The 2012 shift that DID and DO happen

These sorts of ideas are really not that new. In the late 1700s a man named Mesmer suggested that there was some sort of energy flowing through all living things. It was called animal magnetism. If it was blocked it led to disease. Mesmer organized healings in which specially prepared waters and magnets were used.

The question of course was whether or not these events did heal. The King of France organized a panel that included Lavoisier and Benjamin Franklin to evaluate the results. They ran a test against this health fad. The tests showed that it did not work and was only supported by the wishful thinking of the participants.

True believers kept on with the practices that were easily shown to be false. The not so sure and curious turned away once they realized that this did not work.

The same is here I believe. 2012 believers will construct a set of ideas that support 2012 while the rest of the world marches forward. I asked if there was a way to test if this was real and there were no responses. It is because people do not want to know? Is it because there is a recognition that the beliefs are so vague that they cannot be tested?

Blossoming into adulthood has been happening for trillions of humans for many many generations.

Nothing to do with any celestial ongoings or calendar anomolies or the like.

Just a matter of you figuring out what is just and right. Be proud of yourself. Don't delude it with false solar influence. Your mind and critical thinking lead you to these truths. Perhaps your mind can now let go of silly notions of 2012 next.

Best of luck.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by stereologist


When I am saying that humans are evolving faster, I can only speak for myself. All I have to say about it is biased, but my experience in changing myself from within is that it is happening at a greater and greater rate, and that which I am evolving into is frankly beyond my wildest imaginations. I could go on with some anecdotes, but it wouldn't matter anyway.

And, I am not the only one doing this. In my understanding, more and more people are doing it and that will just open up the way for even more people to do it. Age has little to nothing to do with it, neither does the fact that esoteric, occult and mystic school wisdom (all of which revolves around unlocking the secrets within) has been around for thousands of years (and indeed in the 60s, 70s, or 80s, or 90s, or 00s)

Change within did not start in 2012, it is not a new phenomena. All I am saying is that I truly believe it is happening faster and faster and that we will witness truly amazing times as earth and it's individual cells come together to create order, harmony and symbiosis!

reply to post by OleMB


I am asking what I think is a simple question: How can anyone tell this is real?

You really haven't stated anything other than something is happening. It is taking off faster and faster.

You also claim it is happening to many people.

It sounds rather wishy washy to me. These are the sorts of situation in which people sometimes think they are talking about the same thing and yet they are not. I assume the vague statements and I won't bore you with concrete examples is simply window dressing to cover up the undefined nature of all of this.

The 2012 forum is full of these sorts of claims. Posts about "hang on we're in for a bumpy ride" or "the energies vibrating into me" and sorts of similar claims are common.

How can someone know this is real?

You stated in the OP

The 2012 shift is by all means real, it is all whether you are interested in seeing it or not. It is of course an ontological issue, but I'd like to think that it is indeed really taking place (in an objective way).

How do you know it is real and not imagined or wished for or a self delusion?

Great post OP, I agree in most regards.

As for human evolution speeding up, you betcha, and thats exactly what alot of this new awareness is. Evolution is simply adaptation to one's environment over time. It doesn't have to explain the origin of everything, it is simply a process. Our environment has changed drastically in the last 20 years. 20 years ago there was the beginning of dial up, AOL internet.

Today.. we are surrounded by fast paced access to the data bank of a technological collective consciousness. I'd dare say humans have evolved/adapted moreso in the age of the internet than we did during the entire duration of the industrial revolution. Were lazier but were smarter which.. shouldn't be a big deal by the time deep space exploration begins (sooner than you think).

What I believe is that there is a time, that is now, not a date, precisely pinpointed, but a season, when the Light is coming in, bigger the sun. We're getting it now in lesser dosages to prepare us for a realm shift. I hope this inner knowing will take place in my lifetime.

reply to post by stereologist


No you did not ask me that. How can I know it is real? Well of course I cannot know. You should try not to rely on someone telling you something is real, or else you will have others tell you what is the truth. Is an atom real? Well, somebody told you it was. Have you seen one? Have you seen the spin? Does it spin? Are there a hundred million stars (or the like) in our galaxy? Well, somebody sure told you that was the case. Have you counted them? Have you seen through one of the telescopes NASA use? Do you trust the ones saying it is the case merely because they are many?

When someone else state something and you find it fitting to the reality you find yourself comfortable in, that does not mean that you have gained a truth. Somebody else did and they found the truth for themselves, then they told you and you believe it to be true (I am not saying anything about what you believe or not).

You can zig-zag your way out of this with semantics, taking me for writing the OP and so on but this is the only truth anyone can deliver to you (beyond any doubt); you are. Is that real enough?

Try yourself, tell me something that is real.

reply to post by stereologist


I see that you are full of doubt but between the lines I read that you want to understand also. Therefore I respect all your questions (which are asked in a very polite and straightforward manner).

I'd don't really know where to begin but the examples you put forward about the fall of monarchies and the Lutheran church, you make them sound like things that happen all the time. Those where pretty massive shifts in the history of the world. Still, the shift we are going through now has similarities with the two mentioned; it is about questioning core values that we've carried with us through the centuries.
Add to this the truly unique situations that humankind is facing today: dramatic climate change, information technology revolution, population increase, resource scarcity, volatile political climate on a global scale where US hegemony is losing ground... Add to this the "common" occurrences like looming market crashes and debt crises, new empires expanding their influence and gearing up for war...
These are times whether you like it or not.

Taken together, people are starting to wonder why we submit to the same patterns all the time.
Women's rights movements are larger than ever, even though there is some way to go before the gender structures are truly equal. The OWS-movement might have been a bit confused but it managed to tie millions of people together with one common notion: the situation feels wrong.
I bet if you where living in the mideast, in one of the countries where uprising has taken place on a grand scale, you would't doubt for one second that something is going on, something else that "usual"...

The Mayans did not speak of an absolute end date, that is true. What they did speak of however was the return of their God who represents the dualism come together as one.
This is extremely important to understand- the width of such an unity.

You want me to prove that this is "really" happening and not just in my/our imagination?
Of course that is impossible to do since practically everything happens inside our minds. Just taking that into consideration is a major part of understanding the divine connection- that "God" is in all of us.
I really don't want to speak too much about this since it is so extremely important for people to formulate such ideas on their own and not just copy-paste what someone said on a forum somewhere
I did write that it is an ontological issue but since it is we can argue in eternity over what exists and what doesn't. Maybe all of this is just happening inside you mind? Does this discussion even exist like they way you think it does or is it just your interpretation of it that exists?
I jest

reply to post by spinalremain

My friend,
I do understand what you mean but it is different (and I am mature enough to make that evaluation).
Had all people gone through the same insights throughout history, life on this planet would have been veeery different
It suffices to discuss certain topics with the older generations and seeing that they don't have a clue. For them, it is business as usual... Core values are just as hard as that.
Too bad their institutions are so frozen solid that only massive force can bring them down...


Let me finish this post with an amazing quote from the thread:

Originally posted by OleMB
If you deny the changes in yourself, you will hardly have the clarity to see the changes going around in other people, and you will probably not quite understand it.

reply to post by OleMB

No you did not ask me that. How can I know it is real? Well of course I cannot know. You should try not to rely on someone telling you something is real, or else you will have others tell you what is the truth. Is an atom real? Well, somebody told you it was. Have you seen one? Have you seen the spin? Does it spin? Are there a hundred million stars (or the like) in our galaxy? Well, somebody sure told you that was the case. Have you counted them? Have you seen through one of the telescopes NASA use? Do you trust the ones saying it is the case merely because they are many?

It is not possible for any of to repeat many experiments. Instead I can see the reasoning behind those claims. Have I seen an atom? No, but I have witnessed ATF microscopes mapping nanoscale structures. Is an atom real? Yes, and the reasoning is that I have done experiments showing many of the properties of atoms. I own a telescope and use it to view the heavens. Have I don numerical estimation of stars myself? No, but the reasoning for the number of stars is backed up by evidence which I have access to. BTW, no one counts the stars. The numbers are based on estimates. I have seen the images produced by NASA. No one actually looks through the telescopes today. The issue is not a matter of blind acceptance. It appears that you are asking me to blindly accept you. That is why I have asked people in this thread that make claims how to tell if the claims are real or not.

When someone else state something and you find it fitting to the reality you find yourself comfortable in, that does not mean that you have gained a truth. Somebody else did and they found the truth for themselves, then they told you and you believe it to be true (I am not saying anything about what you believe or not).

This is wrong. I don't accept things just because they are comfortable claims. I ask questions especially of things that seem comfortable to avoid making mistakes, to reinforce a mistake.

You can zig-zag your way out of this with semantics, taking me for writing the OP and so on but this is the only truth anyone can deliver to you (beyond any doubt); you are. Is that real enough?

Not at all. You have stated nothing whatsoever that is tangible.

Try yourself, tell me something that is real.

The Sun.

Originally posted by stereologist
The issue is not a matter of blind acceptance. It appears that you are asking me to blindly accept you. That is why I have asked people in this thread that make claims how to tell if the claims are real or not.

May I jump in here and ask what requisites you need for something to be "real"?
Just so that I can understand where you'e coming from and going at

Originally posted by Raud

Originally posted by stereologist
The issue is not a matter of blind acceptance. It appears that you are asking me to blindly accept you. That is why I have asked people in this thread that make claims how to tell if the claims are real or not.

May I jump in here and ask what requisites you need for something to be "real"?
Just so that I can understand where you'e coming from and going at

edit on 5-2-2013 by Raud because: html error

I honestly think he's looking for Tangible/100% verified/100% non-debunkable/Error Proof evidence....

Even Scientists get it wrong~ But in a thread about Prophecies and Meta-Physics going off that type of information alone will lead you to the statements he's been posing. Not that anyone is wrong or write for that matter it's a matter of perception. So when talking Meta-Physics and a higher existance is it probable to only state facts? When more Meta-Physics require an open mind and perception that can perceive through the smoke and mirrors? Even the Veil if you will?

Your concious mind is your compass and your heart leads the way.

You would deny any and all stories of the ascended masters and how they obtained spritual enlightenment?

But we have proof of Buddha and Mohammad and Jesus if not only on Paper. But with the logic stated before, that alone is not evidence enough.

Is it not enough to know we cannot copy anything our Ancients created? Is it foolish to yern for the knowledge of our ancestors because we feel even with our current technological advancements we still look inferior?

I say Raud, Thank you for the Thread and I hope that helped.

I'm glad I took the red-pill.

reply to post by sulaw


What an amazing post!

Made me think of the old classic "Dark City":
"You're not gonna find it in here [points at his forehead]... You've been looking in the wrong place"

reply to post by Raud

These are times whether you like it or not.

I chose obvious examples of great change. I could also select the pre-WWI era in which we have a US about to become a world power, the information technology revolution of the Hollerith card, a political climate that was ready to explode across the globe, transport about to be revolutionized by planes and cars, the end of the horse era, the domination of all parts of the globe by man and the final exploration of the polar regions beginning.

The Mayans did not speak of an absolute end date, that is true. What they did speak of however was the return of their God who represents the dualism come together as one.
This is extremely important to understand- the width of such an unity.

Is this a reference to Bolon Yokte’ K’uh? The modern interpretation of the stela suggests that the stela calls for a ritual that is the adornment of a statue. That is the only reference to something associated with the baktun.

You want me to prove that this is "really" happening and not just in my/our imagination?
Of course that is impossible to do since practically everything happens inside our minds. Just taking that into consideration is a major part of understanding the divine connection- that "God" is in all of us.
I really don't want to speak too much about this since it is so extremely important for people to formulate such ideas on their own and not just copy-paste what someone said on a forum somewhere

This sounds to me more like faith and not what is real. If there was some objective evidence then it would be detectable outside of me or you.

I jest

I realized you did about that last part.

I'm not sure I see anything other than what was written in other threads where vague and undefined issues were being praised. In many ways this reminds me of a team building exercise in a company where a speaker shows up and riles up the staff. They get crazed and happy and ready to move forward and accomplish the impossible. But ask anyone what the person said and they can't tell you moments later because the oratory was actually shallow and without substance.

The main difference between now and times past is simply that we receive the news a little quicker. Due to that shortening of time between the event and the reporting the news we get is often in error. How many dead? how many gunmen? How much money was stolen? Where was the explosion? How many people are without power? Was a coup successful? Did a plane crash? Who resigned? Of course, the quick turn around time is hardest in times of disaster. Slower reporting can be done for issues such as economic reports or company announced layoffs. These are planned issues.

Other than speed we have seen centuries of government overthrows, turmoil, natural disasters, new inventions, improved standards of living, and so forth. Life continues to change and now is no different than before.

reply to post by Raud

If you deny the changes in yourself, you will hardly have the clarity to see the changes going around in other people, and you will probably not quite understand it.

It comes across as a bit of superiority claim in which the person suggests that others are being close minded. I also call into the question that not noticing personal change prevents a person from seeing change in others. A person might think of themselves as young and notice that their friends are getting older. A person might think of themselves as liberal and think that their friends are becoming more conservative.

All I have been asking is how do we know that changes are real and not some construct of the mind. If this is real and if it affects many people then it should be possible to point out evidence. I feel that some rather flimsy excuses have been used to avoid making substantive statements.

Is this real or imagined? So far nothing has been stated that suggests it is real.

reply to post by sulaw

I honestly think he's looking for Tangible/100% verified/100% non-debunkable/Error Proof evidence....

That would be asking for facts or proof. I asked for a means of determining that this was real.

This thread is in the 2012 forum, not the gray zone or some other forum where more vague threads are placed.

If these ideas are based on things that are more faith based than not, then of course the evidence is not there and the idea is only real in the mind of the believer. That's okay. Some things are like that.

Is this real or just based on faith?

reply to post by stereologist


I just want to point out that you are blatently de-railing a thread that was created under Meta-Physics and Prophecy Forum.

Additionally, if you haven't gotten in touch with your own inner-child/higher self would I ever expect someone who only looks at tangible evidence to understand where Raud was coming from when he orignally created this thread.

Bringing guns and WW1 into this thread was just outlandish and way off topic. Nor could I hold you to any credibility to sticking to topic that is obviously taboo and not in your realm of understanding.

This is my perception of bringing Guns to a Meta-Physic Debate/Thread

Faith. I would rather have blind faith and believe in the Divine then to walk these lonely streets with 0 faith and 0 beliefs in any type of Higher Power.

reply to post by sulaw


Dag nabbit.... Well the 2012 forum might as well be Meta-Physics and Prophecy. My appologies.

reply to post by stereologist


Are you running for Mr. Agnostic '13?

Teambuilding rally you say? Interesting reference. Makes obvious that we originate from very different context you and I.
My intention with this thread was solely to share my continued conviction despite what became of the whole "2012-hype".
Mayans or no Mayans, the process keeps going on with them having put it into their "science" or not. I tried to make that clear in the OP but again it was hijacked. I just find their interpretation of it very compelling but the process itself is what matters most.

If you really won't see the world of today as any different from the 20's or 70's I see no real point in discussing further with you, no offense mind you Personally, I make a great deal about the difference between the telegraph and the internet.
Also, you seem to view "faith" as something malign. If that is the grounds you stand, I'll let you keep doing that. I have no stake in taking it from you.

Keep questioning everything, by all means do. But don't forget to also look for answers.

Peace out.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by sulaw

 

I honestly think he's looking for Tangible/100% verified/100% non-debunkable/Error Proof evidence....

That would be asking for facts or proof. I asked for a means of determining that this was real.

This thread is in the 2012 forum, not the gray zone or some other forum where more vague threads are placed.

If these ideas are based on things that are more faith based than not, then of course the evidence is not there and the idea is only real in the mind of the believer. That's okay. Some things are like that.

Is this real or just based on faith?

Ok now were talking ^_^

Right so the fact is that Raud is having an experiance. Can you discredit where and what's happening with him because everything is happening internally? I'd say that's pretty shady of any person or individual to do that.

I know more people like Raud who are having these types of experiances more than people who are not. Is this not proof enough? Can you say that since 2012 happened you haven't experianced "Lost Time" "Prophetic Thoughts" "Time has speed up" the list goes on.

So to people like Raud I commend for saying something, makes people like me who are empathetic and actually can feel and see other peoples energies smile.

I would lend you my eyes for proof but then how would I see this game of the physical we are all playing.

reply to post by Raud


My original question was along the lines of how you can tell this is real.

Would it be easier to describe how I could see that this is real.

So how would you describe what is real. Maybe it is real to you, but you (or maybe it was another person in the thread) also claimed others are experiencing the same thing. How do we know this is a shared experience due to the same or related cause?