The 2012 shift that DID and DO happen

What's your obsession with 2012?

Out of nearly 7 billion people on the planet, most of which live in countries where there is no relevence whatsoever to to 2012, there are a small handful.of people like yourself, mostly in the US claiming to feel a change.

It stinks of self importance bullcrap to make yourself feel better

About the calendar being cyclical, not linear:

reply to post by siliconpsychosis


So that is what stinks! Gee, it was bullcrap all along

Well, I'll go back to feeling bad about myself since that seems to be the preferred state of mind.
Yes man, business as usual, the light at the end of the tunnel was just a train headed my way. Silly me

But one thing confuses me; you say "people like yourself", indicating that I am not the only one with this experience..! Thus validating my claim in the OP!
Now I am really messed up and I haven't even had breakfast yet

reply to post by Raud

If you don't understand the problematics with "objective truth" you clearly haven't gone through the subject on any deeper level. Instead of talking above your head we'll just leave it right there

Snide comments are useless. Pretending you have more insight simply is a game played by those that have nothing to say.

What is has to do with 2012? Uhm, I dunno, because 2012 was last year? The experiences I share did much occur during the latter part of that year (and during the present). That is why.

Although mention was made of the Mayans, this has nothing to do with 2012 other than that is when you had your experience.

If those listening to Calleman are being "misled", the same can be said about those who listen to much of the contemporary scientific institutions. We are again closing in on the ontological outskirts here and we don't seem to be able to handle that subject in any constructive way.
I am aware that Calleman has flaws in his theories, that is why I like to form my own.

There is a big difference between Calleman telling lies, not misleading, and other sciences. Calleman purposes misrepresents the evidence. He claims things that do not exist and there is no supporting evidence for his claims. For example, Calleman claims that Mayans pyramids all have 9 levels. Not true. Calleman makes claims about the Mayans matching up 13 time periods to the universe. Not true and the time periods he give do not match up to reality.

I don't think that he gave up most of his life for a scam. I think he has his own interpretation on the fragmented material available.

He did it for the money. There was money to be made in the form of cruises, books, and lectures.

"Wishfully hope for"... Man, you know you come off as quite the disillusioned person, right?

Wrong. Talking about me is a waste of your time. It simply shows you have nothing to support what appears to be more and more like a fantasy or even a hoax.

Again how can I tell this is happening to others?
I can't. It is they who tell me, god dammit! What do you want more, statistics?

You claimed that it was happening to others. It's okay to say that you believe this is happening to others. These are often hard things to determine.

If you are so innerly unhappy with this thread why don't you just scoot and let us have our "baloney" party to ourselves, ey chummmp?

Keep the snide comments to yourself or the mods will remove your posts.

I am not innerly unhappy with this thread. I asked a question about how you knew this was real and it seems I touched a raw nerve.

reply to post by Raud


Can you explain what is in this video that supports the claim of cyclic?

Is it simply because the person has a particular heritage?

You need to get the information from a person that studies the ancient Maya.
haecceities.wordpress.com...

In short, there is no end of the LC calendar in 2012 and there were no multiple creations preceding this one, as I have argued before. People claiming that the “Maya calendar” was cyclical miss the whole point that the LC was just what the name implies, it was an endless non-repeating long count.

reply to post by Raud

But one thing confuses me; you say "people like yourself", indicating that I am not the only one with this experience..! Thus validating my claim in the OP!

If I ask the question how do you know others had the same experience you seem to be confusing that with people thinking along the same lines. Regardless, as I have already mentioned there are plenty of 2012 threads with people do the emperor's new clothes thing and pretending to vibrate faster and feel nonexistent cosmic energy, and all sorts of other things they think makes them feel like all of the 2012 belief was not a wasted time.

This is no way validates anything stated in the OP. You employed a non sequitur.

reply to post by Raud


Its hard to discuss ideas out of the box with those on the same page or at least interested, when someone who thinks they may define the motherlode of all theories, hijacks the discussion.

I believe we have many cycles, and not all bad either. I think the Light is coming in, has been already, but will come in fully, the built up energies. That we're being woken up. I only hope in my lifetime and very soon even, this happens, for its a different than lower frequency, understanding of this energy is. My soul poured out knowledge of this coming soon and setting all things to right. I was on that thread about scientology and children signing 1 billion year contracts an it poured out that the Light was coming, the Full spectrum, higher frequencies (now that may also imply lower and frequency match but don't want to get into that because of the message which was most positive. I think positive, or try to). and would right all of this. Every child forced into satanic lives and having their free will taken from them will have their lives restored as if they had lived being rescued young with a positivity. Things are going to be straightened out in ways far beyond our limited understanding of mercy, knowing, healing, perfecting. All contracts like that are null and void.

Now my conscious mind right away started questioning. So soul, you aren't in time, so does this strong urgent soon feeling mean soon by my understanding? Will I live to see it???!!!

But I do believe that is what the true cycle is.

When that Light comes in, and its already coming in in waves that is waking us up. But it has a Frequency Range, that is Multiverse and Infinity, with various types of LIght/Energy, one could say the false light and the true light, because of the enormous infinite breadth of frequency and types of energy. Going from very low gravity realms to infinitely high.

If you were to stand in the ray of sunlight, full spectrum light, and see with soul eyes, you would see everything in infinity.

Now, here we're put in this realm with flaws or dark squares to overcome. We need to work on those, work on the ways to give and learn better relationship skllls. If a teacher/counselor or helper, better delivery skills, for we're either working on lower level flaws or higher level skills here.

But Family understands everything and the degree of Mercy and Awareness and Healing is profoundly over our highest expectations.

All things will be righted. For example, a child whose free will is taken from them and they are programmed, abused and bullied into hideous contracts, so they become a killer, even ritual satanic abuse for example, its way different.

They replay all the possible timeline scenarios all the possible outcomes, and if there could have been rescues, that is given, so that only in the fullness of understanding and thus being healed, and not overhwelmed with guilt or broken by it ,is healing done, is innocence restored.

Its way different than we ever could imagine.

Can we stand in that Light when it comes in? Its a frequency match, and we need to raise ours.

We will instead of feeling bad about ourselves have a full understanding of all cause and effect and psychology and a rejoining of all lessons on all timelines.

reply to post by stereologist


The only "raw nerve" here is you man.

What upsets me is surely not the values you try to impose, it is your onset that makes me tick.
You might have your "crap-o-meter" but my "troll-o-meter" is burning a hole in my pocket!
You have an arrogant attitude, use a quoting and posting technique that works as to "flood" the thread with your posts, you are even so full of yourself that you answer replies to other users than yourself (giving me the suspicion that you hold multiple accounts), you stick to the same board, you keep the same attitude in thread after thread and your whole approach with your avatar and your signature just reeks of troll all the way!
And here I am feeding you. Why?
Maybe because I haven't been nearly as active on ATS as I used to be. Reason for that: increased trolling. I don't care what others say, the climate has gotten worse here lately (come with increased number of members I reckon). This time, I wanted to return here to spread some inspiration and what did I get? Exactly what I could have expected really... However, I feel obliged to take a stand for this thread because I just had it with this ignorance and nonsense! Just because you put someone down doesn't make you bigger than them- they are just as equal. I tried to be diplomatic and makes this atmosphere breathable again but to no avail.

What does fascinate me, however, is the lack of understanding along the concept of objectivity.
Take it like this:
You've just bought your favorite soda. I ask you why you love that particular mix. You say "because it tastes good". You let me have a sip of your soda and I come to the conclusion that it tastes like crap.
Our different perception of the soda comes from our background, culture, needs and expectations. Those be our "lenses" through which we experience reality.
So what did the soda really taste like? Probably nothing at all. It is all in our minds. There is no objective taste, there is no objective reality.
How does this reasoning come on-topic then? Here is why:
quantum physics has taught just what I described above but in some sort of "objective" way; everything is a product of our perception; a proven fact that reveals what I recognize as the divinity of all minds- we are all creators of the universe, we are all part of "God".
This new science comes very timely also, it is a huge part of the convergence. When this stuff is becoming part of what the kids learn in school we will foster new generations with a holistic view of the world. The end of the positivist era for good. Dualism and dichotomies- the "old way" of thinking is obsolete. It is yesterdays news.
I think that is also why our interaction here seems to go nowhere. We attack this subject with totally different onset.

Returning to the previous part of the discussion, I can't help but wonder why you are so obsessed with slandering this topic. Where you afraid at some point, deep down inside, that the world would come to an end? Or maybe someone close to you thought that? Was loss of money involved? If that is the case, it is totally understandable. What is not very constructive, on the other hand, is to overcompensate for that by making "in-your-face" threads, over and over again.

My concept is to bring light and motivation into ATS as good as I can. You seem to have a totally different agenda. All that negativity and hostility might (or probably will) come back to you. What station you tune in to is what signals you will receive. I give that as an advice- one fellow human being to another. Let go of the anger, it will not serve you any good in the long run.

reply to post by Unity_99


If you are alive and "see" it- you have lived to see it

The spirit, detached from time is a very interesting thought. Time is man made. The spirit is of other origins and this not privy to any laws these structures has set up.

Holy, the word derives from "whole". The unity that is the broader truth, defying the simplistic dichotomies that has build us this mental "prison".

Thank you for your post. Keep focusing on your gut-feeling and cast the veil aside, it is the voice of the spirit.

reply to post by Raud

The only "raw nerve" here is you man.

It seems more and more clear that this is an illusion you are living under, i.e. that this experience is nothing other than a personal experience unrelated to 2012.

What upsets me is surely not the values you try to impose, it is your onset that makes me tick.
You might have your "crap-o-meter" but my "troll-o-meter" is burning a hole in my pocket!
You have an arrogant attitude, use a quoting and posting technique that works as to "flood" the thread with your posts, you are even so full of yourself that you answer replies to other users than yourself (giving me the suspicion that you hold multiple accounts), you stick to the same board, you keep the same attitude in thread after thread and your whole approach with your avatar and your signature just reeks of troll all the way!
And here I am feeding you. Why?
Maybe because I haven't been nearly as active on ATS as I used to be. Reason for that: increased trolling. I don't care what others say, the climate has gotten worse here lately (come with increased number of members I reckon). This time, I wanted to return here to spread some inspiration and what did I get? Exactly what I could have expected really... However, I feel obliged to take a stand for this thread because I just had it with this ignorance and nonsense! Just because you put someone down doesn't make you bigger than them- they are just as equal. I tried to be diplomatic and makes this atmosphere breathable again but to no avail.

Pointless off topic commentary.

So what did the soda really taste like? Probably nothing at all. It is all in our minds. There is no objective taste, there is no objective reality.

False. The soda exists. The soda was tasted.

All you've pointed out is the different people have different likes.

quantum physics has taught just what I described above but in some sort of "objective" way; everything is a product of our perception; a proven fact that reveals what I recognize as the divinity of all minds- we are all creators of the universe, we are all part of "God".

Quantum physics does not show that we are creators of the universe. That's the sort of sappy claim made by people like Deepak Chopra. It simply is a false claim that is not science based.

Returning to the previous part of the discussion, I can't help but wonder why you are so obsessed with slandering this topic. Where you afraid at some point, deep down inside, that the world would come to an end? Or maybe someone close to you thought that? Was loss of money involved? If that is the case, it is totally understandable. What is not very constructive, on the other hand, is to overcompensate for that by making "in-your-face" threads, over and over again.

Pointless off topic commentary.

My concept is to bring light and motivation into ATS as good as I can. You seem to have a totally different agenda. All that negativity and hostility might (or probably will) come back to you. What station you tune in to is what signals you will receive. I give that as an advice- one fellow human being to another. Let go of the anger, it will not serve you any good in the long run.

All I am interested in is asking why you think this is real. None of this discussion has anything to do with the claims of 2012. You simply appear to have an experience which happened in 2012. You have backed off off the claim that many others feel the same thing.

The title of thread suggests something happened.

At this point I think it is very clear that this is not a 2012 issue. It is a personal issue. That's ok to have these sorts of experiences. I just think your claim that something is happening that is a 2012 effect that affects many people is just not true.

So what is the point Stereo? Just to discredit anything that Raud says? Honestly everything that this individual has said your calling shananighans~ So what? So Raud created a Forum in the wrong thread? Let's tar and feather him for that~? So you didn't experiance anything, it's safe to presume that anything that isn't science fact is just bologna to you, and I accept that. Leave the forum and let people who want to discuss this discuss without hearing the same responders talk about fake fake fake. Like a chld in a sand pit collecting all his toys because someone doesn't have the same views as you. You sure showed him mate~

It's like going into a AA meeting with a Bottle of Jack and denouncing any form of alcoholism ever existed. Must be fake, all in the head, I've never experianced it, it never existed.

So let the people who want to talk about this, talk about it. You obviously don't have anything but fake to state.

I've checked in on this thread for 3 days now Stereo with the same responses coming out of your keyboard, we got your message, thanks~

reply to post by sulaw

So what is the point Stereo? Just to discredit anything that Raud says? Honestly everything that this individual has said your calling shananighans~ So what?

That's not true is it? I asked a question and you got your shorts in a knot over it.

My question was how does anyone know whether a feeling or experience is real and not imagined?

The response to that has been to avoid the question and to also make a superiority claim. The silly dance and personal attacks have led me to question the claims.

Leave the forum and let people who want to discuss this discuss without hearing the same responders talk about fake fake fake. Like a chld in a sand pit collecting all his toys because someone doesn't have the same views as you. You sure showed him mate~

No, thanks. I'll dismiss your call for censorship.

So I ask you, how can anyone tell if this is real or not?

It seems to me that this is just like many other threads in the 2012 forum. It's just a case of the emperor's new clothes. Pointing out that people are naked is never easy.

reply to post by stereologist


OK, so it is faith. Problem is- my view of what faith is probably isn't the same as yours.

Should we have another go at "how I can tell" I am not the only one?
I see, I listen, I analyse and I conclude. Something is happening in the world, something in the mind of humankind. That is my conclusion from what I already described in the thread at hand.
You don't buy into that and you don't have to. I am surely not making you either, I tried to make that clear also.
You cannot know what I know since you can't be inside my mind. No bigge though. It's all the same anyhow.

Be it 2012 or whatever gregorian year, it is of no real importance. It is an interesting phase that I recognize and you don't. That is however no requisite for "true" or "false".
Calleman- let's just leave him out of it since that was just a sidetrack anyhow.

I don't know what more there is to say really more than to repeat: I have an experience, you don't share it. That doesn't remove the fact that my experiences are really happening in one way or another.

reply to post by Raud

You cannot know what I know since you can't be inside my mind. No bigge though. It's all the same anyhow.

The argument that someone cannot know what is inside someone else's head undermines your claim that others are experiencing the same thing you are.

Be it 2012 or whatever gregorian year, it is of no real importance. It is an interesting phase that I recognize and you don't. That is however no requisite for "true" or "false".
Calleman- let's just leave him out of it since that was just a sidetrack anyhow.

As I suggested this is not about any of the issues of 2012. It's not about the Mayans or any of the other made up stuff that was concocted around the end of a baktun in a calendar that had not been used in 1000 years.

I don't know what more there is to say really more than to repeat: I have an experience, you don't share it. That doesn't remove the fact that my experiences are really happening in one way or another.

I agree that you are having an experience, but it seems to be completely unrelated to 2012 as you stated.

2012 was a time for many hucksters to make all sorts of strange proclamations for which they collected money. It was a huge cash cow. People were sold on the idea that something out would create this "shift in consciousness" that would make everything better. Some claimed that all evil would vanish. Others claimed that super human powers would be bestowed on everyone. Still others said that the new life would be heralded by higher frequencies and a change to the 5th dimension. Others claimed we would be able to alter reality as we choose, Castenada and others before him sold the same baloney. People should simply ask these prophets of nonsense how it is possible to tell it is real. The answer that has to be rejected is the same trite answer given by profiteering frauds, just feel it. Just feel it? That is asking a person to delude themselves. I't tell them sorry, I want an answer - a useful answer.

Originally posted by Raud
reply to post by stereologist

 

OK, so it is faith. Problem is- my view of what faith is probably isn't the same as yours.

I would have to disagree on that, faith is a belief in the unknown force controlling, nothing more nothing less, some call it God some call it Coffee, it's all the same in the end, it's an unknown that you just believe in.

Should we have another go at "how I can tell" I am not the only one?
I see, I listen, I analyse and I conclude. Something is happening in the world, something in the mind of humankind. That is my conclusion from what I already described in the thread at hand.
You don't buy into that and you don't have to. I am surely not making you either, I tried to make that clear also.
You cannot know what I know since you can't be inside my mind. No bigge though. It's all the same anyhow.

So, you are somehow smarter than everyone else in the world, and can somehow tell that something is happening in the minds of everyone else, but you belittle Stereo claiming he can't see into your mind, there's a word for that, it's called hypocrite.

Be it 2012 or whatever gregorian year, it is of no real importance. It is an interesting phase that I recognize and you don't. That is however no requisite for "true" or "false".
Calleman- let's just leave him out of it since that was just a sidetrack anyhow.

Absolutely nothing is really that different now than it was 6 months ago. Except maybe it's colder in the Northern Hemisphere because it's winter but that happens every year.

I don't know what more there is to say really more than to repeat: I have an experience, you don't share it. That doesn't remove the fact that my experiences are really happening in one way or another.

Just because you have an experience, does not mean that something is happening to mankind that is in any way related to ascending, shifting et al., there is no proof you have offered to support your claim, other than "I had an experience and you didn't neener neener I'm so much better than you"

Which goes to the whole heart of the whole 2012 movement. It was a sham, scam and other wise run by hucksters out to gain mass amounts of cash to line their pockets at the expense of the gullible. There was no Nibiru, there was no Ascension, Mankind didn't evolve to another level, no aliens came to meet us, and most of all, nothing changed on the planet itself, we still have a 365 day year, and everyone is still going about their business more or less as they did last year and the year before..

Stereo: Sorry I've been missing, was doing a few debates and getting heated at another discussion going on.

reply to post by stereologist


I did not make nor lose a single dime because of 2012.
I think you paint a picture of me that is totally inaccurate. I don't know any of those "prophets", or whatever to call them, that you refer to (other than, in some extent, Calleman).
I think that stuff is a typical american phenomenon where such scams are big business.

The inside of peoples minds... Well, I guess I just have to take their word for what they say, or maybe read between the lines. Anthropology is a very useful tool as well, just as insight in social constructivist theories. Listen, see, analyze, conclude...

reply to post by vkey08


So, you've also come to play the "quote-n-flood" game?

Sating that the world is "business as usual" is the most classic, the most typical perception that I criticize more than anything else. If that is your key standpoint we have oceans between us when it comes to understanding the present world.

Neener-neener

reply to post by Raud


Since you don't like seeing what you wrote quoted let's try it this way.

1) Prove to me anything is different, without using the following
a) You can't see into my mind therefore you cannot understand
b) I just know it happened, and I know it's happening.

2) Please show verifiable real world evidence that anyone moved planes of existence, that mankind somehow ascended, and/or that we are in the middle of some large change. Again the above constraints apply.

I know that you cannot do that, so in fact, the rational answer is nothing happened, you probably had a dream and that's the extent of it. I, however, CAN (although I'm not inclined to due to the sheer hypocrisy of your actions) show many examples of how on Dec 21st and beyond, nothing happened to mankind and we are still going through the cosmic ballet just as normal..

PS: you're mocking of what I say, just continues to prove that you are a hypocrite..

reply to post by vkey08


What would count as "real world verifiable evidence" when treating a mainly metaphysical issue?

I could give you some things that I treat as parts of major importance of the process:
> Shift from unipolar to multipolar (in)balance of power in the world
> The approaching end of capitalist market economy as we know it
> Women's rights movements take major steps towards equality
> The advance of quantum science, giving us a whole new perspective of how reality is constructed
> Major movements of civil rights, globally
> Awareness of the fragility of our earthly existence and the emerging holistic view of the planet as one organism
> Decline of a dualistic world-view, challenges for our most deeply rooted core values and the rising of new alternatives in creating social structures globally
> The technological advance (in communication particularly) that make the above gain massive speed
> Climate change that affects nearly all aspects of human life (and all other life as well for that instance)

Those are the things I can think about straight off. Give me some time and I can surely bring up more (as if it was ever needed).

I never stated that anybody needed to be inside my mind to understand this. You can only do that with your own mind. I think I already wrote that earlier. And I certainly would not call myself better than anyone else since we all originate from the same source and carry with us the same capacities for understanding.

I feel that the whole 21st/12 2012-part of all this has gotten too much attention. That was not my initial intention. This forum carries that name, of course (together with the classic and misleading icon of a meteorite crashing into planet earth) but to me it is a much wider concept that just some date. 2012 happened to be occurring during this convergence, just as 2013. The process itself has never actually ever "begun" or won't ever "end", but I believe some of the phases to be more intense than others. If we could look beyond the popularized picture of 2012 we might sooner reach a greater understanding.

Being a hypocrite inclines that someone has the intent of hypocrisy. I have no such intent.
Having the both of you nagging in the same tone will not increase your chances of changing my mind (or whatever it is you're after). Neener-neener.