The Vanity of Enlightenment

Originally posted by InTheLight
Do I have a persona here?

Originally posted by InTheLight
I am not concerned what other's said I do. I am concerned with what I say I can do, where I can go.

As you wish!

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
I'll answer the crux of your post.

What motivates you to care?

The impression that others don't.

What motivates you to care that others don't appear to you to care the way you think they should?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by InTheLight

 

I am not concerned what other's said I do. I am concerned with what I say I can do, where I can go.

And what is your goal in being concerned? Do you have a direction that concerns you? A direction that you find meaning in?

edit on 15-2-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

At the present moment, it's a feeling of comradery on this thread in sharing trancendental spiritual experiences and commonalities (reality for more than one person?) of the arduous and seemingly unobtainable enlightenment quest.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion

 

If I inspire someone else to care, and they succeed where I don't, then I have succeeded in making a difference.

In much the same way, it would appear those who do not appear to care have inspired a difference in you. Perhaps they have succeeded as well?

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion

What motivates you to care that others don't care the way you think they should?

There's a song I know that phrases it quite well:

If everyone cared and nobody cried,
If everyone loved and nobody lied,
If everyone shared and swallowed their pride
we'd see the day...that nobody died...

Perhaps I am biased in some way, but I don't believe that I am wrong for wanting to see those lyrics fully realized in this world. Even if it's just one day where not a single bullet split the air, not a single tear of horror or misery fell, not a single child went hungry or cold, not a single family was marred by cruelty, and not a single person felt fear.

One day of complete global happiness. One day where everyone could shake hands and smile, and know that they could trust one another with their lives. One day where we fight for one another instead of ourselves. One day where we can look up at the stars and think that even if we are alone in the universe, we're in the best of hands and best of company.

Just one day of true peace. That's what motivates me. The dreams that could be realized, the hopes that could be kindled, the future that could be glimpsed, with one day of true peace throughout the world. Isn't that an idea you can believe in? An idea you want to believe in? Isn't that something all of ATS fights for, every day?

That's how I think others should care. It occurs to me that if such a thing is not the object of our struggles, then perhaps we shouldn't be struggling. And if you believe I am wrong, then show me why.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Perhaps I am biased in some way, but I don't believe that I am wrong...

Finally!

See... that wasn't so hard! Doesn't it feel good to get that off your chest? /hug

----

InTheLight...

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion

 

What motivates you to care that others don't care the way you think they should?

There's a song I know that phrases it quite well:

If everyone cared and nobody cried,
If everyone loved and nobody lied,
If everyone shared and swallowed their pride
we'd see the day...that nobody died...

Perhaps I am biased in some way, but I don't believe that I am wrong for wanting to see those lyrics fully realized in this world. Even if it's just one day where not a single bullet split the air, not a single tear of horror or misery fell, not a single child went hungry or cold, not a single family was marred by cruelty, and not a single person felt fear.

One day of complete global happiness. One day where everyone could shake hands and smile, and know that they could trust one another with their lives. One day where we fight for one another instead of ourselves. One day where we can look up at the stars and think that even if we are alone in the universe, we're in the best of hands and best of company.

Just one day of true peace. That's what motivates me. The dreams that could be realized, the hopes that could be kindled, the future that could be glimpsed, with one day of true peace throughout the world. Isn't that an idea you can believe in? Isn't that something all of ATS fights for, every day?

That's how I think others should care. It occurs to me that if such a thing is not the object of our struggles, then perhaps we shouldn't be struggling. And if you believe I am wrong, then show me why.

edit on 15-2-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Dreams can come true, but humanity has many fractals or stages of awareness and caring with physical factors taking front stage.

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion


Are you going to address the rest of my post, or are you just going to jab at the weakest point you could spot within three seconds of seeing my post? You addressed one line, one line, out of all of the post. Come on, show some effort. Or am I just not worth it?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Why would I address it? I don't disagree with it.

And despite your impression of my responses to you so far... I've been putting in quite a lot of effort into our conversation the entire time. Every single thing has been very specifically and carefully written. Very carefully.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion

 

Are you going to address the rest of my post, or are you just going to jab at the weakest point you could spot within three seconds of seeing my post? You addressed one line, one line, out of all of the post. Come on, show some effort. Or am I just not worth it?

edit on 15-2-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

That point wasn't weak it was enlightened.

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion

Why would I address it? I don't disagree with you.

And believe me, despite your impressions... I've been putting in quite a lot of effort into our conversation the entire time. Every single thing has been very specifically and carefully written. Very carefully.

Did I satisfy your question, then? I'd appreciate a more in depth reaction to my post. After all, I gave very careful and sincere attention to your queries...it would be nice if you'd return the same degree of attention to my answers. I'm putting my heart on my sleeve here.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Yes, I responded to the part that satisfied my question.

When you put in the careful effort to read what people are really writing to you, and have been writing to you for pages and pages now... you'll see that they haven't been as careless or lacking in depth as you currently perceive.

Our hearts (and my non-anonymous real life person!!!) are on our sleeves too, you just aren't recognizing them because they aren't what you think they should be. I meant it and was overwhelmed with genuine emotion when I said I loved you and appreciated everything you've been up to in here. It still stands.

You have exactly what you're asking for right in front of you for page after page in here, you're just too busy arguing with it to recognize it yet. I'm here because I enjoy being here with you and talking through it.

Everything I've offered was a genuine hand trying to reach out in connection (often wearing a coat of humor) despite the repeated assumptions and interpretations from you that the hand is trying to attack or threaten.

/hug again

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion


...you responded to the one line with the word "biased" in it. Because I admitted I am flawed. No big deal there, it was the least important line in my post, but you singled it out with complete disregard for the rest of the post.

I can't perceive what you haven't posted. But I can perceive what you do post. And the impression I got was that you cared more about my being flawed than the actual answer itself. Because the line you quoted was not the answer I gave. It was a disclaimer of sorts. You quoted my disclaimer and ignored the actual answer.

That's the part that's causing me a slight twinge.

reply to post by InTheLight

Dreams can come true, but humanity has many fractals or stages of awareness and caring with physical factors taking front stage.

What's your point?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion

 

...you responded to the one line with the word "biased" in it. Because I admitted I am flawed. No big deal there, it was the least important line in my post, but you singled it out with complete disregard for the rest of the post.

I can't perceive what you haven't posted. But I can perceive what you do post. And the impression I got was that you cared more about my being flawed than the actual answer itself. Because the line you quoted was not the answer I gave. It was a disclaimer of sorts. You quoted my disclaimer and ignored the actual answer.

That's the part that's causing me a slight twinge.

It would cause me more than a slight twinge if I realized I was biased.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
...you responded to the one line with the word "biased" in it. Because I admitted I am flawed. No big deal there, it was the least important line in my post, but you singled it out with complete disregard for the rest of the post.

I can't perceive what you haven't posted. But I can perceive what you do post. And the impression I got was that you cared more about my being flawed than the actual answer itself. Because the line you quoted was not the answer I gave. It was a disclaimer of sorts. You quoted my disclaimer and ignored the actual answer.

That's the part that's causing me a slight twinge.

Like I said in a previous post... the only difference between you and I is you call them "flaws" and are embarrassed about them.

I'm quite aware of the impression you are getting. Have been for page after page. Have continued to do my best to reach out in a variety of ways that might eventually get past your guard so you can see what is really being said.

Eventually you'll stop pointing fingers at everyone else accusing them of what they are missing and stop to contemplate what it is you might have been missing.

Originally posted by ErgoTheConclusion
reply to post by backcase

 

Thank you for joining the party... and welcome to the outer rim of the thread.

reply to post by Serdgiam



How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, Nor stand in the path of sinners, Nor sit in the seat of scoffers. Psalm 1:1

reply to post by backcase

I hear that Jesus fella supposedly hung out and chatted with a rather colorful group of people.

We're all simply playing a little ping pong here.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


While you are not addressing me..

I think that is an idealistic, and beautiful, goal to attempt to attain.

I find it interesting that we are so destructively competitive with one another. It seems most think that the alternative is an ultra-utopian world view where no one competes, ever.

I think there is a middle line though, one which I have alluded to recently. Why dont we approach the way we live in a logical and rational way? Is there a way that we could improve the quality of life for everyone involved, and not just the few who continue to selfishly hoard away all resources?

I truly believe there is. I feel there should be certain things that the government should have control over, and those should be specifically rooted in encouraged a society to grow and flourish towards specific goals. I think these goals should be teaching, science, and healthcare.

Currently, we do not particularly encourage any one of these areas as a foundation for our overall "Cultural Story" (Ishmael reference, for those so inclined).

To attain what you are speaking of, we will need to take steps.

We should focus on the health of our overall society, the education of the overall society, and imbue the Cultural Story itself with a scientific mindset. I also feel that instead of wasting billions upon billions of dollars on useless things, we could actually use that to meet everyones basic needs like food, clothing, and shelter. While many would take advantage of the system (just like it is now), we have far too many that NEED to be concerned about meeting their own basic needs on a daily basis. All of that time could be spent teaching, exploring, growing, and learning. I am aware such a notion repulses much people.

I think our education system should start out with teaching basics like math, writing, etc. but make the scientific method a mainstay and foundation for how we approach things. Again, the importance is in the process, so we wouldnt be so focused on teaching the findings of the scientific method, but actually teaching how to practice the method itself. We would essentially teach this in elementary school for several years. Telling our children to just go and explore the world, learn about it! Then, come back to the classroom and share the findings with the other students who have been doing the same thing. In later years, we would begin teaching "what we currently know to be true." As I have said before, I think we should teach our children how to question, THEN teach them what to question. Right now, we dont even give a "standard" questioning method until much later in education. Leading me to think of it more as indocrination..

Our healthcare system is currently more concerned with profit than it is health. However, many people need to focus on their health care and paying for it. This is all time, energy, and resources that could be used towards the growth of the individuals and as a consequence, the society that they reside within. It is in the peoples best interest to have everyone healthy, in many different ways. Making it into a system that encourages profit at the expense of peoples lives (literally) is outright destructive to a society. It leads to a lower quality of life for every one involved, including the ones who perceive they are gaining so much at the expense of others.

The focus on science would just come naturally, as our education system would set a foundation that encourages children to explore things scientifically from day one. In doing this, it will also make it much more clear that there are innate limitations on the process. While we can attempt to explain everything, the process is ongoing. There is never a single moment that "all" is achieved, even in a unified theory. There is always more room to grow, to improve, and to better ourselves.

I am running out of room here, but you wanted a sincere response AI and I promise you I am sincere in my thinking (even if it may be outright incorrect).

Edit: There is one more aspect, that I hesitate to even bring up. But you threw it all out there in your own way, and I will respect your choice in my own actions (you are successful, in other words). That is standardized pay for everyone in a society that is based in how they want the society to grow. It would have modifiers that specifically address certain aspects. So, base pay would be X, with a +% modifiers for things like hours spent productively teaching and how much an individual enables others to contribute (meaning, a higher modifier for true leaders). It is essentially an expanded minimum wage.

Goodnight friends. The girlfriend is wanting to do the stare into each other's eyes thing so... priorities.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by AllIsOne

 

Why don't you participate in this discussion? If you know enough to say that others in this thread lack understanding, then surely you have insights to offer. I hope you are not here to "hit and run". It rather undermines your credibility in the subject, especially if your only comment is to kiss up and criticize.

You obviously have the attention span of a 12-year-old Nintendo addict. Actually, how old are you if I may ask? Go back and read all my posts in this thread. And I'm happy to translate the French word that I dedicated to you ...

I've given you plenty of definitions for enlightenment. It's easy to spot when you know what to look for. Also: Enlightenment is when you see all consequences of your actions.

Couches in America are indeed a great place for enlightenment, apparently couches in Dharamshala not so much

There is a Taoist story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit. "Such bad luck," they said sympathetically.
"Maybe," the farmer replied. The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. "How wonderful," the neighbors exclaimed.
"Maybe," replied the old man. The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune. "Maybe," answered the farmer. The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out. "Maybe," said the farmer.