NASA knew Columbia crew could die but chose not to tell them

reply to post by Tardacus


What kind of decision is die or die? None its die either way.

reply to post by ezwip


No, the details of what happened are the same as they were in the original report. That hasn't changed one bit. This claims that NASA knew they were going to die on reentry, and didn't bother to tell them, which wasn't quite true.

Part of the problem is that a lot of people have this Hollywood vision of spaceflight that makes it look overly simplistic. It really is incredibly complex, in the physics and hardware. Its really threading the needle to get several tons of spacecraft into orbit with a crew, pretty miraculous in itself. It takes years of planning to do a mission. So to think they could launch a rescue mission in a span of days is probably unrealistic. What should have happened with the shuttle program, is that they should have had a rescue contingency for each mission that was planned along with the actual mission, ie a rescue vehicle on standby the duration of the mission.I think the Russians do this now.Most likely it wasn't due to the cost. Probably the cost would have been prohibitive of such a thing, as budgeting missions is also threading a needle. We should really take a sabbatical on manned flight and fly robotic missions until the safety factor goes up.

reply to post by Merinda


AFTER Columbia for certain missions they had to have a shuttle ready to go as backup. The Hubble servicing mission was one of those. If they could get to the ISS they didn't have the backup on the pad. If they weren't going to the ISS, they did have it ready. As for the Co2 scrubbers, yes they used them, but they carried their own oxygen supply, and it was limited. The ISS uses a different system because it's in orbit more or less permanently. Craft that are only up for a short period of time carry their own supplies.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


LIKE.LIKE.LIKE

NASA are an evil organization funded by shadowy special interest groups and have a track record of being pathological liars, trust nothing they say.

If I knew there was a high chance of me dying I would want to talk to my family for a few minutes. NASA denied this to the crew, and that is why what they did was morally vile.
Anyone thinks NASA was right, obviously doesn't think much of their family-friends. It's not like these people weren't adults. It's authoritarianism whenever people buy into it being right, to treat functional adults like children.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


Would you mind sharing how, in your opinion?

reply to post by Liberal1984


Exactly I am sure the astronauts could of handled it and not of broken down into an emotional mess. They knew the potential risk's when joining, that space can be a very unforgiving hostile environment.

Nasa denied them the chance to say their last goodbyes to their families which is despicable.

reply to post by SlightlyAbovePar


Two words: "operation paperclip".

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by TsukiLunar

 

In the blog post on which this is centered, Hale says this:

After one of the MMTs when possible damage to the orbiter was discussed, he gave me his opinion: “You know, there is nothing we can do about damage to the TPS. If it has been damaged it’s probably better not to know. I think the crew would rather not know. Don’t you think it would be better for them to have a happy successful flight and die unexpectedly during entry than to stay on orbit, knowing that there was nothing to be done, until the air ran out?”

I was hard pressed to disagree. That mindset was widespread. Astronauts agreed.

He then goes on to say that the real problem is in deciding that there is nothing to be done.

After the accident, when we were reconstituting the Mission Management Team, my words to them were “We are never ever going to say that there is nothing we can do.” That is hindsight.

waynehale.wordpress.com...

edit on 2/1/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

just bumping so y'all can see this thread is a massive dose of fail

"astronauts agreed"

/end thread

If true? Its a hard decision to make. And thinking about it makes me sick.. But if the crew knew what was comming , they had a chance to say farewell to their families. Because they know the consequences and dangers of being astronauts. And I would like to think that they would handled this, very brave, And I think they would!

Originally posted by TrueAmerican


:shk:

Boggles the fricken mind, if this is true.

When it became clear that the orbiter was seriously damaged and likely wouldn’t survive re-entry, Flight Director Jon Harpold said to Hale and others at the meeting, “You know, there is nothing we can do about damage to the TPS (Thermal Protection System). If it has been damaged it’s probably better not to know. I think the crew would rather not know. Don’t you think it would be better for them to have a happy successful flight and die unexpectedly during entry than to stay on orbit, knowing that there was nothing to be done, until the air ran out?”

My God. I mean you figure that something else might have been attempted, like a rescue of some sorts?

And I think this speaks highly of theories that NASA WOULD NOT TELL US, if there were indeed a deadly asteroid inbound, and instead would choose to let those die in ignorance of their upcoming fate.

Keep playing God, NASA. :shk:
THE PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW. After all, it is with our tax dollars that you function at all. Fricken jerks!

www.rawstory.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I don't think there was any reasonable chance of any possibility of a rescue. Unless they had the capability of turning around and flying off to the ISS. If that was possible and they didn't do it, I can't even imagine why they wouldn't. I don't think it was an option, however.

That said, they should have told the crew. They had a right to know theybwere facing their probable last moments. Although, weren't they aware of the damage? If so, they probably knew they were doomed already. Astronauts are smart cookies.

A NASA flight director has revealed that personnel on the ground knew in 2003 that the Space Shuttle Columbia would not likely survive re-entry, but chose not to inform the vessel’s crew.

Just as well in didn't even survive entry, then...

Originally posted by syrinx high priest

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by TsukiLunar

 

In the blog post on which this is centered, Hale says this:

After one of the MMTs when possible damage to the orbiter was discussed, he gave me his opinion: “You know, there is nothing we can do about damage to the TPS. If it has been damaged it’s probably better not to know. I think the crew would rather not know. Don’t you think it would be better for them to have a happy successful flight and die unexpectedly during entry than to stay on orbit, knowing that there was nothing to be done, until the air ran out?”

I was hard pressed to disagree. That mindset was widespread. Astronauts agreed.

He then goes on to say that the real problem is in deciding that there is nothing to be done.

After the accident, when we were reconstituting the Mission Management Team, my words to them were “We are never ever going to say that there is nothing we can do.” That is hindsight.

waynehale.wordpress.com...

edit on 2/1/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

just bumping so y'all can see this thread is a massive dose of fail

"astronauts agreed"

/end thread

Um...huh? Bold proclamation saying the thread is a massive dose of fail, and then declaring "end thread" based on some apparent pearl of wisdom you dropped on us...especially considering, I doubt anyone, including myself, knows what point you were making with this.

Are you saying because there were astronauts who agreed with that opinion, that the right thing to do was to withold such information from the crew, and there is no point in having a different opinion on the matter? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, that really is the best explanation I can come up with for what the "end all, be all" point you were trying to make might be. Personally, I think if one is going to make bold statements, indicating one holds the final word and all others' ideas are worthless, well, at least say something of substance, so *somebody* out there might agree with you.

reply to post by dogstar23


The astronauts on board the shuttle agreed.

Nothing was withheld from them, they knew the risks.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


at the time of the accident it was said that columbia either didnt have enough fuel or was incapable of flying to iss in case of emergency i still think its stupid to send up a shuttle with out a back up for rescue purposes

One of my relatively few ATS posts..although I read part of the forum a few times per week.

If this story didn't come from the Columbia astronauts themselves, (which is highly unlikely) it probably isn't true, or at the very lest, "exaggerated". Why? Because it's the anniversary week of Columbia's crash to earth. IMO, TRUE news doesn't arrive so conveniently timed.

-cwm

Originally posted by Liberal1984
If I knew there was a high chance of me dying I would want to talk to my family for a few minutes. NASA denied this to the crew, and that is why what they did was morally vile.
Anyone thinks NASA was right, obviously doesn't think much of their family-friends. It's not like these people weren't adults. It's authoritarianism whenever people buy into it being right, to treat functional adults like children.

If those were my family members in the shuttle I wouldn't want them to know.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please tell me you are joking!!! You believe ANYTHIG the MSM tells you? They are liars of the worst kind!! OMFG what has this world become? Ignorance truly is bliss, I wish to be ignorant of this whole freakin website!!!!