Moors in European Coat Of Arms

reply to post by Malcher

You used the term "Dark Ages" in your OP and it was used many other times. The term, specifically as it is used here is not accurate. Even WaterBottle in the third post stated (paraphrasing) "The Moors pulled Europe out of the Dark Ages". If we were to look at it that way then the whole world was in a "dark age". Even still, much of what gets perpetuated about the European so called "Dark Ages" is exaggerated

Post made by me page 1

This presentation by Dr. Jose Pimienta-Bey is a fantastic account of who the Moors were, how they gained power in the Iberian Pennisula today know as Spain and Portugal and even more importantly, how they lost power. Many of us dont know that African (Moors) along with Arabs, ruled Spain from 711 A.D. 1492 A.D. They made considerable contributions to Europe who was going through the Dark Ages. The Moors contributed to science, medicine, Art, Mathematics, Agriculture, etc.

This was part of the video description made by the up-loader..


Ok I did used the term Dark-ages you are indeed correct allow me to eat the above got hot sauce??..
But really apologies..

Originally posted by n1000
oh have you seen benedict XVI coat of arms and the moor head in there?

Yes I have interesting story behind that will respond later including the other post.

reply to post by n1000

if we want to look the moors as a race then wat was the race of the majoraty of the moors?the moors were white cos the population was white. if we want to look the moors as a religion then wat was the religion of the majority of the moors?probably was catholic cos probably the majority of the population was catholic. if we want to look to the moors as tribe then the moors were a western european tribe,cos the population was western european. when things started to crumble some moors turned catholic n fight against the moors that came from north africa.if we look at the moors that way then the moors were the berbers that time. centuries after that,when portuguese and spanish were fightin in north africa,they said they were fightin the moors but even then moors werent exclusive for any race,religion or tribe.moors were everythin that moved against them. after that some portuguese wanted to build an army and free jerusalem from the moors.moors in jerusalem?!

You have to look at dynasties and even individuals,, Moorish Iberia for the most part was in effect a bunch of city states. the first conquest was made by by a Syrian refugee who had some connection to north Africans, but the Arab component were the minority in this venture although they were the nominal boss, but things soured because of ethnic rivalries and civil wars occurred along "racial" lines true Arabic was the written language of transmission for various groups but in fact they were in the minority, a time came when Africans from the Senegal organized conquered most of north west Africa and crossed over into Spain they were under no Arab control followed by the Almohad banked rolled by Mali.

Again I said the archetype of a Moor was a black even before Islam for the term is Greek and the Romans used to describe certain north Africans see page 1 , but while all blacks were Moors all moors weren't actually black.
The Dna stuff that I posted if you don't it find credible then you have to take issue with the Spanish bio people who put it out there.

Originally posted by n1000
oh have you seen benedict XVI coat of arms and the moor head in there?

The Arms of Pope Benedict

The oldest known use of his image on any coat of arms was created around 1300 AD by Bishop Emicho of Wittelsbach in Skofja Loka, Slovenia. The town of Freising, Germany's oldest known coat of arms dates to 1362, which included the head of the Moor along with the bear he supposedly defeated while traveling with Bishop Abraham of Freising. The legend says that Freising's Moor was a servant, however, the crown atop his head may refute said legend. The archdiocese of Munich, the Pope, and several Bavarian municipalities continue to use depictions of the "Freising Moor" on their official coats of arms, a testament to the presence and authority of Africans in medieval Europe. Later, "Maurus" (in the form of Maurice, Moritz and Morien, etc.) became synonymous with not only the aforementioned, but numerous blacks of high regard. Sir Morien, for example, was a knight thoroughly described in the Dutch version of Lancelot (1300s AD) as "all black....his head, his body, and his hands were all black, saving only his teeth."
www.taneter.org...

Maybe Ratzinger was calculating his use of the Moor of Fresing for his coat of arms trying to induce Africans to either join or stay with the Church while many in the West are abandoning it,also interesting is his Papal name Benedict named after an African Saint by that name.

St.Benedict The Moor

Saint Benedict of Palermo St. Benedict of Palermo (1524-1589) was the first Christian saint of African origin to be canonized in modern times. Born in Sicily (then part of Spain) his parents were freed slaves, said to have come from Ethiopia. In the early 1600’s he was widely venerated in Italy, Spain and Latin America. The statue carved in Sevilla, Spain in the 1730’s captures the saint’s charismatic personality. The glass eyes and bone teeth, his life-like expression, wide spread arms, expressive hands and the movement of his garments add to the animated look of the statue. It’s really quite impressive! Roman Catholic saint, Benedict of Palermo (1526-89), who was born into a family of African slaves in Sicily, led an exemplary life as a Franciscan monk there, and was canonized in 1807. This saint is sometimes referred to as Benedict the Moor or Benedict the African, and in the sculpture his racial identity is emphatically conveyed: his grave face and extended hand are a rich ebony black, their darkness framed and amplified by the brilliant gilding of his robe. By the time this sculpture was carved around 1734, Benedict had long since attracted an ardent following, in Europe, in the colonial Americas and in Africa. Today he’s the official patron saint of African-America, with churches in his honor from Bahia to the Bronx. And images of him, no matter how stylistically varied, continue to combine traces of Renaissance Europe and of Africa. In him the two are inseparable, are one.
diasporicroots.tumblr.com...

Actually Moors figures prominently in coat of arms often appearing as Bishops and for the original purpose of this thread we were dealing with Christian Moors both mythological and actual like Sir Morien and Sir Pallmades of King Author's fame.
www.pbs.org...
www.pbs.org...
www.pbs.org...
These PBS link have some really good info of the allegorical nature of some of the Moorish symbolism in medieval Europe ..pls klik^^

reply to post by Spider879


the first conquerer was Tariq ibn Ziyad that was under the orders of Musa Ibn Nusayr,general of the north of africa.he himself was under the orders of Umayyad Caliph Al-Walid in damascus.

arab were a minority as african were a minority.they all were always a minority.
the first rulers were arabs n the africans were mostly berber that were part of the army,prob the majority of the army were berber,they were the infantry.africans didnt had better luck here than they had in north of africa ruled by arabs.some of them were slaves.


the ones that came next were even worse for them.
the almoravid and almohad were fundamentalist religious movements and if you know the al andalus history you know they turned al andalus into civil war pretty much cos no one really liked them,not even the al andalus muslim.poor africans who followed that religious movements.
the little time almoravid and almohad had any real power in andalus was the decline of al andalus.that was their biggest achievement.


theres no moorish iberia,that never existed.
no arab,or african,or catholic or muslim called himself moor in al andalus.

You ask...you get..... Moors (Amerindians) called blacks today were at war ( Muurs warring against Moors) with each other. This war is term by the whites, the "American Revolution." The Mu 'urs/ Amurru (Blacks) weakened each other, the Moorish Empire was crumbling to the point that they with many treaties created world governments of kings and Queens, including Marriages between Royal Bloodlines ( Europeans ) and imperial blood lines (Blacks). The Moorish Empire is now called the British Empire. My Ancestors put the Kings and Queen of what is now Europe/England and Scotland in charge over the Moorish Empire. During the Wars between the Moors (Known by the indoctrinates as the American Revolution). Some of the Moor's Country names in what is known as America today were Great Britain, "British".....The original Britains/ Anglo saxons were black folks, so were the Kings and Queens of England and Scotland. international.loc.gov... Most Europeans came here as slaves and took on their black slave master's name. England was in the Americas during the Colonial (colonizing) period of the whites. Look around you and you will find most white people do not have European last names. They have their slave master's name from the americas or like Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, George Wa#aw, known to the indoctrinates as George Washington and the like, their fathers married into black tribes, in particular the Tunica Tribe, within the Wa#aw Nation of pure black folks, not slaves my friend. There are treaties with this tribe (of Black aboriginal folks). Your make believe white history is a pure lie, even your great white scholars cannot refute it.....You want to talk about slavery with out proper research?..I see....Find a sunken slave ship off the eastern seaboard, ..there isn't any....Yes, I know, its more proof of your white historical lies. You will see, even to this very day we continue to appear in U.S. Court to claim our stolen land. Some Court cases to this effect: (1) 1848 U.S. Supreme Court ruling in the case of the “U.S. Government vs. The Heirs of Henry Turner” (Tunica Moors), in which the High Court found that "The Neutral Strip” (2,961,983.5 acres of land) was definitely not a part of the territory ceded to the United States" (Louisiana Dept. of Transportation, 1940), (2) the 1992 return of 68,883 acres of land by the State of Louisiana (Land Grant #923/1991), designated "Wa#aw Proper;" and (3) "Wa#aw Terra" including The Floridas. ( The Original Barbary Coast) I have attached two United states Supreme Court cases in which the Wa#aw won these cases: supreme.justia.com... ; and supreme.justia.com... I HAVE NEVER SEEN ( guarantee, neither have YOU) ANY WHITE PEOPLE/ EUROPEANS/ EUROPEAN-AMERICA PERSON HAVING THE SOVEREIGN ABILITY TO LAY CLAIMS TO ANY LAND IN THE AMERICAS NOR IN EUROPE IN THEIR VERY OWN COURTS ANY WHERE.....Now you are aware, where you can shove your damn "Lame-Ass" "discoveries.".... and your lying Sh*t-Ass Slave Stories. The United Nations High Commission for Human Rights recognizes the self-declarations of indigenous peoples, and acknowledges Uaxashaktun (Empire Wa#aw) as "The oldest indigenous people on Earth," and assigned UN Grant Application #215 (1993) to the Wa#aw Moors. The United States has recognized Amurru Wa#aw de Dugdahmoundyah as an indigenous people of North America and had under consideration in the 105th Congress (H.R. #260), The Guadalupe-Hidalgo Treaty Land Claims Act of January, 1997. The Amurru Wa#aw Dedugdahmoundyah Muurs (Moors) were originally a group of priest from Egypt, also known as the Dogon/Olmecs/Mayans. The term Wa#aw is a corruption of Ursahtaw, the father and mothers of the mystics. In Egyptian, Ursahtaw is Urrashet, the winged sun disk, which symbolizes the highest knowledge, the pineal gland being open. international.loc.gov... You want to tell history, first you have to do like I did, go to the National Archives and get copies of "OLD MAPS" so when you study history you will know where these countries were at the time history was being made, and you will know who are the people making these great historical significance. For an example.....The Moors have been in the Americas for over 10,000 years. In the Americas before the 1800's they were called the French, Indians, British, Spanish and many other names which are more Ancient, like Olmec, Aztec, Mayans, etc, and even much more ancient names than the previous.....Most recently, within the last hundred years or so, they were called Black, Negro, Colored, Mulatto, Afro- American and African- American. The White governments of this world got together and stole the names England/France and Spain from the Americas and renamed parts of Europe with these stolen names. So when One read or is told history of France, England and Spain, One would believe its European (white people) history and not the Aboriginal Moor's ( Black People's History), that was actually made right here in the Americas and not in Europe. As a matter of fact this Moor's History (Black History) being stolen and now being attributed to whites has nothing to do with whites. This is why One has to research "old Maps" to gather the truth of where these lands were, and who were the people on that land that made that history before the whites pulled the switch and bait, and what they were called during the time period this stolen history was being made in that area. So that you can recognize when the Caucasians pulled the switch and bait historical lies, and dis-spell these historical lies of Moorish (Black) History in which they are trying to contribute to themselves. The European Society taking part in this fraud and cover-up know they haven't contributed "Jack-#" of importance to history, Art and the Sciences on the world stage ( the young and old whites of today, do not know any better) so they steal our history, call it theirs, then rewrite history with the largest emphasis on "Blacks being Slaves." The reverse psychology is, once you accept the largest white washed historical lies that blacks were slaves, then, "what else is left"..."nothing"... This is the sole purpose of white distorted history, to remove Blacks and Whites from there very own existence of people of any importance with lies that benefits whites and degrades Blacks (Mu'urs), leaving blacks without a clue of who they "truly are." That is a disgrace to treat any group of people in this manner...Well, I guess one have to consider the "Source," the cave dwelling, knuckle crawling benefactors of today, whom are protected from their "True History" and "True Identity" to protect you guys from feeling lower than whence you came, "lower than the "Beast" of the fields. but 'Only" if you can be taught others are some what beneath you. This allows you to feel that others are some what lower than you are, so that you may benefit from lies. Your indoctrinated historical white washed lies of black people and their history only resonates with indoctrinated Socially Engineered Slaves such as yourself... White history is only, "STOLEN," "feel good education"...When whites find the truth, then whites begin to "Self loathe" and or remain totally silent on the issue. Because they begin to realize their whole "self-worth" was base on stolen history.

a reply to: Moor1978

Very jumbled post very difficult to read through, may want to edit a bit, but you seem to think slavery was not a thing and asked to find a sunken slave ship off the eastern seaboard but goes on to say that it was the Moors that bought whites to the America's, if so what did they transport those supposed white slaves in..airplanes?? remember no sunken slave transport have been found, but you know what?? we have ship's manifest from the tip of south America to New York and Boston with inventories of their cargoes including Slaves and so called indentured servant including their point of origins, and First world people were not called Moors or Muurs they had various names for themselves, heck even the Africans called Moors did not make general use of the term Moors but go by tribal/ethnic or religious affiliations the term is from Ancient Greek Μαῦρος ‎(Maûros), μαυρός ‎(maurós, “black, dark”) this was passed on to the Romans who latinized it, in anycase it is not an African or Native American term.

Dedugdahmoundyah Muurs (Moors) were originally a group of priest from Egypt, also known as the Dogon/Olmecs/Mayans. The term Wa#aw is a corruption of Ursahtaw, the father and mothers of the mystics. In Egyptian, Ursahtaw is Urrashet, the winged sun disk, which symbolizes the highest knowledge, the pineal gland being open

Ok I need primary sources on the above or else this is just made stuff up someone pulled outta their ass ,and when I say primary sources I mean a document from the Dogon/Olmecs/Mayans that states they were founder priests from kemet.

originally posted by: Spider879

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by ajmusicmedia

 

This is correct. The fall of the Roman empire, followed by a series of climate disasters and disease pandemics, were what kept Europe "in the dark". Africa continued to thrive, free of the majority of the cold that Europe was faced with.

The fall of Rome had many reasons including corruption,but in the end it was book banning religious zealots thanks to a group of Irish Monks who saved and transcribed many works that along with knowladge gained from the Moors jumped started the European renaissance,I recommend the book How the Irish Saved Civilization.

Were the Irish black, too?

Also, you left out the most important factor of the early Renaissance. Byzantine scholars fleeing the Turkish conquest.

Anyway, I've seen these same topics copy-pasted all over the Internet, and I know where they eventually lead. I get the feeling you are afraid to come out and say what you actually believe.

originally posted by: Talorc

originally posted by: Spider879

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by ajmusicmedia

 

This is correct. The fall of the Roman empire, followed by a series of climate disasters and disease pandemics, were what kept Europe "in the dark". Africa continued to thrive, free of the majority of the cold that Europe was faced with.

The fall of Rome had many reasons including corruption,but in the end it was book banning religious zealots thanks to a group of Irish Monks who saved and transcribed many works that along with knowladge gained from the Moors jumped started the European renaissance,I recommend the book How the Irish Saved Civilization.

Were the Irish black, too?

Also, you left out the most important factor of the early Renaissance. Byzantine scholars fleeing the Turkish conquest.

Anyway, I've seen these same topics copy-pasted all over the Internet, and I know where they eventually lead. I get the feeling you are afraid to come out and say what you actually believe.

Don't have feeling for what I actually believe just ask me , do I think the Irish were Blacks..no! do I think that on occasion Blacks journed or ended up in Northwestern Europe, Yes

A black from Anglo Saxon England.

Fantastic read!!

Star and Flag for you OP

originally posted by: Butterfinger
Fantastic read!!

Star and Flag for you OP

Thanks for reading Butterfinger I made a few more threads on the ancient civilization forum, alot dealing with aspects of ancient Africa and non African civs of various parts of the globe.
But among my favorites are
GASSIRE'S LUTE:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Kouroukan Fouga The Constitution of Ancient Mali[/b
www.abovetopsecret.com...]
Black Caesars:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Armies of Ancient and Medieval Africa
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Images From Medieval Christian Africa:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Or visit my profile In the ancient Civ forum
www.abovetopsecret.com...&fid=32

edit on 2-11-2015 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)

a reply to: Spider879

Hiya Spider,

Just been reading the Atlas Obscura website today and they have a story i think you will find very interesting (link below). Whilst not strictly on this particular topic, it nevertheless fits in as it is about Black Africans in Tudor England.

The Africans That Called Tudor England Home

a reply to: Flavian

Thanks Flavian, will check it out In a couple...

a reply to: Spider879

Good read, and added information especially for that specific era, like how religion gave one social mobility.. Again thanks scholar..

a reply to: Spider879

Always a pleasure mate, information is there to share.

I have to say i had no idea we passed an anti slavery law in the 1500s......even if we "forgot it" when we discovered the joys of multi national corporations in the following century.

I think it is important to acknowledge African contributions in Europe and other cultures. It is important to note that while there is evidence of "Moorish" DNA in current Iberian populations, any typically black African phenology would be swamped by the dominant genetics of the region and "washed out" within a few generations.

While my DNA is by no means typical of your typical white American I would like to offer it up to demonstrate what happens quite quickly. I have no known family history of an African ancestor. I look white. I identify as white. And yet when I tested my DNA, I have African and West Asian. I have no idea where it comes from. I also have Iberian DNA. Quite a lot of it. I have no idea where that came from either. My mitochondrial haplogroup (deep maternal ancestry) is L2a1, which is quintessentially African.

It doesn't translate well to this format, since I copy pasted, but this is a percentage break down of my 22 (not x which would be 23) chromosomes. So on Chromosome 1, I am 62.6 percent European, 16.6 percent NW African, 19.9 percent SW Asian, .9 percent South African, and 1.4 percent San.

This is what a "Moorish" mix within a predominantly European population might look like. Although, my African and West Asian Ancestry is probably within 2-5 generations, so a bit more recent than when the Moors were in Spain, but still largely dominated by my European genetics. So much so, that by looking at me, you would have no clue that I'm, technically, only about 3/4 European.

Europe 62.6 70.5 71.5 72.7 75.1 65.3 61.4 73.5 74.0 67.6 76.5 61.5 71.6 69.2 56.8 85.2 37.9 60.7 47.7 65.1 76.2 78.7
NW_Africa 16.6 6.0 5.8 7.1 2.0 6.5 7.4 4.4 - 1.1 0.1 23.9 - - - - 25.1 11.9 29.5 16.5 - 14.6
SW_Asia 19.9 22.2 22.2 17.5 18.9 26.5 31.2 21.0 26.0 25.0 22.7 9.7 26.8 29.9 37.0 - 29.6 23.2 22.4 18.4 19.4 4.4
E_Africa - - - - - 1.7 - - - - - - - - - 10.9 5.7 - - - - 2.4
S_Africa 0.9 - - - - - - - - 1.9 - - - - - 2.9 - - - - - -
Mbuti - - - - - - - - - - - 5.0 - - - 0.9 - 0.8 - - - -
W_Africa - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1.7 - - - 4.3 -
Biaka - - - - 2.0 - - - - 2.0 - - - - 6.2 - - - - - - -
San - 1.4 0.5 2.7 2.0 - - 1.1 - 2.2 0.8 - 1.6 0.9 - - - 3.4 0.4 - -