Was Oswald really shot?

I found this discussion: cluesforum2.info...

I'd never really thought about it being faked before, but the whole Oswald being shot by Jack Ruby thing has always seemed weird to me. In the videos, you can clearly hear a long honk, followed by a short honk, which could have been Ruby's cue. Oswald doesn't bleed and one shot in the abdomen likely wouldn't kill someone. What do you guys think?

Sort of unrelated, but someone mentioned in another thread that Ron Paul has un uncanny resemblance to Lee Harvey Oswald. Makes you wonder...

Funny this came up because about 2 weeks ago after watching JFK I thought the same thing.

But no to your Ron Paul link.

I also thought this could be a message. Don't talk or lose you life.

reply to post by broctune


I don't know, but we the people are REALLY stupid if we fell for that.

I have always thought it unlikely that LHO was acting alone, and doubts they he was the only shooter. The Ruby assassination of LHO is very suspicious, on many levels. Could have definitely have been organized and "executed" by the CIA.

Not sure there would have been a lot of reason to keep LHO alive though. He had served his purpose, and if a CIA plot then he had to know he was doomed. Is it possible he is sipping, or was, drinks with umbrellas in the, somewhere? I don't say no to anything any more, but it seems unlikely he was spared.

Originally posted by Jchristopher5
reply to post by broctune

 

I don't know, but we the people are REALLY stupid if we fell for that.

I have always thought it unlikely that LHO was acting alone, and doubts they he was the only shooter. The Ruby assassination of LHO is very suspicious, on many levels. Could have definitely have been organized and "executed" by the CIA.

Not sure there would have been a lot of reason to keep LHO alive though. He had served his purpose, and if a CIA plot then he had to know he was doomed. Is it possible he is sipping, or was, drinks with umbrellas in the, somewhere? I don't say no to anything any more, but it seems unlikely he was spared.

Ya not sure there was any benefit behind keeping Oswald alive. If anything it posed as a huge threat.

reply to post by broctune


Just commenting on the one aspect for now. One shot to the abdomen, at point blank range, would be not just potentially fatal, but in fact is a very difficult wound for doctors to treat. Gut shot is a horrible thing. There aren't really many paths a bullet can take, through the gut, that do not directly compromise major organs. Sepsis and multiple points of internal hemorrhage are common with these wounds.

A single shot, especially point blank - with all of the energy being absorbed by the body, would likely disrupt or take out multiple organs at once.

~Heff

I believe he was shot in the lower part of the left side of his chest. The bullet hit a bunch of organs and his aorta.

The bullet was even recovered from what I understand.

So I think he was actually shot and did die from the event.

reply to post by broctune

Oswald doesn't bleed and one shot in the abdomen likely wouldn't kill someone. What do you guys think?

Well, he did bleed, quite naturally, and since when does a shot to the stomach produce an "unlikely" death? See Heff's post above, that explains how someone theoretically could suffer a lot of damage from such a shot - something Oswald was a victim of, receiving a great deal of damage there, as anyone else would, and there was pretty much a long shot in terms of survival too. Simply saying being shot in the stomach doesn't kill isn't enough information either. Hell, people can also die from shots to the arms or leg's, yet some others out there miraculously survive certain shots to the head etc.

I suggest, for those who want a bit of an insight into the actions took place to save him, they read this, beginning at page 129 of the book titled "Trauma Room One: The JFK Medical Coverup Exposed". It provides a bit more detail than the simple use of the term "shot in the stomach" and provides a more accurate imagery of his injuries sustained, and more..

Sort of unrelated, but someone mentioned in another thread that Ron Paul has un uncanny resemblance to Lee Harvey Oswald. Makes you wonder...

Forgive me, but.. Seriously? I mean no offence but this is why it's sometimes hard to continue discussing this, my favourite topic, here on ATS.. If I'm being completely honest.

I agree that there was no reason to keep Oswald alive. That is one thing that doesn't make much sense. Maybe he was a CIA asset and they had other uses for him. Total speculation though. The scene of Oswald being shot is so odd though.
As for Jack Ruby, his patriotism is a question mark. I read rumors he was a CIA bagman. It would make more sense that he was killing a patsy to keep him from talking than just a patriot upset the about the presidential assasination.

Originally posted by Rising Against

Sort of unrelated, but someone mentioned in another thread that Ron Paul has un uncanny resemblance to Lee Harvey Oswald. Makes you wonder...

Forgive me, but.. Seriously? I mean no offence but this is why it's sometimes hard to continue discussing this, my favourite topic, here on ATS.. If I'm being completely honest.

edit on 20-2-2013 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)

Agreed. If we can concede that Paul is a shill, and also that the Kennedy assassination (in Texas) was a staged event, then it's not all that big of a stretch to think there could be a connection. They look eerily similar.

I've never read anything that would be even remotely consistent with Lee Harvey Oswald ever becoming a physician, so I wouldn't lend a lot of cred to any links between Paul and Oswald. Just my opinion though.

BTW, my favorite subject as well. So many great things were about to happen and were stopped by the assassination, and it pretty much ended any trust or legitimacy to US government.

The Ron Paul thing was a side note. It really isn't what I was hoping to focus on in this thread. I'm indifferent about Ron Paul, so I couldn't care less if he's "Lee Harvey Oswald" or not.

I mainly would like to talk about the shooting of Lee Harvey Oswald and whether or not it was fakery.

reply to post by broctune


I have a thread in the RATS forum called "Footage of Lee Harvey Oswald", there's a video out there somewhere of Oswald alive and well in Siberia circa 1980's.

Originally posted by broctune
I found this discussion: cluesforum2.info...

I'd never really thought about it being faked before, but the whole Oswald being shot by Jack Ruby thing has always seemed weird to me. In the videos, you can clearly hear a long honk, followed by a short honk, which could have been Ruby's cue. Oswald doesn't bleed and one shot in the abdomen likely wouldn't kill someone. What do you guys think?

I've never thought of this either, mainly because of what Heff stated. Have you ever seen a person up close thats been shot in the gut? Even if (and it's a big "IF" ) Oswald survived the shooting, he wouldn't be in any shape to magically turn into Ron Paul later in life. Oswalds dead, and even though there is a guy in Russia that looks like him, he's still dead.

Sort of unrelated, but someone mentioned in another thread that Ron Paul has un uncanny resemblance to Lee Harvey Oswald. Makes you wonder...

Not really, it's just because they have a simular shaped head. Dick Clark had a simular head shape.

Originally posted by broctune
The Ron Paul thing was a side note. It really isn't what I was hoping to focus on in this thread. I'm indifferent about Ron Paul, so I couldn't care less if he's "Lee Harvey Oswald" or not.

I mainly would like to talk about the shooting of Lee Harvey Oswald and whether or not it was fakery.

If the shooting of Oswald was fake, then how? (it' a good thought exercise. How do you fake a live broadcast shooting using 1960's technologies?)

***PERSONAL NOTE***

While I will stand by my belief that the IMC (specifically the Oil Faction) is behind JFKs death, I will also stand by the belief that Oswald was killed as a way of covering up a small piece of the story.

***END PERSONL NOTE***

Sometimes in an investigation you have to look at what isn't there along with what is. In the advent of Oswald's death, there was no trial. Had he lived, he would most certainly either be exposed as a lone nut or he would divulge who his co-conspirators were. It was a very convenient death for a deeply-involved conspiracy. His statements under interrogation from the time of his arrest until he was assassinated are pretty much erased from the record. I think there may be about one page from a notepad from one of the officers somewhere, but not much else.

Ruby was a mobster by association (probably kind of a clown, but I never met the guy so maybe that's not fair). After years of denial of La Cosa Nostra by J Edgar Hoover, Bobby Kennedy was exposing organized crime with the full support of his brother the President. It doesn't make sense that Ruby would kill Oswald because of any sympathy he had for JFK. That was the only plausible reason for killing Oswald, unless. . . Ruby's uncanny and elusive statements prior to his death gave one the impression that he couldn't expose a truth under some sort of threat.

So, could the assassination be faked? Maybe. If not, the implication is that Ruby was part of a bigger plan (bigger than Oswald too) and they needed to shut Oswald up. That's the direction I tend toward, but then again that's my personal opinion.

Originally posted by lynxpilot
Sometimes in an investigation you have to look at what isn't there along with what is. In the advent of Oswald's death, there was no trial. Had he lived, he would most certainly either be exposed as a lone nut or he would divulge who his co-conspirators were. It was a very convenient death for a deeply-involved conspiracy. His statements under interrogation from the time of his arrest until he was assassinated are pretty much erased from the record. I think there may be about one page from a notepad from one of the officers somewhere, but not much else.

Ruby was a mobster by association (probably kind of a clown, but I never met the guy so maybe that's not fair). After years of denial of La Cosa Nostra by J Edgar Hoover, Bobby Kennedy was exposing organized crime with the full support of his brother the President. It doesn't make sense that Ruby would kill Oswald because of any sympathy he had for JFK. That was the only plausible reason for killing Oswald, unless. . . Ruby's uncanny and elusive statements prior to his death gave one the impression that he couldn't expose a truth under some sort of threat.

So, could the assassination be faked? Maybe. If not, the implication is that Ruby was part of a bigger plan (bigger than Oswald too) and they needed to shut Oswald up. That's the direction I tend toward, but then again that's my personal opinion.

Lets not forget that it was George de Mohrenschildt that got Oswald his job in Dallas. We also know that almost everything we know about Oswald during this time comes from George de Mohrenschildt, an individual that has major connections with big oil.

I know security was lax in the 60's (Kennedy even had the top off his limo) but any time criminals are transported, there are cops surrounding them. There's security, bulletproof vests, armor. How could a random nightclub owner get that close to Oswald? It looks like it was staged.

Originally posted by twitchy
reply to post by broctune

 

I have a thread in the RATS forum called "Footage of Lee Harvey Oswald", there's a video out there somewhere of Oswald alive and well in Siberia circa 1980's.

I'm looking for it. Where is the RATS forum?

Originally posted by broctune
I know security was lax in the 60's (Kennedy even had the top off his limo) but any time criminals are transported, there are cops surrounding them. There's security, bulletproof vests, armor. How could a random nightclub owner get that close to Oswald? It looks like it was staged.

Ruby wasn't some random nightclub ower. He was well known by Dallas PD at the time. He was also seen hanging around the police station after Oswald was arrested impersonating a newspaper reporter. This was only one of the factors that allowed Ruby to get close to Oswald for the shot. If you take a look at the moment right before he shoots Oswald, Ruby could easily be attempting to put a microphone up to Oswald to get a coment on whatever.

As for the Limo:
Secret Service was not happy with the thought of JFK riding around in it. They even tried to get JFK to put a protective dome on the car. So in the end the Limo having no top on it was JFKs idea.

Originally posted by Guyfriday

Originally posted by broctune
I know security was lax in the 60's (Kennedy even had the top off his limo) but any time criminals are transported, there are cops surrounding them. There's security, bulletproof vests, armor. How could a random nightclub owner get that close to Oswald? It looks like it was staged.

Ruby wasn't some random nightclub ower. He was well known by Dallas PD at the time. He was also seen hanging around the police station after Oswald was arrested impersonating a newspaper reporter. This was only one of the factors that allowed Ruby to get close to Oswald for the shot. If you take a look at the moment right before he shoots Oswald, Ruby could easily be attempting to put a microphone up to Oswald to get a coment on whatever.

As for the Limo:
Secret Service was not happy with the thought of JFK riding around in it. They even tried to get JFK to put a protective dome on the car. So in the end the Limo having no top on it was JFKs idea.

I agree about Ruby, He was apparently buddies with all sorts of DPD cops, one of his closest associates being J D Tippitt. I think he let them carouse in his nightclubs to keep favor with them.

As for the top on the limo, it was just plastic and was not meant for bullet protection.

Originally posted by Guyfriday
As for the Limo:
Secret Service was not happy with the thought of JFK riding around in it. They even tried to get JFK to put a protective dome on the car. So in the end the Limo having no top on it was JFKs idea.

Video Of Secret Service Being Ordered Away From JFK's Side...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

At best, the Secret Service was hardly on the ball on that day and I'm still not convinced Greer didn't just turn around and shoot him himself, there's frames missing and some other likely manipulations to the film but that would sure explain why Jackie bailed out of the back of the car, I don't buy the 'retrieving brains' crap at all.

What we need is an audio guru to go back to the original audio of Jack Rubenstien's shot and see if sounds like a blank or a bullet, there should be a detectable difference. Check out the RATS thread I posted earlier about the footage of oswald, I'd sure like to get another look at that video. My wife is the only other person that saw it before it vanished from my computer and I've been trying to find another copy of it for about fifteen years now.