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Originally posted by daskakik
Originally posted by ParasuvO
reply to post by CX
I laugh at the people who are beyond paranoid, and those are the ones complaining about this source.
Sorry but I think you have that backwards. The author of this article has got to be the most paranoid person out there. Anyone who sees a killer behind every lab coat needs help.
Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by 2manyquestions
Someone arrives at a hospital having a heart attack after decades of an unhealthy lifestyle and the doctors are not able to save him and you want to place the blame on the doctors? Maybe the Health Ranger is OK with that but I am not.
The deaths from drunk driving are probably not included because of the lack of intent to kill on the part of the driver.
edit on 4-2-2013 by daskakik because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by pillock
Quoting naturalnews , believing what they are saying and posting it here on ATS is a double face palm.
We know that naturalnews is a bad site to be quoting .
Originally posted by fnpmitchreturns
????? Doctors should be able to tell if an elderly woman in her 70s who had a severe seizure had a dislocated jaw vs a stroke? The moronic doctors at the hospital let Aunt Lee lay there for 7 days before her care giver, Sharon my fiancée, got over a severe cold went to see her. Within minutes of her arrival, Sharon called for a doctor and Lee's jaw was reset! The hospital was going to let her starve to death because Lee had a living will....
making excuses for piss poor doctoring is all your doing ....
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Doctors are people, criminals are people, mentally disturbed people are people. [It] Doesn't matter what instrument is being wielded or what the intentions are, the victims are still dead regardless of whether it happened with a gun, with a scalpel, with a car, poison, intentionally or accidentally.
Originally posted by unityemissions
I'm pretty sure this is a lie. Lie by omission at the very least.
How many die because of the three mentioned? How many die due to other reasons not mentioned? How many were already dead men walking, and then put into doctors hands, and doctors try their best, and the patient still dies?
This number seems pretty damned bogus. Especially considering the source. Naturalnews is not a legitimate source of information to be trusted, in my assessment. It's propaganda.
About 1.14 million patient-safety incidents occurred among the 37 million hospitalizations in the Medicare population over the years 2000-2002.
Of the total 323,993 deaths among Medicare patients in those years who developed one or more patient-safety incidents, 263,864, or 81 percent, of these deaths were directly attributable to the incident(s).
One in every four Medicare patients who were hospitalized from 2000 to 2002 and experienced a patient-safety incident died.
The 16 patient-safety incidents accounted for $8.54 billion in excess in-patient costs to the Medicare system over the three years studied. Extrapolated to the entire U.S., an extra $19 billion was spent and more than 575,000 preventable deaths occurred from 2000 to 2002
The JOURNAL of the AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION (JAMA) Vol 284, No 4, July 26th 2000 article written by Dr Barbara Starfield, MD, MPH, of the Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene and Public Health, shows that medical errors may be the third leading cause of death in the United States.
The report apparently shows there are 2,000 deaths/year from unnecessary surgery; 7000 deaths/year from medication errors in hospitals; 20,000 deaths/year from other errors in hospitals; 80,000 deaths/year from infections in hospitals; 106,000 deaths/year from non-error, adverse effects of medications - these total up to 225,000 deaths per year in the US from iatrogenic causes which ranks these deaths as the # 3 killer. Iatrogenic is a term used when a patient dies as a direct result of treatments by a physician, whether it is from misdiagnosis of the ailment or from adverse drug reactions used to treat the illness. (drug reactions are the most common cause).
Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by fnpmitchreturns
One of the articles you posted puts the death by accident at less than 200,000. The CDC estimates that Physician office visits are about a billion a year so:
200,000/1Billion = .0002 or .02%
Is there a problem. Yes but it isn't as bad as you or the article in the OP are making it out to be and if you add the lame part about gun control, which you just seemed to toss aside to push what your trying to push, the article is even more ridiculous.
Originally posted by fnpmitchreturns
as I told another poster that gun deaths/control is a poor analogy ... something I would not have used ...
as far a the percentages of deaths compared to doctor visits I take with a grain of salt .... because that includes ALL visits even for routine care .....
I would advise you to volunteer at a nursing home if you want to see the inside and not the fluffy feel good side of the medical business.....
Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by 2manyquestions
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Doctors are people, criminals are people, mentally disturbed people are people. [It] Doesn't matter what instrument is being wielded or what the intentions are, the victims are still dead regardless of whether it happened with a gun, with a scalpel, with a car, poison, intentionally or accidentally.
The logic is 'Dr's kill more people than guns. So where's the Dr Control?."
Let's iron this out a bit.
If people are dying of adverse drug effects, is it because the Dr. is holding them down and shoving pills down their throat? No. The Dr. is making an educated diagnosis, based upon what he learned in American educational systems, with pressure from pharmaceutical companies bent on profit, and the patient is willingly ingesting the drug without question.
Is the Dr. forcing the patient to go to the Dr. against his will? No.
Did the patient likely have health complications before going to the Dr.? Probably.
Is it the Dr's aim to "deal death" to his patients? Rhetorical question.
Will more people live if no one ever went to the Dr.? ........
Dr's are not weapons. And there was no mention of doing away with the drugs, the pharmaceutical pressure, the unhealthy habits of the patient or the obviously poor standard of a medical education—the real causes of this 'holocaust.'
I'm not arguing gun control. I'm arguing the lack of critical thought in the author's polemic.
Also:
"Guns don't kill people. People kill people." Is the lamest and least thought out cliché of an argument I've ever seen. It's akin to "it's always in the last place you look." Of course guns don't kill people; they aren't even alive. You're only pointing out the obvious.
So in other words, you cannot back that up with statistics or credible sources and are trying to obfuscate that reality. So opinion trying to be passed off as fact.
Guns can and do save lives as well. That's why you see cops carrying guns.
My argument is that people are outraged by the number of gun deaths, but don't even realize that what's really killing them receives no attention, because it doesn't meet a political agenda.