Jesus(pbuh) dint knew the 'HOUR'!(Judgement day)

while reading Mark, i came across this:
Mark 13

32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son,
but the Father.

The Hour is known only by God.

"They ask thee about the (final) Hour - when will be its appointed time? Say: 'The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): none but He can reveal as to when it will occur. Heavy were its burden through the heavens and the earth. Only, all of a sudden will it come to you.' They ask thee as if thou were eager in search thereof: say: 'The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone), but most men know not.' " [Al-Qur'an 7:187]

i would like to clear that the anyone wanting to given the 'full man full god' justification should better refrain. Thanks.
I just want to say that this makes Jesus pbuh a Prophet.
What you all say?

darn biblical conflicts.

anyone would think some humans wrote the entire thing to suit an agenda at the time...

Originally posted by winofiend
darn biblical conflicts.

anyone would think some humans wrote the entire thing to suit an agenda at the time...

hey winofiend! Nice of you to respond, i atleast have one consistent reader of my posts

reply to post by logical7


On a personal note, I would question the "reading" aspect of that sentiment. More often than not, I find myself "puzzling" your posts. Your question here was concerning the validity of Jesus' title of Prophet, correct?

Why would you suddenly question that now? I don't see how the quoted selections cast any doubt (Biblical rationality aside) on his rank in the world of religion. I guess I'm asking you to be more specific with your questions and the cognitive process that led to those questions.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Your question here was concerning the validity of Jesus' title of Prophet, correct?

NO. I am not questioning the validity of him being a Prophet.
I am just affirming the he is a Prophet but NOT god.

reply to post by logical7


Really? So what's the point you are making? For thousands of years people have believed what they want to believe. You have your opinion, which is fine and dandy, no arguement from me.

My opinion since you asked: Jesus was the Son Of God. He was God's prophet, speaking to man of his love and the Salvation of All of Us. We just need to follow the path of Love, Peace, Compassion and be the best person we can be.......after all we aren't perfect and I don't think God expects us to be. After all, even Jesus asked "My Lord remove this burden from thee......"

Peace!! ID

Originally posted by logical7
What you all say?

Like it or not - the answer is in the fact that Jesus is fully God and also fully man.

90. Did the incarnate Son of God have a soul with human knowledge? 470-474 482

The Son of God assumed a body animated by a rational human soul. With his human intellect Jesus learned many things by way of experience; but also as man the Son of God had an intimate and immediate knowledge of God his Father. He likewise understood people’s secret thoughts and he knew fully the eternal plans which he had come to reveal.

What the Early Church Fathers Said About This

]Excerpts 90, & 471-474; Catechism of the Catholic Church , on this subject

471 Apollinarius of Laodicaea asserted that in Christ the divine Word had replaced the soul or spirit. Against this error the Church confessed that the eternal Son also assumed a rational, human soul.

472 This human soul that the Son of God assumed is endowed with a true human knowledge. As such, this knowledge could not in itself be unlimited: it was exercised in the historical conditions of his existence in space and time. This is why the Son of God could, when he became man, "increase in wisdom and in stature, and in favour with God and man", and would even have to inquire for himself about what one in the human condition can learn only from experience. This corresponded to the reality of his voluntary emptying of himself, taking "the form of a slave".

473 But at the same time, this truly human knowledge of God's Son expressed the divine life of his person. "The human nature of God's Son, not by itself but by its union with the Word, knew and showed forth in itself everything that pertains to God." Such is first of all the case with the intimate and immediate knowledge that the Son of God made man has of his Father. The Son in his human knowledge also showed the divine penetration he had into the secret thoughts of human hearts.

474 By its union to the divine wisdom in the person of the Word incarnate, Christ enjoyed in his human knowledge the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal. What he admitted to not knowing in this area, he elsewhere declared himself not sent to reveal.

Jesus Beatific Vision, infused knowledge, acquired knowledge - Survey of the Knowledge of Jesus Christ

II. EXTENT OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF JESUS CHRIST.—It has already been stated that the knowledge in Christ's Divine nature is co-extensive with God's Omniscience. As to the experimental knowledge acquired by Christ, it must have been at least equal to the knowledge of the most gifted of men; it appears to us wholly unworthy of the dignity of Christ that His powers of observation and natural insight should have been less than those of other naturally perfect men. But the main difficulty arises from the question as to the extent of Christ's knowledge flowing from His beatific vision, and of His infused amount of knowledge. (I) The Council of Basle (Sess. XXII) condemned the proposition of a certain Augustinus de Roma: "Anima Christi videt Deum tam Clare. et intense quam Clare et intense Deus videt seipsum" (The soul of Christ sees God as clearly and intimately as God perceives Himself). It is quite clear that, however perfect the human soul of Christ is, it always remains finite and limited; hence its knowledge cannot be unlimited and infinite. (2) Though the knowledge in the human soul of Christ was not infinite, it was most perfect and embraced the widest range, extending to the Divine ideas already realized, or still to be realized. Nescience of any of these matters would amount to positive ignorance in Christ, as the ignorance of law in a judge. For Christ is not merely our infallible teacher, but also the universal mediator, the supreme judge, the sovereign king of all creation. (3) Two important texts are urged against this perfection of Christ's knowledge: Luke, ii, 52 demands an advancement in knowledge in the case of Christ; this text has already been considered in the last paragraph. The other text is Mark, xiii, 32: "Of that day or hour no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father." After all that has been written on this question in recent years, we see no need to add anything to the traditional explanations: the Son has no knowledge of the judgment day which He may communicate; or, the Son has no knowledge of this event, which springs from His human nature as such; or again, the Son has no knowledge of the day and the hour, that has not been communicated to Him by the Father.

Originally posted by logical7
i would like to clear that the anyone wanting to given the 'full man full god' justification should better refrain.

No.

I just want to say that this makes Jesus pbuh a Prophet.

.. and that's why no one will 'refrain' from stating that Jesus is fully god and fully human. You want to say that he's 'just a prophet' but then tell others that they can't say he's 'fully god and fully man'????

I don't think so.

Originally posted by logical7
while reading Mark, i came across this:
Mark 13

32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son,
but the Father.

The Hour is known only by God.

"They ask thee about the (final) Hour - when will be its appointed time? Say: 'The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): none but He can reveal as to when it will occur. Heavy were its burden through the heavens and the earth. Only, all of a sudden will it come to you.' They ask thee as if thou were eager in search thereof: say: 'The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone), but most men know not.' " [Al-Qur'an 7:187]

i would like to clear that the anyone wanting to given the 'full man full god' justification should better refrain. Thanks.
I just want to say that this makes Jesus pbuh a Prophet.
What you all say?

If you are speaking of 'time' time? It is a 3rd dimensional linear construct than Humans invented. If God was has and always been walking this planet, two legged or four--It would understand the concept of 'time'. I thought the Sheriff and its posse lived in the higher dimensions, as in non physical-so would have no idea of a wake up! 6:00am alarm clock noise to get ready to go to work (personally if I was God I'd hit the snooze button).

reply to post by logical7


Not exactly, that makes Him not the Father.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


You realize the current understanding is 11 dimensions not 3? And time, or "spacetime", as Physicists call it is NON-LINEAR and the 4th dimension.

Thank Einstein for that one.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

You realize the current understanding is 11 dimensions not 3? And time, or "spacetime", as Physicists call it is NON-LINEAR and the 4th dimension.

Thank Einstein for that one.

No thanks Stephen Hawking has a/the better idea of 13. The physical world as in Matter, Mass Based exists in the 1st-3rd dimensions. The fourth you call space time? I have yet to wake up in it and experience taking the dog out for a walk looking for not fire hydrants, but quarks and superstrings. The rest 4-13 of them are not DENSE.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


12 and 13 are theoretical at this point, that's why I said 11. And I didn't invent the term spacetime, it's been called that since before I was ever conceived.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

12 and 13 are theoretical at this point, that's why I said 11.

And I didn't invent the term spacetime, it's been called that since before I was ever conceived.

edit on 8-2-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Here is an idea for you. Numbers always in context, there are 12 universes existing right now attached to each other like soap bubbles; mirroring the 'dimension concepts' of this universe. The 13th wildcard is the One that created all (not a universe) but equal to all as these were its progeny. Eggs hatched.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Now you're just talking fantasy. One of the greatest discoveries of the 20th century was that our universe is finite, on both the macro and microcosm.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Now you're just talking fantasy. One of the greatest discoveries of the 20th century was that our universe is finite, on both the macro and microcosm.

Apparenty God (believe me IT knows) was never consulted? Who wrote the findings and who is talking to whom, Ive yet to see it front page Vanity Fair Magazine. Our universe is NOT finite. It has 11 other siblings.
Last time I looked Clark Griswald had the greated discovery. A laquer that coats cereal varities (Cap'n Crunch) to keep them from absorbing milk in the breakfast bowl; reason, to keep them crunchy between the teeth.

I neglected Flubber an honerable mention,.

reply to post by logical7

Originally posted by Logical7
while reading Mark, i came across this:
Mark 13
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son,
but the Father.

The Hour is known only by God.
"They ask thee about the (final) Hour - when will be its appointed time? Say: 'The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): none but He can reveal as to when it will occur. Heavy were its burden through the heavens and the earth. Only, all of a sudden will it come to you.' They ask thee as if thou were eager in search thereof: say: 'The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone), but most men know not.' " [Al-Qur'an 7:187]

i would like to clear that the anyone wanting to given the 'full man full god' justification should better refrain. Thanks.
I just want to say that this makes Jesus pbuh a Prophet.
What you all say?

That Quran verse is not wrong, and neither are the other scriptures!

Jesus is only a prophet, in the sense that he teaches people about God. But He is much more than that.

Jesus had the spirit of the living Father speaking through him, in real time, which does not apply to any other prophet, before him, nor after him. Which is why IMO He is classified as the Messiah, in both the Quran, Hebrew and Christian Scriptures.

Jesus was the first created being, by the Father. All things were then created, through the Father and The Son.

God spoke through Jesus, but Jesus, The Son of God, also spoke for himself. The Son did not know the final hour, because the Father is greater than the Son. But none are greater than The Son, except the Father.


- JC

Originally posted by logical7
i would like to clear that the anyone wanting to given the 'full man full god' justification should better refrain.

That request is not legitimate.
If you are deliberately putting forward a point as a "problem", you are not entitled to rule out answers to the problem just because you don't like them.
The explanation for your puzzle is that Christ was fully God and fully man.

I must request you not to give the "prophet" explanation, if you're not prepared to listen to alternatives.

reply to all who used the 'fully man-fully god explanation

i did knew the explanation and thats the reason i requested not to give it because its a 'dead end' for discussion if thats the best you can do.
It is like you saying me to flip a coin and wanting that 'heads you win' & 'tails you win' and then complaining when i refuse to toss it.
The fully man-fully god arguement stands no matter what,
even if bible contained a quote by Jesus pbuh saying "i am not god, please dont worship me, i am just a mighty Prophet and Christ"
you would say "thats my god talking as 'fully man'."
REALLY?!!!

The fully man-fully god idea is an 'Explanation'
like a wife asking a husband where he was and he answering "i was working" while she tells him that she saw him at a bar having beer and his 'explanation' is "i was fully at work & fully at the bar, its a unique event that happens once in a millennium" a really creative 'explanation' but i doubt even if any christian wife would buy it.
Explanations evolve when the inconsistencies in the faith and the scriptures are needed to be smoothed out. It took many centuries to come to these explanations and yet they dont fit and the last explanation always is that "you should just have faith" to a christian and "you dont get it because you havent recieved the faith yet through Jesus" to a skeptic.

Let me just tell you how it doesnt fit in short without derailing my own thread.
If Jesus pbuh was fully man when he dint knew the hour, when he asked the cup to pass, when he cried to God on the cross then he died as a man and also resurrected as a man. Nothing different than how he raised a dead man.
So no god died, a fully man cant take the sins of the world and so the sins still stay.
Unless i am given the 'explanation' that he was fully man-fully god at the 'same' time but then was he not the same when 'not' knowing the hour.
The last 'explanation' "he could switch to one or both at will because he is god"
DEAD END!!!

reply to post by Joecroft

Jesus was the first created being, by the Father. All things were then created, through the Father and The Son.

how you say that, Jesus pbuh said "before Abraham was, I am" not "before Adam was, I am"
or you would quote

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

the objection i have is, "in the beginning there should be God"
and you already acknowledged that Jesus pbuh is a created being. If you agree that he is not divine then we can agree.