The Vanity of Enlightenment

Ergo and Blue,

Thank you for your words of wisdom.

I have no idea how you guys muster the patience to keep responding to some individuals who clearly don't want to understand. Patience must be in direct correlation with the big E.

Obviously, I will never attain it ...

reply to post by BlueMule


The Dalai Lama Tenzin Gyatso has professed to not be enlightened. He has studied Buddhism, one of the most established paths of achieving enlightenment, for many years...probably for longer than you have been alive. And he is not enlightened, by his own admission.

Do you know more than the Dalai Lama? I myself do not dare to suggest such a thing. It speaks of vanity beyond all reason to declare myself more advanced than His Holiness. More to the point, it speaks of dishonesty with myself. I understand that. I wouldn't even want to surpass the Dalai Lama in such practices.

But do you claim to have done so?

I quite enjoyed my chest puffery. I think some of it came out quite nicely! I'm quite impressed by every else's as well. The most impressive of course are always the ones trying to suck their puffed out chests in!

I had fun puffering around in here... so why be led by someone to feel bad about feeling good or be negative about the variety of ways chests look puffed out? Vanity is just a word. Like *$&% and %#*% and @(#$... we give them whatever power they have over us.

Nothing to be ashamed of about having a puffed out chest, flat chest, or sunken chest. They are all chests.

Some choose to let someone else's word choices control them... and then work very hard trying to demonstrate otherwise... which is awesome.

These conversations are fun and pleasant to me. Even when tossing the ball around with others not seeming to have as much fun or as many giggles ... but that's their strategy thus the ball remains in play.

Thanks for the show everyone, and the wide open playing field LesMisanthrope. We're all just rolling our heads around. It's way more fun when you actually enjoy the rolling.
Now that's some enlightenment right there ↑

reply to post by AllIsOne


Why don't you participate in this discussion? If you know enough to say that others in this thread lack understanding, then surely you have insights to offer. I hope you are not here to "hit and run". It rather undermines your credibility in the subject, especially if your only comment is to kiss up and criticize.

Originally posted by InTheLight


But it is, within the exchange of banter lies many truths.

But who's truths?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

Learning to accept that our opinions aren't worth anything. They are worth as much as they mean, and chances are, they won't mean anything to the average person on the street or in the store. So they are essentially worthless outside of your own mind.

If you wouldnt mind clarifying, do you feel that opinions arent worth anything, or that they are worth as much as they mean? It may seem clear to you, but I have some confusion on it

I also think that they have potential worth. Meaning, if someone else puts worth on someone elses thoughts, then it also has worth and value outside of the mind that perceived and created it. Though, it inherently is each individuals "take" on the scene.

Stop acting as though your ideas and opinions hold weight with anyone but yourself, and that will be one more step towards pruning your vanity. This holds with myself as well, but I have taken steps throughout this entire thread to make it clear that my opinions are my own and that they may or may not hold true for anyone else. I have acknowledged it repeatedly.

I don't see anyone else doing the same.

You dont? I honestly thought I was making it clear that I only speak for myself. Especially in posts like this. And intentionally putting "I think" and "I feel" as qualifiers before much of what I said. I also constantly ask what anothers perspective is on "X" and attempt to make as few assumptions as possible (though not always successfully). I was hoping that would be enough to make it clear that I only speak from my own perspective, but it apparently wasnt enough. How could I make it clearer? (genuine question since its obvious it still didnt get through)

I am at least trying. What about the rest of you?

A quote I really like is "Dont take it too seriously, none of us are getting out alive anyway" Either way, what would you like to see from us? I have been light hearted, but I am trying, or rather "doing." I have enjoyed the entire thread through all of its ups and downs.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by BlueMule

 

The Dalai Lama Tenzin Gyatso has professed to not be enlightened. He has studied Buddhism, one of the most established paths of achieving enlightenment, for many years...probably for longer than you have been alive. And he is not enlightened, by his own admission.

Do you know more than the Dalai Lama? I myself do not dare to suggest such a thing. It speaks of vanity beyond all reason to declare myself more advanced than His Holiness. More to the point, it speaks of dishonesty with myself. I understand that. I wouldn't even want to surpass the Dalai Lama in such practices.

But do you claim to have done so?

Yes, I know more than the Dalai Lama.

I, an American couch-potato, am enlightened where the Dalai Lama is not.

But I'm sure he is much more advanced at Tibetan practices than me. After all, I'm not a Tibetan Buddhist.

It's a good thing enlightenment doesn't depend on culture-specific practices and beliefs, eh?

Originally posted by 1nf1del

Originally posted by InTheLight


But it is, within the exchange of banter lies many truths.

But who's truths?

Maybe yours if you open your mind and spirit to others' experiences.

reply to post by BlueMule

Yes, I know more than the Dalai Lama.

I, an American couch-potato, am enlightened where the Dalai Lama is not.

Does anyone not see this as a statement of vanity?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I see it as admitting frank truth, without care about how you or anyone else perceives it. I'm not going to play a false modesty game so that you will think 'oh gee this guy is just so humble, maybe he's enlightened after all' like you and so many others are playing.

Enlightenment can strike like a thunderbolt. Anyone, anywhere, anytime. That's what Divine Grace means. It's unconditional. If it was conditional on practice or virtue, it wouldn't be Grace.

Others work their ass off and get nowhere. Like the OP.

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by BlueMule

 

The Dalai Lama Tenzin Gyatso has professed to not be enlightened. He has studied Buddhism, one of the most established paths of achieving enlightenment, for many years...probably for longer than you have been alive. And he is not enlightened, by his own admission.

Do you know more than the Dalai Lama? I myself do not dare to suggest such a thing. It speaks of vanity beyond all reason to declare myself more advanced than His Holiness. More to the point, it speaks of dishonesty with myself. I understand that. I wouldn't even want to surpass the Dalai Lama in such practices.

But do you claim to have done so?

Yes, I know more than the Dalai Lama.

I, an American couch-potato, am enlightened where the Dalai Lama is not.

But I'm sure he is much more advanced at Tibetan practices than me. After all, I'm not a Tibetan Buddhist.

It's a good thing enlightenment doesn't depend on culture-specific practices and beliefs, eh?

edit on 15-2-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

Perhaps the Dalai Lama is the prime example in this scenario and some of us are the exceptions. My chest is puffy right now due to deep breathing exercises.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by BlueMule

 

Yes, I know more than the Dalai Lama.

I, an American couch-potato, am enlightened where the Dalai Lama is not.

Does anyone not see this as a statement of vanity?

edit on 15-2-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Not at all, one can meditate quite well on a couch.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

Yes, I know more than the Dalai Lama.
I, an American couch-potato, am enlightened where the Dalai Lama is not.

Does anyone not see this as a statement of vanity?

What motivates you to care?

I'm vain. You're vain. They are vain. The only difference is you're just embarrassed about it.

reply to post by BlueMule

I see it as admitting frank truth, without care about how you or anyone else perceives it. I'm not going to play a false modesty game so that you will think 'oh gee this guy is just so humble, maybe he's enlightened after all' like you and so many others are playing.

Enlightenment can strike like a thunderbolt. Anyone, anywhere, anytime. That's what Divine Grace means. It's unconditional. If it was conditional on practice or virtue, it wouldn't be Grace.

Others work their ass off and get nowhere. Like the OP.

I'm not playing. You are. You are playing at being the teacher, but you're just a student. And when you have only your own standards to judge yourself by, it is little wonder that you show signs of ingenuity. I give you friendly advice, you spit it back at me as though I have insulted you.

- one needs the confirmation of others to justify his way of life and spiritual path. If others agree he is enlightened, he feels better about the choices he has made.

I questioned your claims of enlightenment, and you scoffed at my intellectual capacity as though my skepticism were a sign of idiocy.

- one seeks power or a feeling of self-gratification from being known as enlightened.

In the face of your confidence, I have expressed doubt and a reluctance to simply take you at your word. I kindly refused the kool aid, so to speak. Your reaction was defiance and scorn.

- one desires followers.

Thus far, you have proven every single point the OP desired to make. You are not enlightened. I am not enlightened. No one here is enlightened. It's okay to not be enlightened. There is wisdom is acknowledging the fool. But it is not good to be a fool and pretend to be wise.

“The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool." - William Shakespeare

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion

What motivates you to care?

I'm vain. You're vain. They are vain. The only difference is you're just embarrassed about it.

Not at all. Vanity is a part of being human. But I do express concern when vanity bolsters self-confidence to the point of arrogance. And declaring oneself to be more advanced than the Dalai Lama, one of the greatest students of enlightenment in the world, is more than a little arrogant.

Originally posted by ErgoTheConclusion

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

Yes, I know more than the Dalai Lama.
I, an American couch-potato, am enlightened where the Dalai Lama is not.

Does anyone not see this as a statement of vanity?

What motivates you to care?

I'm vain. You're vain. They are vain. The only difference is you're just embarrassed about it.

See now, my perception is s/he is not trying to teach, but express something. Again, it's all individual choice in how to perceive others' experiences...internalization, always referring back to the ego-self, shed the ego-self.

Originally posted by BlueMule
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

I see it as admitting frank truth, without care about how you or anyone else perceives it. I'm not going to play a false modesty game so that you will think 'oh gee this guy is just so humble, maybe he's enlightened after all' like you and so many others are playing.

What makes you think others are playing a false modesty game? It sounds like it would be for you, and I do like that honesty! Though, I do find it strange to claim to know more than anyone. I find it difficult to make such assumptions as appearances can be deceiving.

Is there actual evidence that lead you either of these conclusions (knowing more than someone, and the false modesty game), or is it solely bound by your own perspective?

reply to post by Serdgiam


His username is not coincidence, that much is certain. There is only one word for the perspective he has displayed here: conceit. He cares not what others thinks, his personal opinion is the only one that holds value. It's a shame that his pride and vanity does not allow him to see himself as others do. A biased assessment is usually an inaccurate one. This is why I am not sparing when I view myself. To be sparing is to allow demons to go unaddressed, and this undermines my goals in the exercise. He clearly does not care about such matters in regard to himself.

It actually makes me wonder what his goals are...

Originally posted by BlueMule

Enlightenment can strike like a thunderbolt. Anyone, anywhere, anytime. That's what Divine Grace means. It's unconditional. If it was conditional on practice or virtue, it wouldn't be Grace.

Others work their ass off and get nowhere. Like the OP.

It just happens.
Anger and resentment happen where it doesn't.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

His username is not coincidence, that much is certain. There is only one word for the perspective he has displayed here: conceit. He cares not what others thinks, his personal opinion is the only one that holds value. It's a shame that his pride and vanity does not allow him to see himself as others do. A biased assessment is usually an inaccurate one. This is why I am not sparing when I view myself. To be sparing is to allow demons to go unaddressed, and this undermines my goals in the exercise. He clearly does not care about such matters in regard to himself.

It actually makes me wonder what his goals are...

edit on 15-2-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I don't see him underming you, you see him undermining you...why?