NASA knew Columbia crew could die but chose not to tell them

NASA knew Columbia crew could die but chose not to tell them

www.rawstory.com

A NASA flight director has revealed that personnel on the ground knew in 2003 that the Space Shuttle Columbia would not likely survive re-entry, but chose not to inform the vessel’s crew. According to an ABC News report from Thursday, when faced with the choice of letting the astronauts die trying to come home or leaving them to orbit until their air ran out, high-ranking NASA officials chose to let the Columbia crew die in ignorance of what was to befall them.

(visit the link for the full news article)


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:shk:

Boggles the fricken mind, if this is true.

When it became clear that the orbiter was seriously damaged and likely wouldn’t survive re-entry, Flight Director Jon Harpold said to Hale and others at the meeting, “You know, there is nothing we can do about damage to the TPS (Thermal Protection System). If it has been damaged it’s probably better not to know. I think the crew would rather not know. Don’t you think it would be better for them to have a happy successful flight and die unexpectedly during entry than to stay on orbit, knowing that there was nothing to be done, until the air ran out?”

My God. I mean you figure that something else might have been attempted, like a rescue of some sorts?

And I think this speaks highly of theories that NASA WOULD NOT TELL US, if there were indeed a deadly asteroid inbound, and instead would choose to let those die in ignorance of their upcoming fate.

Keep playing God, NASA. :shk:
THE PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW. After all, it is with our tax dollars that you function at all. Fricken jerks!

www.rawstory.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

According to an ABC News report from Thursday, when faced with the choice of letting the astronauts die trying to come home or leaving them to orbit until their air ran out, high-ranking NASA officials chose to let the Columbia crew die in ignorance of what was to befall them. Raw Story (s.tt...)

I'd rather not know I had a high chance of being incinerated. Wouldn't you?

“You know, there is nothing we can do about damage to the TPS (Thermal Protection System). If it has been damaged it’s probably better not to know. I think the crew would rather not know. Don’t you think it would be better for them to have a happy successful flight and die unexpectedly during entry than to stay on orbit, knowing that there was nothing to be done, until the air ran out?” Raw Story (s.tt...)

Yep.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


From what I understand about it. There was a question in mission control about irreparable damage and the possibility of lost life but it was mostly speculative and there was no definitive conclusion as to what they would do if they found that to be the case.

From what was said though, they did not find the damage that caused the destruction to the ship upon inspecting and did believe it could land safely. The fact that this was discussed is unfortunate, because there is little doubt that the discussion took place but I personally don't believe they knew that shuttle would not make it.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Would you rather them have died terrified and desperate, or successful and happy? In my humble opinion, you never set foot on that shuttle. You don't know what it would have been like. With that in mind, that man who made the decision to not tell them is closer to that kind of choice than you'll ever be in your entire life. I think he knows what he was doing. He decided the last thoughts in their heads should not be fear and regret.

It's not your place to tell him he was wrong for that, because he had to watch his friends and comrades die in that shuttle. You're just a stranger. No one likes to watch it happen, but he was personally involved. And now you think you could have won the war faster with less men. I doubt it.

They should have informed the crew and let the crew decide what they wanted to do.
They should have told the crew that the thermal protection might be damaged and then give them the two choices, try to re-enter and possibly die or stay out there and die,let the crew decide their own fate.

Not sure where your head is on this one.

There was no other option. Either you give them zero hope, and leave them to die for sure, else take the risk of saving their lives. It didn't increase their chance of survival to inform them. It would only potentially make the re-entry less successful due to increased stress of the knowledge that they have little chance to survive!

It seems you are just wanting something to bitch at, man. Hate to put it so bluntly, but this was the most moral thing to do.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I remember reading about this, and it would have taken too long to prep another shuttle for a rescue mission. Their O2 would have run out anyway. I don't think the ISS could have supported that large a crew for the time it would have taken them, either.

Although now that I am typing this, they might have been able to dock at the ISS and live in the shuttle, until a rescue shuttle could get there with replenishment for the ISS since they'd be severely depleted.

I wasn't there, though so what do I know.

Originally posted by Tardacus
They should have informed the crew and let the crew decide what they wanted to do.

Suffocate or Incinerate...Choose one?

That'd be awful.

reply to post by Tardacus


"Hey, it turns out that we made a few miscalculations while designing the hardware for your space-faring vessel. As a result, you'll have to choose between asphyxiation or incineration because there's not enough time to devise a rescue mission."

Kinda sounds like Saw 8, to be honest.

Originally posted by Helious
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

From what I understand about it. There was a question in mission control about irreparable damage and the possibility of lost life but it was mostly speculative and there was no definitive conclusion as to what they would do if they found that to be the case.

From what was said though, they did not find the damage that caused the destruction to the ship upon inspecting and did believe it could land safely. The fact that this was discussed is unfortunate, because there is little doubt that the discussion took place but I personally don't believe they knew that shuttle would not make it.

If I recall correctly, there were a couple holdouts who thought it was too much of a risk but they were overruled.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Could they not somehow get them extra air shipped up until they could figure something out? Even if they were moving them into on of those little re entry capsules and dropping them in the ocean?

The same thing basically happened with the Challenger explosion. Some engineers from MT, the company manufacturing the boosters, pressed management really hard to inform Nasa, which they finally did. Nasa chose to go ahead with the launch even though they knew there was a problem with the O-rings on the boosters, which is what caused the disaster, since the O-rings could not expand due to the cold temperatures.

So this does not surprise me all that much personally, although it is still not right. Informing the crew about something that is inevitable is not necessary imo, but if there is a chance to save them, or avoid disaster, any available measures should be taken, and then the crew should be informed. If however there was absolutely nothing anyone could do, then I can understand not informing the crew. I think Nasa has a history of doing exactly what I just described on various missions that ran into problems, or have at least done so on a couple of past occasions.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
My God. I mean you figure that something else might have been attempted, like a rescue of some sorts?

How? The only thing that could have brought them home was a shuttle, and there wasn't another shuttle even close to being ready to launch. By the time they could have gotten to them, they would have been dead from lack of oxygen. The ISS wasn't really a choice because then they would have been risking the ISS crew as well, because it wasn't designed to hold that many people, even with the extra O2 from the shuttle. And if they used the escape craft from the ISS to bring some of the shuttle crew home, what does the ISS have anymore if they needed it?

Personally, I wouldn't want to know. Let me die thinking everything was ok, and I had just had a successful mission in orbit, and go out on a good note, instead of being terrified the entire way down.

reply to post by unityemissions


I have to think that they could have prepped something, I don't care if it was a rocket with a pay load of scuba gear, something. When you consider that we have apparently gone to the moon, and you look at apollo 13, I just can't see them doing nothing.

Why proceed with the launch when they knew there was a problem first off?

Why openly admit to the whole world that you kill these people not give a damn about them?

I pray that there will be some sort of hearing for this and those should be held accountability for murder!

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Can't believe Oberg didn't jump right in to defend!!

What a bunch of jerks to not let our astronauts know about this prior to this venture!

Makes you want to puke knowing that these highly trained astronauts that NASA has dumped tons of (our) money into them, would be willing to let them die for this, but people still think the government who doesn't spend any money on us actually care if we live??

Things that make you

reply to post by Zaphod58


No other country could have something ready in enough time? Seems to me it's lack of planning they should have a rescue option staged and at the ready any time someone is in space.

the ONLY reason they didnt leave them in space to die is because they would rather take the chance of them landing and the ship being destroyed then to leave the space ship up there for someone else to salvage and find out any info from our space ship...

I will also say that any astronaut should know right off the bat you have a pretty high chance of dying just in general I mean you are in a space ship flying at thousands of miles per hour towards the earth and its not like we have perfected space travel so if you plan to get in the space ship you better have said your prayers because there is a decent chance you wont be coming back.

Oh and the reason they did not do a rescue mission to save them is because nasa budget is more important then the lives of a few people. After all they are expendable, thats what they signed up for.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Unless there was something almost ready to launch, or ready to launch there was no way to get to them. And if it was ready to launch, it probably already had a payload loaded, so would have to be taken back, changed out for a capsule, and moved back and launched. So again, you're looking at time. Anything for time.