Get rid of Minimum Wage, Save the World!

Originally posted by GAOTU789
reply to post by burdman30ott6

 

It isn't the guy at the burger joint that's making minimum wage but the guy who is a part of Local 123 Bag Changers and Broom Pushers of North America that is killing the economy. And the if you work here, you are part of the union crap. The guy changing garbage bags for 25/30$ an hour or the guy turning the last bolt on a car for 45/50 bucks, that's were the ire should be.

They had their place at one time, they even have a place in some sectors today but the bloated unions are a bigger drain on the economy then Bob down at the corner store making minimum wage is.

edit on 7-2-2013 by GAOTU789 because: (no reason given)

you do have some evidence for this right?....a few hundred? a few thousand?...please show the vast number of jobs where guys make 25 to 30 dollars an hour changing garbage bags. and is that the only thing they do?....what if they also clean out sewer lines, do electrical, plumbing, fix things that would cost the employeer more to call out a private company that charges 80 dollars an hour.
since only 13% of the entire work force here in america are union...using the word "bloated" to say these unions are what is wrong with our economy does not make your case.

i think shareholders should outsource CEO's, and the rest of the top tier executives....500k a year, no benefits, and no bonuses should be the max. one can live quite well on half a million a year, while returning the rest to the shareholders.

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

I think you are looking the wrong way around. We need to introduce a maximum wage instead of revoking the minimum wage. We should get the trillions back the bankers have put in offshore banks accounts too.

Max wage is silly, great way to retard Innovation and Competition, why reinvest the billion dollars in my bank account if im only going to collect 500k of it each year. To large of a risk with little return. because there is little return, my money sits in the bank and you sit at home jobless because i dont want to open up the factory down the street for little return

Now why would "bankers" put "trillions" in off shore bank accounts? hummm??? Maybe because other countrys are alot more tax friendly then the united states.

Now imagine that the USA drops its tax rates lower than those “off shore” accounts. There will no longer be a need to hide ones money and those accounts stay in the USA.

Use your brain, people do things for a reason, if you make a reason for people to keep there money here, they will.

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

First let's get rid of Men. They've become obsolete, we can fight, we can just use the thousands of frozen sperm to keep perpetuating the species (besides there would be no overpopulation either this way).

^^^THAT makes just as much sense as your OP, just as ridiculous and babaric. Just saying.

edit on 6-2-2013 by ldyserenity because: spelling

edit on 6-2-2013 by ldyserenity because: stupic typeboard

Its only ridiculous and babaric because you dont understand it. dropping the minimum wage would create deflation dropping the prices of all goods and service. Yes wages would go down but the cost of goods goes down with it. Both will drop equally and relatively, in time wages will rise and the cost of goods will stay low because of the increse in productivity, raising the standard living of all.

The idea of no minimum wage is scary at first and would be horrible if there was monopolies in individual sectors of the economy. (there could be an argument that we has such monopolies now) With monopolies, there’s no competition, with no competition, wages get fixed and prices rise. Hummmm sounds like todays world

Your goal in life shouldn't be to make minimum wage but then everybodys different. If you have peaked your career path out at it maybe it's time to rethink your life or at least realize you have nothing to whine about that isn't your own doing

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by leemachino
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

Those union "thugs" are the reaso for 40 hour work weeks, sick time so you dont get fired for the flu, vacation, workplace safety and company accountability if you get hurt on the job, workmans comp and the MIDDLE CLASS that once made this country the greatest place.

Speaking of MSM, your ideas pretty much mirror Fox News views. You also said in a corrupt free world. Corruption runs rampid from the companies down to the unions, even on the local level. There has tp be some safeguards in place or else we would be working 16-20 hours a day for pennies and commiting suicide on the job like those in China. China is the model, right?

I live in Michigan where Right to Work just passed. The Governor slipped it through a lame duck holiday session claiming it was about bringing jobs to Michigan. He even cited Indiana as the model. I have been to Indiana, I will pass. That state is like the armpit of the country. The companies he spoke of that moved jobs to Indiana already had the contracts in place before Right to Work. Oh yeah and about a week ago the Gov admitted it wasnt about jobs.

I worked for a union company for 6 years. I quit to take a job with a non union job. I am speaking from both sides. They are a necessary evil. They do protect a few bad apples but more importantly they protect good workerswho may need that protection for a reason such as an illness or sick family member.

Basically in a perfect world free markets would be better. The world is not perfect, its corrupt and I would take minimum wage laws over a free market Walmart economy.

Sorry buddy, Henry Ford established the 40 hour work week. Not your union buddy's, the union modeled there work ethics from Ford. All free markets. Sounds like you watch to much CNN. I don't watch tv so no fox news, sounds like you watch them alot to know if it's the same view so I'll take your word for it.

edit on 6-2-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

Sorry pal, i dont own a television. I read the news from many different websites. Yes you can thank the unions for a 40 hour work week. Ford did not start the 40 hour week. It started in Britain during industrial revolution. 1817. It was endorsed first in America by the American Federation of Labor back in 1889 and the American Mine workers won the right to have it in 1898. Before Henry Ford. I like how you skipped over the other benefits unions gave us that Im sure you enjoy (unless you own your own business). They also built that 68 camero you love.

Nowadays mega corporations decide free markets (cause theyre really not free). I will gladly take a minimum wage protection over a Walmart deciding wages.
The factory fire in China a few months back, yes Walmart declined their request for additional funds to boost safety. Thanks to unions, we have workplace safety regulations.

And again in a perfect world your idea would have merit. We dont live in a world like that and never will.

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

First let's get rid of Men. They've become obsolete, we can fight, we can just use the thousands of frozen sperm to keep perpetuating the species (besides there would be no overpopulation either this way).

^^^THAT makes just as much sense as your OP, just as ridiculous and babaric. Just saying.

edit on 6-2-2013 by ldyserenity because: spelling

edit on 6-2-2013 by ldyserenity because: stupic typeboard

Its only ridiculous and babaric because you dont understand it. dropping the minimum wage would create deflation dropping the prices of all goods and service. Yes wages would go down but the cost of goods goes down with it. Both will drop equally and relatively, in time wages will rise and the cost of goods will stay low because of the increse in productivity, raising the standard living of all.

The idea of no minimum wage is scary at first and would be horrible if there was monopolies in individual sectors of the economy. (there could be an argument that we has such monopolies now) With monopolies, there’s no competition, with no competition, wages get fixed and prices rise. Hummmm sounds like todays world

edit on 7-2-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

When have commodities ever gone down? Wages have been stagnant for over a decade and when adjusted for inflation have gone down. Yet the cost of everything keeps going up.

Get rid of banks and money. But my idea is different in a system with money. Raise minimum wage to above the poverty level, AND, like good countries such as Norway, have price control on the necessities such as Food, Housing, Utilities, Transportation. After their taxes, they have more money in their pocket than we do, and that means more local businesses exist and are graced. Its a win/win.

In addition, profit share, for real. Not the kind 7/11 did. For example when we start our business this year, starting small, money earned, will be a joke. We'll be tripling cost and slowly creating more and more, while slowly buying a few more tools. Eventually we may draw a portion as wage.....But then if and when it gets going, 1 of 2 things will occur. Sharing the profit after amounts set aside for growth, and other businesses are started (have lots of boys here and don't believe in putting all the eggs in one basket), in addition, would rather buy the products from self employed artisans, creators and market them, than literally have an employee, so really training people to become self employed and mushroom out the businesses into many in the end.

Originally posted by leemachino

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by leemachino
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

Those union "thugs" are the reaso for 40 hour work weeks, sick time so you dont get fired for the flu, vacation, workplace safety and company accountability if you get hurt on the job, workmans comp and the MIDDLE CLASS that once made this country the greatest place.

Speaking of MSM, your ideas pretty much mirror Fox News views. You also said in a corrupt free world. Corruption runs rampid from the companies down to the unions, even on the local level. There has tp be some safeguards in place or else we would be working 16-20 hours a day for pennies and commiting suicide on the job like those in China. China is the model, right?

I live in Michigan where Right to Work just passed. The Governor slipped it through a lame duck holiday session claiming it was about bringing jobs to Michigan. He even cited Indiana as the model. I have been to Indiana, I will pass. That state is like the armpit of the country. The companies he spoke of that moved jobs to Indiana already had the contracts in place before Right to Work. Oh yeah and about a week ago the Gov admitted it wasnt about jobs.

I worked for a union company for 6 years. I quit to take a job with a non union job. I am speaking from both sides. They are a necessary evil. They do protect a few bad apples but more importantly they protect good workerswho may need that protection for a reason such as an illness or sick family member.

Basically in a perfect world free markets would be better. The world is not perfect, its corrupt and I would take minimum wage laws over a free market Walmart economy.

Sorry buddy, Henry Ford established the 40 hour work week. Not your union buddy's, the union modeled there work ethics from Ford. All free markets. Sounds like you watch to much CNN. I don't watch tv so no fox news, sounds like you watch them alot to know if it's the same view so I'll take your word for it.

edit on 6-2-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

Sorry pal, i dont own a television. I read the news from many different websites. Yes you can thank the unions for a 40 hour work week. Ford did not start the 40 hour week. It started in Britain during industrial revolution. 1817. It was endorsed first in America by the American Federation of Labor back in 1889 and the American Mine workers won the right to have it in 1898. Before Henry Ford. I like how you skipped over the other benefits unions gave us that Im sure you enjoy (unless you own your own business). They also built that 68 camero you love.

Nowadays mega corporations decide free markets (cause theyre really not free). I will gladly take a minimum wage protection over a Walmart deciding wages.
The factory fire in China a few months back, yes Walmart declined their request for additional funds to boost safety. Thanks to unions, we have workplace safety regulations.

your skewing the fact that we dont have free market principals today. Corporations are backed and shelterd by the government, my idea in the OP would not work in this world at the moment. but in a free market world, they would.

Originally posted by leemachino

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

First let's get rid of Men. They've become obsolete, we can fight, we can just use the thousands of frozen sperm to keep perpetuating the species (besides there would be no overpopulation either this way).

^^^THAT makes just as much sense as your OP, just as ridiculous and babaric. Just saying.

edit on 6-2-2013 by ldyserenity because: spelling

edit on 6-2-2013 by ldyserenity because: stupic typeboard

Its only ridiculous and babaric because you dont understand it. dropping the minimum wage would create deflation dropping the prices of all goods and service. Yes wages would go down but the cost of goods goes down with it. Both will drop equally and relatively, in time wages will rise and the cost of goods will stay low because of the increse in productivity, raising the standard living of all.

The idea of no minimum wage is scary at first and would be horrible if there was monopolies in individual sectors of the economy. (there could be an argument that we has such monopolies now) With monopolies, there’s no competition, with no competition, wages get fixed and prices rise. Hummmm sounds like todays world

edit on 7-2-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

When have commodities ever gone down? Wages have been stagnant for over a decade and when adjusted for inflation have gone down. Yet the cost of everything keeps going up.

commodities will never go down because the banks dont make money when there is deflation. Deflation is the silver bullet to banks. but again, the world banks and government run the show.

Originally posted by jefwane
Also, I've seen it mentioned that increasing minimum wage also increases the incentive to automate production. Robots are one time investments that require only maintenance to keep going. At some point producers must make the decision whether to hire flesh and blood that require wages, employer contributions to SS, unemployment insurance, costs from social programs like Obamacare, and other costs. At some point, and I don't think it's that far off, it will probably be cheaper to automate all you can, pay skilled technicians what you must to maintain that automation, and not hire any unskilled (ie Minimum wage labor) beyond what is absolutely necessary.

It's happening already. Rethink Robotics has released the Baxter robot that has a lifespan of 3 years, and costs $22,000, which is approximately the same as paying a Chinese worker's wages. So right now it's on equal grounds with slave labor, and with Moore's law, in another 5 years it will be cheaper to buy 3 robots instead of paying 1 Chinese worker.

At which point, we as a world, have to determine if human life, or profits are more important, because profits will no longer reach the average person's hands or shared with the greater public, and the wealth distribution in the world will be 99% with nothing, 1% with everything, and no opportunities for the 99% to move up. It's kind of crazy to imagine a world where there's less opportunities for getting out of the poor casts of society, but today marks the beginning of that.

spectrum.ieee.org...

Let's see how much people say that it's immoral to practice wealth distribution when 80% of the world can't even get a job.

The Roman republic fell because the wealthy choose to give all the work to slaves instead of freemen. Welcome to the fall of the Roman republic V2.0. Keep protecting the rich though, because i'm sure that they'll protect you in 10 years.

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

First let's get rid of Men. They've become obsolete, we can fight, we can just use the thousands of frozen sperm to keep perpetuating the species (besides there would be no overpopulation either this way).

^^^THAT makes just as much sense as your OP, just as ridiculous and babaric. Just saying.

edit on 6-2-2013 by ldyserenity because: spelling

edit on 6-2-2013 by ldyserenity because: stupic typeboard

Its only ridiculous and babaric because you dont understand it. dropping the minimum wage would create deflation dropping the prices of all goods and service. Yes wages would go down but the cost of goods goes down with it. Both will drop equally and relatively, in time wages will rise and the cost of goods will stay low because of the increse in productivity, raising the standard living of all.

The idea of no minimum wage is scary at first and would be horrible if there was monopolies in individual sectors of the economy. (there could be an argument that we has such monopolies now) With monopolies, there’s no competition, with no competition, wages get fixed and prices rise. Hummmm sounds like todays world

edit on 7-2-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

assumptions not based in fact:
1...dropping min. wage would create deflation
2...when wages go down, cost of goods to consumers goes down
3...wages rise when productivity goes up

reply to post by camaro68ss

Thats why I stated above in a perfect world the OP would have merit. A true free market is too fragile to be sustained because people by nature are corrupt and that would ruin the market. Thats why IMO we need certain safeguards.

reply to post by camaro68ss

economics 101 people

You are clearly insane. Minimum wage forces employers to pay their workers a somewhat livable wage. Henry Ford didn't need this force on him, he INVENTED IT.

Remove minimum wage, and let the "free market" decide what you get paid? So, how many employees do you have then? Because only someone already in a position to be unaffected by something like this, would even entertain the notion for an instant.

Let me tell you how that plays out. It's a race to the bottom, people need to work, and will work, regardless of the wage. Once you remove the lower cap, companies have no incentive to pay a reasonable wage, because there is an endless supply of starving people desperate to work.

If you want a clear example of why this would literally destroy your entire country, go to any major retail chain and ask their employees about their shifts. They will tell you they work full time hours, but are only considered part time because of some loopholes, allowing the employer to pay them less, and give them no benefits.

Minimum wage isn't an incentive to work. It's a bulkhead against the pure greed of humanity.

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

First let's get rid of Men. They've become obsolete, we can fight, we can just use the thousands of frozen sperm to keep perpetuating the species (besides there would be no overpopulation either this way).

^^^THAT makes just as much sense as your OP, just as ridiculous and babaric. Just saying.

edit on 6-2-2013 by ldyserenity because: spelling

edit on 6-2-2013 by ldyserenity because: stupic typeboard

Its only ridiculous and babaric because you dont understand it. dropping the minimum wage would create deflation dropping the prices of all goods and service. Yes wages would go down but the cost of goods goes down with it. Both will drop equally and relatively, in time wages will rise and the cost of goods will stay low because of the increse in productivity, raising the standard living of all.

The idea of no minimum wage is scary at first and would be horrible if there was monopolies in individual sectors of the economy. (there could be an argument that we has such monopolies now) With monopolies, there’s no competition, with no competition, wages get fixed and prices rise. Hummmm sounds like todays world

edit on 7-2-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

assumptions not based in fact:
1...dropping min. wage would create deflation
2...when wages go down, cost of goods to consumers goes down
3...wages rise when productivity goes up

Awnser
1. Deflation will accrue, cost of goods being produced drops through competition and free markets.
2. read number 1
3. in a free market, yes. your labor produces more goods per hour, you are more valuable than the average Joe. you get paid more to stay onboard. In a free and honest market, yes

reply to post by camaro68ss


If anything we need to raise minimum wage to $10/hr and make it so that goods produced outside of the United States costs a lot more to import. The minimum wage protects workers by making it so that those making the least can survive and minimum wage doesn't even support a living. The NWO wants it so that nobody gets paid for work least not the minimum wage! They want to return things to the slave order of getting the crap out of you or threatened with jail if you refuse to work for free. I don't hear anyone else talking about creating a 100% inheritance tax so that no wealth is handed down to anyone and everyone has a fair playing ground at birth. We need to find better solutions to our problems than the makeshift bandage that keeps falling off.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

economics 101 people

You are clearly insane. Minimum wage forces employers to pay their workers a somewhat livable wage. Henry Ford didn't need this force on him, he INVENTED IT.

Remove minimum wage, and let the "free market" decide what you get paid? So, how many employees do you have then? Because only someone already in a position to be unaffected by something like this, would even entertain the notion for an instant.

Let me tell you how that plays out. It's a race to the bottom, people need to work, and will work, regardless of the wage. Once you remove the lower cap, companies have no incentive to pay a reasonable wage, because there is an endless supply of starving people desperate to work.

If you want a clear example of why this would literally destroy your entire country, go to any major retail chain and ask their employees about their shifts. They will tell you they work full time hours, but are only considered part time because of some loopholes, allowing the employer to pay them less, and give them no benefits.

Minimum wage isn't an incentive to work. It's a bulkhead against the pure greed of humanity.

I work in an industry where there is no minimum wage. The lowest person is getting paid about 42k a year in the office. If we paid them minimum wage then no one would work for us. The free market is determining their pay based on competition.

So in your logic, why is this “evil” greedy company not forcing wages down to minimum wage where I work? I have no collage degree, but I have a set of skills companies want and will pay for. Because of my productivity, I make the company 3 times what they pay me. They reward me for it with higher wages.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

economics 101 people

You are clearly insane. Minimum wage forces employers to pay their workers a somewhat livable wage. Henry Ford didn't need this force on him, he INVENTED IT.

Remove minimum wage, and let the "free market" decide what you get paid? So, how many employees do you have then? Because only someone already in a position to be unaffected by something like this, would even entertain the notion for an instant.

Let me tell you how that plays out. It's a race to the bottom, people need to work, and will work, regardless of the wage. Once you remove the lower cap, companies have no incentive to pay a reasonable wage, because there is an endless supply of starving people desperate to work.

If you want a clear example of why this would literally destroy your entire country, go to any major retail chain and ask their employees about their shifts. They will tell you they work full time hours, but are only considered part time because of some loopholes, allowing the employer to pay them less, and give them no benefits.

Minimum wage isn't an incentive to work. It's a bulkhead against the pure greed of humanity.

to follow up on what you are saying...right now companies are moving manufacturing from china!...china, no less!... to cambodia, indonesia, vietnam, because of the lower wages....lower than chinas wages!
eonomists, along with the wealthy business owners that preach this crap, are all a bunch of rat bastards that think the way of the OP...revolution should be targeting the mega-wealthy, otherwise,. the mega-wealthy will simply transfer their capital to another "sucker" nation, if an individual country passes some type of minimum wage. actions speak louder than words

Originally posted by EyeDesign
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

If anything we need to raise minimum wage to $10/hr and make it so that goods produced outside of the United States costs a lot more to import. The minimum wage protects workers by making it so that those making the least can survive and minimum wage doesn't even support a living. The NWO wants it so that nobody gets paid for work least not the minimum wage! They want to return things to the slave order of getting the crap out of you or threatened with jail if you refuse to work for free. I don't hear anyone else talking about creating a 100% inheritance tax so that no wealth is handed down to anyone and everyone has a fair playing ground at birth. We need to find better solutions to our problems than the makeshift bandage that keeps falling off.

Raising the minimum wage with no raise in productivity only increase the cost of good produced. Costs of goods sold go up and inflation increase, making your minimum wage increase useless based on the increase of inflation and cost of living rising equally to the minimum wage increase. It washes out.

There is always the other side of the equation that you people never think of.