Get rid of Minimum Wage, Save the World!

Originally posted by camaro68ss
I’m going to try and convince you why getting rid of the minimum wage would be good for this country and any country for the matter.

Let’s take a look at Henry Ford, No minimum wage at the time. He opened up his Ford car plant and paid all his workers $5 a day when his competitors where paying their workers $2.50 a day. Solely on free market principles, more people flocked to work for Ford. Once securing a job, they worked extra hard to keep that job, increasing productivity of the plant and driving down cost to produce a car. Because of free market principles, his company boomed and the workers prospered. Ford Motors was known as the peoples company.

You neglect to factor in that Ford's formula included paying his employees enough to be able to afford to buy his product. This, my friend, is a post capitalist economy where products are made for pennies overseas, sold for dollars here, and Wall Street pockets the difference. Sorry, you are comparing apples and ducks when you cite Ford as part of your premise. Welcome to 2013.

reply to post by camaro68ss



In principle, what you say is true. Any time there is any kind of safety net, focus on success diminishes.

But getting rid of safety nets....that'll never happen. Because even if it is logical, a majority of people put logic aside when reactions kick in from deep within. And then there are politicians willing to trade those safety nets for votes.

Entire crops of organizations make a living out of protecting things like the minimum wage and affirmative action. Bad, bad ideas that live on only because someone else is afraid of living without a safety net.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


It is the difference in focus of principle. For Ford, the principle was his employees. In 2013, it is investors. Who do people work for anymore? Their families? Well, of course. But when you talk about employee loyalty....who is the employee loyal too? In the early days of Ford, they were loyal to Henry Ford. Now, they are loyal to a brand, to an entity. All bow to the corporeal corporation.

reply to post by camaro68ss


You could make the case, but it wouldn't hold any economic water. Frankly -- we need more liquidity at street level, not less. The engine of our economy is grinding down to nubs because there are fewer dollars being spent on Main Street. Wall Street is a meaningless indicator. "Job creators" don't. When no one buys a hamburger, the guys on the the line can't pay their car note, or cell phone bill. It all crumbles upward from there. It has never worked in the other direction in the history of the world, and frankly -- never will.

Recommendation: Any 100 level macroeconomics class.

Coffee shop employees making $20.00/hr + benefits, nurses made $43.00+

cnews.canoe.ca...

how does this happen? when a dropout pours coffee into a cup and gets 20 bucks an hour? pfttt
Why did I bother to go to university?

Oh I know. Unions. Sure they started out with the right idea but uhhh yeah, they are all (CAW/UAW) a bunch of lazy, drunk bazturds.

and

To understand this principle, look at doctors or any specialty skilled job. Doctors are not paid a minimum wage, Why? Because no doctor will work for minimum wage when they know the hospital down the street will pay them a “fair” market wage for their skill. Why should this be any different for any other skill?

wth, you are comparing someone who shoves a bolt into a hole for 10 hours a day with someone who actually READ BOOKS and studied to save your life one day???

I am sorry, but assembly workers (and of the like) are payed for their TIME, not for their particular SKILL. Actual SKILLS take a lot of time to perfect and are payed accordingly. What disturbs me is that they want to make 50 bucks an hour to shove that bolt or push some button (they chose that job, don't forget) then they complain when those jobs are gone overseas or they get laid off.

A real thinkin' person would plan ahead that this too good of a deal can't last forever.

Oh there will be a time when everyone recieves the same wages, but NOT on your terms.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

In principle, what you say is true. Any time there is any kind of safety net, focus on success diminishes.

But getting rid of safety nets....that'll never happen. Because even if it is logical, a majority of people put logic aside when reactions kick in from deep within. And then there are politicians willing to trade those safety nets for votes.

Entire crops of organizations make a living out of protecting things like the minimum wage and affirmative action. Bad, bad ideas that live on only because someone else is afraid of living without a safety net.

You make a couple reasonable points here, but I wouldn't say his point was "logical" or that "in principle it was true." The only part of his post that was true, is that workers who are better paid care more about keeping their jobs, and working harder. Competitive wages are good for the health of a business.

Other than that, in principal what he said was not true-- if minimum wage was abolished, some, perhaps most US companies would likely pay less, as they could get away with it.

The obvious counter-point to this is that if people wouldn't take the jobs, the employers couldn't get away with paying that little-- that they would have to pay a fair wage to attract or keep workers. And although this may be true in theory, it is not true in practice when most of the companies out there are trying to plunder the pocket of the lower-level worker with third-world wages. If the only jobs out there are all paying $5/hr, you can't exactly go "elsewhere" unless "elsewhere" is the unemployment line, or skid row.

Originally posted by camaro68ss


again, my arguments are of corruption free worlds. With corruption, free markets dont work

And there in is the nub. That world does not exist. I understand both sides of the argument and agree with the fact that the minimum wage has hurt the economy in some sectors but until that corruption free world exists, it is a small protection afforded unskilled labour that has to take those jobs. Minimum wage doesn't help increase the middle class, the place where small business owners reside, the real economic driver of the economy.

There are a few examples of companies paying decent wages for unskilled labour, Costco come to mind, but I am not aware of many others.

As far as doctors and more highly skilled labour such as engineers is concerned, it is on par with the level of skill required for the job that determines the wage/salary, not so much the market.

Originally posted by WaterBottle
Yeahhhhhhhhh

Lets all be paid slave wages... like they are in developing countries.

Yeah, lets not.

That idea works for some people , most notable those with $$ .

Not long ago she also suggested that there needs to be a "Cap" on the number of Billionaires,I agree,a cap is needed and zero billionaires sounds like a good thing.

The world's richest woman wants to cut your pay. Australian mining magnate Gina Rinehart, who's sitting on a $30 billion fortune (thanks in part to a hefty inheritance) and makes an estimated $600 per second, has followed up her recent suggestion that if you’re not wildly rich like her, it's because you're a lazy bum who smokes and drinks too much. Now she also claims you're being paid too much. In a recent speech, Rinehart said she's worried that Australian workers’ pesky penchant for fair wages is keeping the country from being globally competitive. After all, she notes, "Africans want to work, and its workers are willing to work for less than $2 per day."

Source - 1 of many

@OP, Please post your CV

reply to post by camaro68ss


First let's get rid of Men. They've become obsolete, we can fight, we can just use the thousands of frozen sperm to keep perpetuating the species (besides there would be no overpopulation either this way).

^^^THAT makes just as much sense as your OP, just as ridiculous and babaric. Just saying.

reply to post by camaro68ss


I'm sorry to be so blunt, but your idea is stupid.

Having a minimum wage does not prevent companies from paying employees a higher wage so they attract a better quality of workers.

Look, you even give an example

A good example of dropping the minimum wage would be In n’ Out burgers on the west coast. They pay their employees $12 an hour starting. It’s the highest paying fast food joint around. Because of it, the workers’ productivity is externally high. Everyone wants to keep their good paying job. Because of the high productivity, burgers are a lower price but of GREAT quality.

You destroy your own argument with this example. Nothing is preventing every company from doing this...and yet they don't. It's not because of minimum wage because they don't do this, they don't do this for a couple reasons...greed...and a plentiful workforce.

Again...I'm sorry, but your idea is stupid.

reply to post by camaro68ss


Right right now I am working not getting any compensation, I work 65 hours on average a week, just to keep room (no board just room) It sucks and you know what I do not feel inspired to do great work, I will do average and always I used to do above and beyond with whatever pay rate I got (Many times that was min wage). But I felt that I was treated fairly right now, NOT SO MUCH.
That's from someone whose experienced both sides of the debate.

reply to post by camaro68ss


The government determines minimum wage. SO it is the government that is keeping people in poverty (which is what they want anyways).

Freeing business to pay what the market would bear takes the onus off government and places it in the hands of the people.

I'd say your idea has merit!

Op you have a point and i can tell it by the way your attacked by the people focused on an economy reliant on safety nets.

To those that come in here bashing the op without a moments thoughts , ask any other country in the world their population will say Americans have become fat and lazy and thus less productive. As a company owner would you pay more for less production or pay more for increased production?

It is as simple as supply and demand its not a hard concept.

Should be illegal to pay anyone less than 2k a month take home doing anything.


All that disagree guess what?

What trickles down eventually trickles up....you will understand soon.

reply to post by camaro68ss


What about the minimum wage stops employers from rewarding the more productive workers in the form of raises and bonus's?

Originally posted by superluminal11
Should be illegal to pay anyone less than 2k a month take home doing anything.


All that disagree guess what?

What trickles down eventually trickles up....you will understand soon.

As a child i shared a room with 2 sisters in a single room trailer. My family never once asked for help we used the "old american way" and have been rewarded with plenty of success. Now someone who want to ruin that dream is standing their begging instead of working for it.

If everyone made atleast 2k than the value of goods would go up and Americans would be paying 10 dollars for a gallon of gas. In other words Americans would still be fat lazy and broke.

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

What about the minimum wage stops employers from rewarding the more productive workers in the form of raises and bonus's?

Minimum wage creates an artificial "standard" that provides business an "out" as in paying their employees.

With the artificial standard eliminated, businesses would have to pay to KEEP their employees.

Has anyone seen this put into practice? I mean is there a country that had min wage that no longer does, and is this how it turned out for them? As what he states in the OP? Seriously has anyone seen this implemented anywhere and can prove that it would help? ANYONE, Ferris Bueller...Bueller...Bueller..

Originally posted by camaro68ss
Free market principals would bring those jobs back, but instead the union thugs drive up the wages, lowering productivity and force owners to ship jobs over seas to more competitive markets.

Minimum wage isn't the problem, unions are. Keep the minimum wage, hell, increase it to a living wage if you must. That said, make the entire United States a Right to Work state. Also permit an increase in wages based on whether or not an employee is unionized. It is absolutely unacceptable that we are seeing professions like nurses, pilots, and even professional, multimillion dollar athletes striking for increases in pay. That's bullcrap. They should have the right to unionize, but that's where it ends... they should not have the right to dictate that everyone they work with has to join the union, nor should there be any repercussions to workers who refuse to join the union or who decide to continue their gainfull work while the unionized workers are striking. Employers and the workers who do not wish to see part of their pay go into union boss pockets and politician coffers should have a legal mechanism by which not belonging to the union can be incentivised.

face it, Asia doesn't have labor unions. The writing was on the wall when the American unions managed to protect even the laziest worker from being fired for cause while also paying him $30 an hour to use the entirety of his GED attaching the plastic cup holder inside each new Chevy. Those companies took their production lines elsewhere because they had reached their limit of hearing demands from unions and still watching the unions bitch and strike even after their demands were reached.

Minimum wage will destroy this country. Minimum wage increase inflation. It also allows owners to hire less people when they can hire more people.

Plus, u don't even have to work for minimum wage, unless u r really dumb or unskilled to the level of handicap. Anyone with half a brain can find a job for more than minimum wage. Let the handicap have the less paying jobs.