Humans kill animals then they eat them(true story)

reply to post by gosseyn


I understand there are many awful ways animals are killed to be eaten.

But im afraid that's life. Animals kill animals to eat them.

It's nice to see you're from under that rock! Some crazy things in this world! Be ready to be shocked.

Don't forget that you can't eat yoghurt either, it's got live bacterial cultures. They are living creatures too.

And honey, because that is stealing from the bees......

Oh and when you eat mushrooms you are eating some organisms fruiting body, which essentially contains the fungi's next generation i.e. you are eating fungus babies!

You can't wear anything made out of leather (aka dead cow or other animal) either.

Sorry my dear, but there is no way you are going to stop interacting with the environment, whether it is the food stuff you eat, the clothes your wear, the ores you rip out the earth for your computer and tools.

reply to post by skalla

its cool to make ethical choices about what you eat, be it organic, anti factory farm, or vegetarian or whatever, but the judging and evangelising aint cool.

Why? Because it's for animals - and not people?

Eating meat is natural

Torturing animals is not

If you have principals - what good are they if you won't stand up for them?

But you are still way cool for not annoying people

We also kill plants and eat them, make paper out of them and even clothes.

Lets all just sit around and feel sorry for all the animals and plants and let's starve to death! Even though all those lovely animals have to kill other animals to survive too.

reply to post by gosseyn


I understand gosseyn

Gift-Giving Birds May Think Much Like People

The pendulum swung back in the 20th century, to the point that now-famous primatologist Jane Goodall was originally mocked for thinking chimpanzees, humankind’s closest relative, had human-like feelings.

We now know that chimps do have such feelings, not to mention tools, another formerly human-singular capacity also seen in dolphins, elephants and even fish. Indeed, the last decade of animal behavior research seems like a parade of findings that animals are quite complicated beings. Even honeybees seem to have emotions.

A theory of mind, however, is generally still considered uniquely human. Experiments have suggested its existence in great apes, but these remain open to alternative interpretations. That birds might have a theory of mind is a remarkable claim.

At the same time, though, Clayton cautioned against assuming animals to be unintelligent. There’s an inevitable gap between what’s known and what’s been demonstrated experimentally. “Who knows? It’s not being tested,” she said. “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”

The ultimate importance of the work, Clayton said, is the richness it implies for the world around us. She referred to corvids as “the ape in your backyard.” Evolutionary anthropologist Brian Hare of Duke University echoed her words.

“This is another piece of evidence in support of the idea that corvid cognition converges with that of the great apes,” said Hare. “Just like fish, dolphins and penguins all evolved flippers independently to deal with ocean living, it seems corvids have evolved intelligence that rivals that of our own ape family.”

We're changing the way we look at the other animals - we're changing the way we think about them and how we treat them

S&F

If I was mean, I would go out to the old shop and snap some pics. Right now I have 8 rabbits hanging and bleeding out(not how it sounds, they are already dead,gutted and skinned). Snaring is good this year, plenty of stew meat.

Little more in this world can bring the joy a perfectly cooked Steak and a beer do.

Originally posted by MrConspiracy
reply to post by gosseyn

 

I understand there are many awful ways animals are killed to be eaten.

But im afraid that's life. Animals kill animals to eat them.

It's nice to see you're from under that rock! Some crazy things in this world! Be ready to be shocked.

But that isn't life is it?
If people eat meat, and absolutely they should, that doesn't mean that the animals have to be mistreated and abused and in pain before and during their death.

There are decent, humane and ethical farms out there and there is a movement towards better treatment of animals.

No more cages for chickens, free range, organic farming for cattle.

These are things we should be supporting, even if it costs a little more.

I eat meat and I enjoy it and probably always will eat meat.... but I'm very picky about what I get, where I get it and am very conscious about the place that the animal comes from.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Sapience is a curse. Unless one is dim, or chooses to live dimly, obvious contradictions between what is right/wrong, and what is natural occur.

This is the human conundrum Overcoming that animal within, exhibiting self control, the ability to overcome natural behavior and act with purpose.

It is the basis of morality, ethics, and in many cases law. To seek to be that which we are not, separating ourselves to a position above nature.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Sapience is a curse.

you got that right Tex

This is the human conundrum Overcoming that animal within, exhibiting self control, the ability to overcome natural behavior and act with purpose.

It is the basis of morality, ethics, and in many cases law. To seek to be that which we are not, separating ourselves to a position above nature.

And we are so in that place right now - humanity

Wasn't that long ago we called certain kinds of people animals so we didn't have to be worried about how we treated them

This is a very long discussion - and one worth having - I only wish people would resort less to mocking and more to thinking

But the mockery tells me something - this subject hits a nerve

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

This is the human conundrum Overcoming that animal within, exhibiting self control, the ability to overcome natural behavior and act with purpose.

wanted to say - extra stars for this alone

:-)

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by gosseyn

 

The most dangerous animal in the woods are humans.
Even the animals fear us.

Animals fear us? Try walking up to a pride of lions and see how much fear you produce. All of the fear will be coming from you. Some animals have learned to be cautious because of traps and guns, but all things being equal carnivous animals will eat a human without fear.

reply to post by gosseyn


Great point you just made there. I have to admit your little story does make it sound aweful, however, I just don't think I could live without a juicy piece of cow sitting on my plate. It just tastes soooo good!

Life feeds on life.

The moment you cease to be ok with that, stop living.

I see what you did there.

cool story bro.
I would say that post was trolling at it's finest.

15 pages of discussion for an obvious post is obvious.

good job.

Originally posted by gosseyn


Did you know that human beings actually KILL other animals to EAT them ? Don't you find that disgusting ? They even have built factories to INDUSTRIALISE the process of killing the other sentient animals and chop them in small portions that they pack in plastic. WOW. At first I didn't want to believe it but I have seen the proofs. It's 100% true. They eat dead corpses of animals that are made of exactly the same stuff as them, and almost every human being find that this is totally normal. They even encourage their own LITTLE CHILDREN to eat dead corpses of other sentient beings, imagine that... I mean, what do they have in mind ?? Can't they just think for one second ? I am truly out of words..

Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you. LOL

reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy

The loathing for meat comes from the lack of humanity that goes into obtaining it; we're talking about sentient beings being massacred so some fat f*** can stuff his or her belly with KFC. Hunting game is drastically different from maiming, raping, and killing an animal in captivity. The cruelty that comes from the meat industry is what turned me off from it; humans committing inhumane acts.

Okay, I get the fact you don't much care for the idea of digging into a big fat steak with a bottle of A-1 handy and some taters on the side to make it go down right.

The first point I'll make here is how you define sentient. It's apparently a bit different than how accepted human knowledge and understanding of the animals around us would define it. A chicken is sentient life? Do you extend this characteristic of intelligence to fish? Avian life? Insect life? Plants? Where do we draw the line or do you draw one at any point?

I'll note I've been somewhat outspoken in my support of groups like Sea Shepherd International and dearly wish I'd been aware of them when I had some inheritance money a couple years back to work with. I'd have volunteered myself or given financial support. Why? I DO firmly believe there is OTHER sentient life on this planet and one of them is being massacred by Japanese fleets to peddle meat on the street markets back in Tokyo. I just don't bestow such a thing upon all life when evidence simply doesn't support anything of the sort.

Second.... You draw a line between industrial raising of livestock for food production and hunting with rifle and knife to stock one's own freezer. Well, I appreciate that but it's also as hypocritical and cold blooded as you could be on this subject. That is a realistic option for people who live outside the major cities. They can, if so inclined and local animal populations support it, hunt their own meals. What about the millions in New York City, Chicagoland, Los Angeles or countless cities around the world? Let them starve to death?



You may notice and consider where the WORST of the drought is. That used to be called the Breadbasket of the world. Used to be.....before years of exceptional drought and crippling Gov't policy to compound a nightmare. There is NOT enough crop produced food right now to feed everyone. So...are you okay with humans dying so chickens and turkeys may live? It sounds almost silly to put that way but it's what you'd seem to be saying?

@By the way, if you'd read a bit more before replying? I'd conceded the point almost tongue in cheek to another poster about Omnivore status to humans. I'd added a note to that concession...but then, I usually do.

Originally posted by grey580
I see what you did there.

cool story bro.
I would say that post was trolling at it's finest.

15 pages of discussion for an obvious post is obvious.

good job.

Well, it is the philosophy forum, and everything is good to spark a philosophical discussion. I wanted to show what would a non-terrestrial intelligent being think of us. And also, it is possible for us to look at ourselves as if we were ourselves non-terrestrial, and this is what I did. Bizarreness is everywhere, and I see it everywhere I look. Here I repost the Alan Watts-Chesterton quote :
"It is a special kind of enlightenment to have this feeling that the usual, the way things normally are, is odd—uncanny and highly improbable. G. K. Chesterton once said that it is one thing to be amazed at a gorgon or a griffin, creatures which do not exist; but it is quite another and much higher thing to be amazed at a rhinoceros or a giraffe, creatures which do exist and look as if they don't.
— Chapter I, The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are, Alan Watts, 1966 "

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I DO firmly believe there is OTHER sentient life on this planet and one of them is being massacred by Japanese fleets to peddle meat on the street markets back in Tokyo. I just don't bestow such a thing upon all life when evidence simply doesn't support anything of the sort.

I really wish you'd rethink what you just said here

There's a scale of sentience - and this is the only thing that that's preventing you from feeling compassion for all living things?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

Okay, now lets be reasonable and sensible here. Unlike many who come and go and particularly some folks coming on here lately, I know you're a reasonable person. Your posts show it. I'd hope you'd know me to be a reasonable person. I believe my own post history shows I can and do occasionally have a complete change of thinking based on what I learn for new information or perspective in debate. It's rare but it absolutely has happened and from ATS debates in a couple cases. It''s one big reason I keep coming through the bad times around here.

I'd be happy to hear your thoughts and basis of logic for saying there is a scale of sentience where all life on Earth is concerned. First though, again, I'm really wanting to hear the definition of sentient. I know how I define it and it's running by my understanding and education thus far in life. That would seem to be the key point though and so, definition of that is everything. Since I'm on the defensive here in many ways....I'll leave that on the table for you to define and we can go from there.

(I'd note...this would make an interesting formal debate topic, Spiramirabilis. I've never participated in a proper one at ATS. Interested?)