Thesaurus and dicitionary arguments are always weak. We know that the dead were venerated in Indo-European and Egyptian culture, including the offering of sacrifices to ordinary dead people. Moreover, in the Hellenistic culture surrounding Jesus' mission and the emergence of organized Christianity, "divinity" was a status that could be conferred by a majority vote of the Roman Senate.

So, maybe the better question is when did Jesus become worshipped as God? John 20: 28 reports Thomas, already established in that Gospel as a Jewish disciple, addressed the risen Jesus as "My Lord and my God." It's a little hard to explain that one as a polite greeting between two men. Roughly contemporary with the composition of John, we have Pliny the Younger reporting Christians singing hymns to Jesus "as if to a god," while reluctant to pay divine honors to the living godman Emperor, even to avoid death. So, by the early Second Century, Jesus is being treated as divine, even compared with others thought to be "divine."

Thomas's use of the word "Lord" to address Jesus is also telling. That is, of course, the Greek for Adonai, the common Jewish euphemism for the never-spoken name of God. It can be used other ways, but John's Thomas is kind enough to disambiguate it for Jesus and for us. The earliest Christian writing we have, the genuine epistles of Paul, also refer to Jesus as "Lord." Since we have no reason to think that Paul ever stopped being a Jew, he, too, is at least inviting the reading that in his view, Jesus is Adonai, that is, the Jewish God.

And that's as early as we can go. As far back as we can trace, there were followers of Jesus who thought him to be divine, although precisely what they thought that meant is always discussable. To the extent that the Gospels can be thought of as telling about Jesus' own ministry, the ones earlier than John, the synoptics, seem (to me at least) to be more concerned with the more practical question of whether or not Jesus is the Messiah.

When confronted with the most "unearthly" pre-crucifixion sign in the synoptics, the Transfiguration, even the three chosen disciples don't express the view that Jesus is God, or anything close to that. As to his Messiah-hood, John the Baptist is guarded in the synoptics, even though in John, he's on board even before the story begins.
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reply to post by Murgatroid


First of all there is no "God" just powerful spirits demanding obedience with threats of torture in the after life. Second, he has chosen the "side" of being oppressed and loosing spiritual abilities and becoming submissive and a slave to a god (Jesus/Yahweh) who is OK with slavery and never considered it a sin...

Third, Jesus/Yahweh is not even the real omnipresent "force", how do I know that they are liars, deceivers, deceptive beings? Because if they were omnipresent and hell existed then they must be there as well.

Finally these so-called "Gods" are being exposed and people are waking up to TRUTH. People have been brainwashed for WAAY too long.

reply to post by Murgatroid


But all other religions also state...that "other" gods are false...that theirs is the right one.

Why should I trust any religion over another ?

Which one scores the most points?

The one you grew up in probably....

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Example 2 : When the angel tells John that he should worship (proskuneo) only God when John fell down to worship the angel.(Revelations 22:9)

Yet, at the same time, Jesus said that the angel was "mine angel" and said "I am Alpha and Omega."

Revelation 22:16

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Revelation 22:12-13

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Murgatroid

 

All the scripture you cited is from a man named Paul, who never once met Jesus.

I see you're trying to jump on the "Paul is an impostor" bandwagon.

Unfortunately, you failed to realize that some of those verses were from John and John had as much to say about the matter as Paul.

reply to post by eight bits

When confronted with the most "unearthly" pre-crucifixion sign in the synoptics, the Transfiguration, even the three chosen disciples don't express the view that Jesus is God, or anything close to that.

Peter asked Jesus if they should build three tabernacles in honor of Jesus, Moses and Elijah? It sounds to me like for a moment that he thought all three of them were a divine part of God until the Holy Spirit appeared through a bright cloud to quickly point out the significance of Jesus being his Son. I'm pretty sure he knew that Jesus was more than just a prophet after that.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly

Why should I trust any religion over another ?

Which one scores the most points?

I say it's the one where the last man is standing.

After everything the Jews have been through, they are still a people living back in the land (surrounded my enemies no less) whereas the civilizations that worshiped these other gods are pretty much non-existent at this point in history.

Again??

Jesus is God Incarnate. It's been proven over and over.
Scripture is very clear ... fully man and fully God.
The ANGELS OF HEAVEN worshipped Jesus as God Incarnate.

I understand that some people feel the deep need to try to take away the Divinity of Jesus. It makes them nervous because it makes their own religious beliefs glaringly obsolete. Whatever.

Jesus was worshipped as God .. and still is .. because He is God Incarnate.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Some religions do worship Jesus as God. Like protestant know accoording to their book jesus is born from a virgin, however through the generations somehow MAN has manipulated Jesus into God incarnated.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Jesus is God Incarnate. It's been proven over and over.

FlyersFan, how has it been "proven over and over" ?? I find nothing to support it at all except some archaic Scripture that the council decided to compile and spread, based on hearsay. And those "reports" do not agree with one another.

It can't be proven. It can only be "believed." Simply being able to point to a verse in the OT and then one in the NT where Jesus is presented as "fulfilling" the OT verse in question doesn't constitute "proof" (it was the book he followed, after all!). Scripture doesn't prove anything except that PARTS of the "Scripture" coincide. Much else does not, and actually contradicts other parts.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Jesus is God Incarnate. It's been proven over and over.

FlyersFan, how has it been "proven over and over" ??

Let me rephrase. It has been proven to Scorpion over and over using scripture quotes. Thread after thread after thread. Certain posters keep bringing up that scripture doesn't support that Jesus is God incarnate .. and certain posters seem pretty darn determined to try to get Christians not to think Jesus is God incarnate, because THEIR RELIGION depends on Jesus not being God incarnate. If Jesus is God incarnate, then the religion of those posters who are trying to say otherwise becomes obsolete.

I can't answer your post any other way and still stay in the T&C of the site.
I hope I made the response more clear.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Let me rephrase. It has been proven to Scorpion over and over using scripture quotes.

Scorpion has also proven that Jesus is not God over and over again using scripture quotes.

because THEIR RELIGION depends on Jesus not being God incarnate.

But you don't even have a religion!
You say you are a Christian, yet you hold negative views of Abraham and Moses. It seems you have made your own religion that involves Jesus, but excludes Moses and Abraham.

reply to post by FlyersFan

I can't answer your post any other way and still stay in the T&C of the site.
I hope I made the response more clear.

Yes'm.
It did make it more clear.
I have no religion to defend, btw, in case your T&C-suppressed thoughts were directed at me.

What matters to me is TRUTH. Not anyone's defensiveness or desperation to believe something that isn't proven.
Anyway, thanks for your time and effort in responding.

Originally posted by wildtimes
in case your T&C-suppressed thoughts were directed at me.

No. Not towards you. Ya'll are fine.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Scorpion has also proven that Jesus is not God over and over again using scripture quotes.

Um .. no. You IGNORE the quotes that show Jesus is God incarnate, and instead focus on the quotes showing him to be human. Jesus is fully god and fully human according to scripture. You only pick those things which help you in your QUEST to try to make Christians think Jesus isn't God Incarnate.

But you don't even have a religion! .

My spiritual and religious beliefs are irrelevant. What I said stands ...
We have a ton of threads about Jesus being God Incarnate.
Why another one????

reply to post by FlyersFan

Certain posters here are trying in thread after thread after thread to try to take away the Divinity of Jesus because THEIR religion depends on Jesus not being God Incarnate. With scripture supporting that Jesus is God Incarnate, their religion is obsolete.

hey ff,
i guess you can use the word 'muslims' in place of 'certain posters'
you shouldnt get annoyed just because of a thread. I know how it feels as i have experienced it when certain posters abuse my religion but this is a section meant for raising and discussing these questions. Dont you repeat the same things about islam when you have been repeatedly replied to about those accusations. You dont buy it and we dont buy God incarnate theory. fair enough! right?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Jesus was not worshiped as God... because he himself said only God has to be worshiped.

Why do we have to worship "God"? My parents never asked me to worship them...

You would think such a being would be less worried about being appreciated and more worried about cleaning up the mess he made. In fact, I daresay that might take care of the whole appreciation problem as well.

The people who say Jesus was god , had to do many things to bring god down as to fit into their new definition.

But , was god that low ?

Halleluiah , Subhanallah.

Church has betrayed it's own share to religion.

They did some big wrong thing that hey had to stand against truth to follow their old path of lies.

The path was continuing when they killed scientists , when they butchered American true ancestors.
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But when they lost , they lost everything.

We see that they allow gays marry in church while they know it is not what god intended.

Peace be upon the one who follows the guidance.

reply to post by logical7

thats interesting, however the reply i get to that is that Jesus pbuh was manifesting his 'fully man' side. I would like to know what you think of that, maybe you get it better somehow because i dont see it as anything other than justification.

That would mean that Jesus was doing things himself.... Yet he said otherwise...

Over and over again he said "the work I do, is not of myself but my father who sent me"

It seems to me this is just another argument for Christians to maintain Jesus was God in the flesh...

Unfortunately anyone who's actually read his words knows HE did not claim to be God, or God in the flesh... Or anything close...

HE said he was Gods son... He did not say I AM GOD

He was fully man, with the essence of his Father within....

IF he claimed to be God I would happily convert to Christianity...Knowing full well that my God came in the flesh... Unfortunately I KNOW he did not ever make that claim.... And Gods son came in the flesh

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

reply to post by Deetermined


Meaning.... the first and last Adam. This is why his last words were "Its finished".

We are the fallen. We have descended into the material only to rise or ascend in the spirit. This is our purpose.

Jesus is not God. He is the first creation of man from the father, higher above the Angels. He represents God in the most highest, but is not God.

The church for thousands of years have starved the sheep, but sooner than later the Word will come back and reveal all the secrets.

Words matter.... The Word is powerful and will indeed bring truth the next go around as it will be the last.

www.abovetopsecret.com... is a really good thread to get anyone started on the Fallen. When one studies ancient texts, he finds mystery after mystery that also reveals that which has been kept from us.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Jesus asked his disciples, 'who do men say I am?' And they said, some say Elijah, some say John the Baptist and some say an old prophet.' Then he asked them, 'but who do YOU say I am?' and Peter said, 'You're the Christ.' And Jesus said, 'blessed are you Peter because only God could have told you this.'

At a later point it says that God gave power over everything in the universe to Jesus. So Jesus clearly has a divine nature. He's not just a man. He's a part of God that incarnated for a little while.