What the hell happened to music???

reply to post by Konoyaro

I mean classical music is not the most favored style of music and hasn't been for a long time, it seems strange that those schools receive the most funding for teaching mostly archaic style that doesn't bring that much money and is not of interest to the general public.

It never has been the favored style of music. The gentry had their music and the common people another kind. It has always been that way. Classical music was saved because it was written down. Much of the popular common music was not written down as the performers generally didn't know how to do it but it was more widely performed.

What would you have them teach? The reason classical music is taught is because it is universal. You are teaching techniques not simply a style. Most instruments used in classical music such as the bassoon or the oboe are not used in the popular music. If you didn't use classical then what do you teach these people? You learn theory and technique in conservertory, it's not a place you go to learn style. That's the point. If you have a particular style you like you can use the techniques you learned in your chosen style. Technique is universal. Good singing technique will serve you in any style, as will good technique in any other instrument. That's what college-level is about, learning technique. If you want to learn composition there are plenty of schools that teach it and that will serve your creative needs. .

You seem to forget many people don't go to college to learn how to be a creative genius, they go to get a degree in music education. That tends to be the most sought after musical degree. Why should schools cater to something most people don't want? Many people go to college to hone their skills because they want to join a symphony orchestra or sing opera. The technique they learn in their study will serve them in any other style of music if they choose to use it. If you can bang Ravel out on the piano i doubt pop music will be much of a challenge for you.

Perhaps it's because of where he is that he holds his opinion. I have never encountered a bias against popular music in college. There is actually a vocal group that sings it at the school I attend and there are also jazz courses as well. There is actually a popular music based course in Nashville as well and that's just one. There are many in the U.S., there are colleges that even teach electronic music as well. It's all there if you want to find it, as for state-sponsored, well, considering the amount of cutting most states are doing to music programs here I wouldn't even proclaim they have much state-support.

Frankly, if you aren't going to teach or go into classical music then you have no need of a college-level musical education. Honing your instrumental skills on your own will suffice. You can teach yourself basic theory quite easily and that's all you need for most popular music. You would be better off getting a degree in the sciences or business so you can at least have a fall-back position.

reply to post by enament


What does that have to do with anything . Thats junk too ! I feel sorry for kids now days .

reply to post by Thecakeisalie


Corporatizing of music. It's like "news entertainment" or any other product. A major corporation has a formula and the only thing that changes is the color of the product.

I'm 35, and there's nothing I hate more then being out of the loop when it comes to music. I got into the electronic music scene in the late 90's and have been in love ever since. When I first heard dub step I didn't like it but then it grew on me, and I must admit skrillex got me and for a bit I was rockin his music in my iPod...Nero too. My two fave dub step songs are Rusko-hold on, and chromeo-night by night. Very sexy tracks IMO. I'm constantly downloading new music and various radio shows to hear all the new stuff coming out. My fave type of edm is def trance, followed by drum n bass...then everything else in between.

Edm is not easy to produce! You have to have skills and know what your doing. Alot of the big edm producers came from a musical background of playing piano...etc.

I guess the only thing I'm old fashioned about is djing. What ever happened to spinning vinyl and actually knowing how to match beats? Now they just press buttons. Most kids today don't even know how to match a beat...they press a button to match them up....where is the fun in that? I refuse to change in that aspect. I'll spin my actual vinyl and manually match my beats! ....end of my little rant

As for other forms of music, I love it all.grew up on punk, hardcore, metal, death metal, industrial...etc. Someone on this thread mentioned acid bath....hell yeah! Gotta love biggie and snoop too. I even like to listen to the radio every now and then....oh yeah...I like kesha too. my main squeeze will always be electronic music, but I'm open minded and LOVE and can appreciate many different types of music.

reply to post by Konoyaro


To call yourself a musician, should not the requisite be that you actually PLAY a musical instrument? Electronic sounds arent music. DuMbstep is also very active in the trance songs of the raver mentallity. Bach was a composer of music, real ( with musical instruments) not electronic sounds that sound repetative and boring.

www.youtube.com...

i go to fleetwood mac and toto this year.
but dance music is great, also went to qlimax and hardbass.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Thecakeisalie
This is my first rant, so I'm going to make it a good one.

Yes, Skrillex and Chris Brown and pretty much all American pop music is garbage.

Same with movies and pretty much any artistic endeavor, the stuff being fed to mainstream culture is absolute trash.

BUT there is in fact good stuff out there, good music/movies/art, you just have to love the medium enough to be willing to dig.

Well, let's see. back in the 50's and early 60's most of the entertainers and good groups were black. But then along came the 'revolution' and 'motown'. The 'black fist', afro flag and fake afro holidays like 'Quanza'
Being at the top of the game was not enough, you had to be black, anti-establishment and support the drug culture. That morphed into the 'gangsta' lifestyle and more drugs. Which has torn the black community apart.
and now, we have an administration that supports that type of culture and life style. What else can we say...it's what you wanted.

Earlier in the thread, I made mention of technology and it's impact on music. I see comments stating that anything can be a musical instrument. I agree with that, however, all things are not equal. A piano, for instance, can take a lifetime to master. Also, it is played directly by the musician. Much of todays music is programmed, and even things that are played (a turntable for instance) (I do not believe) are as difficult to master as a piano. Why is that important? It is a natural way to weed out the people who are just screwing around or just trying to get some fame or fortune. To master a piano, one has to truly dedicate themselves to it and love it. The first time I came accross a drum machine, it took me all of 30 seconds to learn how to program it. If someone wants to play a turntable, I can accept that, but programmed music is not played, and that is a huge difference.

Here is an example of how technology really began hurting music back in the 80s. Herbie Hancock is an extremely talented and accomplished pianist. Here is a sampling of his playing.


Now, here he is in 1984 spending most of the performance dancing around like a fool and clapping his hands. When he does play, it is some fairly basic stuff and he only does it for brief moments. This is awful and he should be embarrassed of this portion of his career.


I know I will be bashed for some of these statements, but the truth is, electronic music does not require the same level of knowledge and creativity. I know many people who create loops from samples and toy around with synths. They do not have any musical knowledge and do not consider themselves musicians. These things are toys to them. Also, playing an instrument does not automatically qualify a person as a good musician or songwriter either. There are plenty of crap bands out there that "play" their music

As for genres, I don't think in terms of genres anymore. What is that really? A marketing tool, right? A way to pigeonhole an artist into one type of music. This is also a hinderance. I can find things from all genres that I both like and dislike.

this is a great thread. I've listened to so many new bands I've never heard of from all these videos posted. I liked them all.

Music is such a hard substance to pin down on any level that you try. It's an elusive characteristic of why human beings are such fascinating and strange things because music affects our behavior. There's good reason why people are so passionate about what music they like, it has that magic.

Originally posted by enament
reply to post by tabov

 

The device the kid is using what are they called? I have been looking for one.

The device Madeon is using on that video is a Novation Launchpad, which is a popular model of midi pad controllers

These are to be used in junction with DAWs such as Ableton Live or Performance Mode inside FL Studio, as shown on this video bellow:

To the people who think the above are not instruments, I am a music producer/composer myself, I play classic Spanish guitar and piano, as well as all sorts of percussion instruments, and BELIEVE ME when I say, it's way easier for me to play songs, chords, perform and sing than to properly setup and execute stuff such as the above, that sound reasonably well..

Everyone can do it? SURE, but people who do it right.. it just isn't that easy, try for yourselves. really.

It's just another form of talent you don't appreciate enough..

reply to post by Thecakeisalie


You know that, Piccaso could have sh* in the corner, and everyone would applaude... For his masterpieace... Because, only some are well paid for their art, and teams are stealing for them... From others... Funny joke, isn't it?

28 is a difficult age for liking music.
Too old to like the new stuff and too young to able able to appreciate every type of music as you're still within the constraints of "coolness" (for want of a better word").

A my age (late 40's) I will happily listen to anything regardless of who or what it is.
I've been actively listening (rather than just hearing) to music since I was around 5 so I've heard a lot of different music come and go.
I don't really like pigeon-holing stuff stuff I like as it's quite diverse, from experimental and avant garde electronica to movie scores.
(Ok, I'm not a big fan of country. There, I've said it and progressive jazz can be a bit emperor's new clothes but anything else is fair game.)

Like all music, dubstep is an evolution of earlier genres and in some respects has taken off.
Like all music, some of it's quite good, some not so good.
Like all music though, you don't HAVE to like it but appreciate that others do.

Originally posted by tabov

Originally posted by enament
reply to post by tabov

 

The device the kid is using what are they called? I have been looking for one.

The device Madeon is using on that video is a Novation Launchpad, which is a popular model of midi pad controllers

These are to be used in junction with DAWs such as Ableton Live or Performance Mode inside FL Studio, as shown on this video bellow:

To the people who think the above are not instruments, I am a music producer/composer myself, I play classic Spanish guitar and piano, as well as all sorts of percussion instruments, and BELIEVE ME when I say, it's way easier for me to play songs, chords, perform and sing than to properly setup and execute stuff such as the above, that sound reasonably well..

Everyone can do it? SURE, but people who do it right.. it just isn't that easy, try for yourselves. really.

It's just another form of talent you don't appreciate enough..

Nice looking piece of kit.
A bit more expansive than my Kaosillator.
But like any decent instrument takes a second to use and a lifetime to master.

I like my EDM, but when Dubstep starts affecting the animals, there is no hope for us all

Almost on topic:

How much is each generation really responsible for creating their own sound? Not as much as they claim, I think. The creators of a "sound" and the designers of each generation are comprised of several influences, the musicians being only one of them, and likely not the most influential of the group. Producers, engineers, and some guys in suits that work for major labels are one set of factors. Engineers mix to a specific sound, sometimes with direction from the producer. The producer and label can also dictate what type of songs get on an album, not to mention what type of acts get signed. Musically speaking, each generation has been an evolution of the sound just before it (in most cases). Also, the creators of the technology used in sound processing, recording, mixing, microphones, etc... all influence the "sound" of a generation. Is it coincidence that in the late, experimental 60s that many new processors and effects were available for the first time? How might the 60s have sounded wihtout the fuzz, the wah, the phasers, etc...? I don't think it was a coincidence as much as people experimenting with new stuff. The same thing with the 80s and the newfangled digital equipment.The equipment played a large role in defining the "sound".

To start to categorize skrillex as dubstep would be wrong !
his music only barely fits into this genre

better dubstep artists would be from the DMZ labeland artists like , skream , and benga Rusko and caspa
just to scratch the surface

To say that it requires no talent to produce electronic music , then you'd be wrong
learning to use electronic software or instruments is just as hard a learning curve as it is learning to play the guitar I have been playing guitar since I was 12 im now 30 , I also started to make electronic music at age 15 and it took me just as long to learn to do both

You still need to be able to understand musical notes and composition of songs in order to make music using electronic instruments and software .

Levon vincent who makes techno music uses the golden ratio to produce his songs , Aphex twin has been likened to modern 21st century composer by classical musicians who researched his music .

If electronic music is not to your taste thats fine , but to say that it is not music is a joke and your really just putting your blinkers on , you dont get to see the full picture of music if you just think that acoustic / analogue instruments are the be all and end all of music !

reply to post by Thecakeisalie


I used to, like you, place an undue amount of importance on "effort". It is not effort that makes great music, it's inspiration. Ideally, there would be a musical interface that would enable us to transform our inspirations directly into sound, but for now music is restricted to those who have talent with their hands. Uninspired trash will always be uninspired trash, no matter who covers it and no matter how much effort they put into it. I used to roll my eyes at every new music trend (such as when R.E.M. hit it big in the 80s), but I'm finding it much more enjoyable to simply find stuff that I feel is inspired. The Grateful Dead are very important to me, but when I found out (at age 19) that they were always at the bleeding edge of electronic music (Jerry was a MIDI pioneer, for example), I had to rethink my musical Luddite ways!

I'm in my 40s and I LIKE Skrillex. But that might be because I was introduced to him via his videos for "Bangarang" (which every ATSer should see, just for the symbolism), and "First of the Year", both of which are brilliant. Also, be realistic with your expectations of what each artist can maintain. Not every band is a Pink Floyd or Smashing Pumpkins. Not every band can put out consistently brilliant music. But there are gems, and lots of them!

Look around, and you'll find so much good music you will have a hard time keeping up with it. Listening to what's played on the radio does not count as "looking around". Some good stuff makes it onto the air, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

reply to post by Thecakeisalie


Good music and real musicians still live. We're still out there.

Check out my band Word of Mouth. We're definitely not dubstep.

And though I am not a fan of Skrillex, there is definitely some good dubstep/live electronica bands out there. Many of these people honestly are very talented...it just isn't with a traditional instrument. It's actually really complicated to create some of the effects that dubstep guys do, especially the 'wobble' effect that it is so known for.

I don't listen to much dub or live-electronica UNLESS i am at a music festival. Trust me, hearing those rhythmic beats and percussive jams while you're dancing in the middle of a field on a starry night is very primal. Very post-human, if you will.

reply to post by Tylerknight


I agree with everything you said. I couldn't picture Hole with any other singer nor would I want to. Same with Neil Young. Now Dylan.....Hmmmmm, that's another story.