Fellow "christians", why do you think it is better to kill people than be gay?

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by stupid girl

 

Dear stupid girl,

Sorry you feel I was misleading. I will attempt to explain myself. I have gay parishioners who have been told their whole lives that they deserve to die.

As a minister, then I'm sure you understand the context of when I say that we all deserve to die. We are all sinners and the payment of sin is death, regardless of what we've done wrong.

I hope you understand that.

No, I'm sorry, I do not understand that. No one should tell another person that they "deserve to die". That is a judgment matter of the heart and not for us to decide.
When Jesus was confronted with this same spirit, He told them whomever was without sin to cast the first stone. The sinner in question was an adulterous woman of whom it is implied that she was sorely repentant and asking for forgiveness and mercy. It is understood that she was truly remorseful for what she had done and because of such, Jesus, who could see her heart, judged her in mercy, thus saying, "I do not condemn you, go and sin no more."
That is not to say that she never sinned again, but to show that we are forgiven in mercy with the encouragement to learn from our wrongdoings rather than wallow in repetition of them.
One of the implications of adultery being a sin punishable by death of stoning at the hands of men, was to 1) lead people away from the temptation with the seriousness of the repercussion; and 2) remove from themselves those that commit such crimes.
Although we are still not to habitually or daily consort with those who indulge in sinful activity, Jesus commanded us to forgive and have compassion, not stone.

And then, I have the ten commandments. I told them that they did not make the top ten, that is the issue. I do hope it clarifies it.

I personally see that as an injustice to those you are trying to comfort. The Bible is clear on its view of homosexual activity. If you are a person of the Christian faith, then the Bible is the foundation of that faith. Sin is sin, there is no grading scale. A Christian who murders is just as guilty of wrongdoing as a Christian who lies.
However, like I stated before, there are a myriad of actions that could be considered as breaking the first Two Commandments. Those of the Christian faith are to always put God and His ways before their own or any others.
I am not wont to discuss certain intimate matters of the heart on ATS, and homosexuality is one of them. It is an emotionally volatile subject for most, as the conflict of spirit involved is palpably divisive.
I personally have a few very close emotional relationships with those whom consider themselves homosexual. I love them unconditionally and I always will. They do not allow the tenets of my faith to project personal condemnation from me and my relationship with them is not defined by whom they choose to be their sexual partner. Our relationship is based on mutual respect and I don't presume to know their personal relationship with God, nor do they presume assumptions regarding mine.

I seem recall that they came for Jesus and Peter cut a man's ear off and Jesus healed it. Jesus did not defend his own self. Please correct me on these points.

Yes, at the time of Jesus' arrest after a night of prayer in the garden on the eve of His death, Peter drew a sword to defend Him and cut off Malchus' ear. However, when Jesus told Peter to stand down and sheath his sword, He also said, "Shall I not drink from the cup of suffering the Father has given me?"

Jesus was telling Peter that it was not time to fight, because it was time for Him to die. Jesus could have easily defended Himself, much less the no-telling-how-many entities that were watching all this play out in the spirit world that could have brought down the hammer on those who came to arrest Jesus.
Jesus had been forced to flee scenes of conflict before, but the time of His arrest was the fulfillment of His ministry.

The first time I responded to you I said you were far from stupid and I still believe that, why do you assume I am stupid? Peace.

I do not think you are stupid, and I apologize for anything I've done for you to construe such a notion.


And peace also unto you.

Being gay is completely natural, there is no "choice" someone makes to be gay. I find it hard to believe that god would send someone to hell because of the way he made them.

Animals even show documented signs of homosexuality. Did they "choose" to be gay as well?

Homosexual behavior in animals

Being gay is no worse of a crime than liking a certain type of food, it's ridiculous to think otherwise. Would you condemn somebody to hell for liking spaghetti all because you don't?

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Homosexual urges, or pediphilism is the reason for celebacy,

No. The scripture quote that I gave is the reason for celebacy in the church. The bible says that it's better to be unmarried in the service of the Lord so that your attention isn't split between the work of the Lord and the things of the earth. You can devote more time to Gods work.

If said and true regarding the married womans pleasing of her husband; how does the Nun married to Christ (taking the vows and wearing that ring) please Him in an "earthly way

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?? Seriously .. I can't follow this 'logic'. There is no need for a nun to please Jesus in an earthly way. She lives a life devoted to him in a celebate way. Without an earthly husband, she can devote all her mind, heart and soul to God. The 'earthly flesh' doesn't even enter the equation.

I'm just not following you.

Originally posted by AQuestion
You don't undestand that there are people who think it is worse to be gay than kill people in the military, you know, with permission?

Ohhhhh .. now that you put it that way ... I finally can follow. Gotchya.
I can't answer that question .. because I don't have a problem with people being gay.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Homosexual urges, or pediphilism is the reason for celebacy,

No. The scripture quote that I gave is the reason for celebacy in the church. The bible says that it's better to be unmarried in the service of the Lord so that your attention isn't split between the work of the Lord and the things of the earth. You can devote more time to Gods work.

If said and true regarding the married womans pleasing of her husband; how does the Nun married to Christ (taking the vows and wearing that ring) please Him in an "earthly way

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??

Seriously .. I can't follow this 'logic'. There is no need for a nun to please Jesus in an earthly way. She lives a life devoted to him in a celebate way. Without an earthly husband, she can devote all her mind, heart and soul to God. The 'earthly flesh' doesn't even enter the equation.

I'm just not following you.

If God wanted all devoted to him/It so devout as to be 'in celebacy' where would the next generations of worshipers come from? If a Darwinist: a primordial jambalya soup- millions and millions of years, if a Creationist: leave it up to divine spirit to somehow conjour it without any carnal knoweledge. Yes MORE TIME NEEDED to question the motives of that 'thing' you worship and why being a cleric is anymore valid than being an individual spiritual being with a deep understanding of its creator.

You are saying the filthy reproducing masses do not understand the purity of celebacy in regards True Devotion to God? and in so being are not worthy. There is no reason for organized religion to exist (deflourish for some) anymore. The Dark and Middle Ages have been at an end for sometime; no more heathens needing Jesuits to arrive and kill off cultures. Although, if you want to follow this LOGIC-send yourself via time travel to Afganistan 1999 and see if you can help.

There is that other option. All potencial babes will be born by means of 'immaculate conception'. What hysterical confusion would arise out of that?

Sure it's better to kill gay people..

Gees.

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

before teaching me more about genetics, I should declare what I mean by homosexuality and gay sex.
I mean by homosexual sex that two sexual healthy humans have sex with the same sex. what is the relation between this and genetics !!!
there are just some rare people who have sex disorders which they can get cured simply. the disorders may have genetics sources. after all many of our physical and mental disorders and orders may have a genetic source !
saying that we should spread homosexual sex just because it may have a genetic source is the same that we should spread robbery because it may have a genetic source.
sexual curiosity of children is different from homosexual sex.
homosexual sex may be consensual. ok let it be. but even spreading that consensual unnatural sex as a marriage, is a big danger for societies.
people say that there are some videos on youtube of homosexual animals ! I checked. and I saw how people commented under them that they were pride because of being homosexual !! however most of them were unavailable. they are comparing themselves to animals !!!!
even so, but animals just follow their instincts. and their instincts force them to generate the next generation. if animals would practice homosexual intercourse then they would have extincted far ago ! moreover Sodom and Gomorrah would say why you are punishing us for what our pets are doing that naturally !!!!!!
there are hidden hands behind spreading homosexuality. and nations will not accept that someone force them to recognize homosexuality a marriage. and they will laugh at it's ignorance !!!

Originally posted by maes2
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

before teaching me more about genetics, I should declare what I mean by homosexuality and gay sex.
I mean by homosexual sex that two sexual healthy humans have sex with the same sex. what is the relation between this and genetics !!!
there are just some rare people who have sex disorders which they can get cured simply. the disorders may have genetics sources. after all many of our physical and mental disorders and orders may have a genetic source !
saying that we should spread homosexual sex just because it may have a genetic source is the same that we should spread robbery because it may have a genetic source.
sexual curiosity of children is different from homosexual sex.
homosexual sex may be consensual. ok let it be. but even spreading that consensual unnatural sex is a big danger for societies.
people say that there are some videos on youtube of homosexual animals ! I checked. and I saw how people commented under them that they were pride because of being homosexual !! however most of them were unavailable. they are comparing themselves to animals !!!!
even so, but animals just follow their instincts. and their instincts force them to generate the next generation. if animals would practice homosexual intercourse then they would have extincted far ago ! moreover Sodom and Gomorrah would say why you are punishing us for what our pets are doing that naturally !!!!!!
there are hidden hands behind spreading homosexuality. and nations will not accept that someone force them to recognize homosexuality a marriage. and they will laugh at it's ignorance !!!

Friendly precaution, delete your youtube history or someone's going to think you like watching homosexual animals getting it on

Ask God about His stance on homosexuality.

reply to post by halfoldman

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by maes2

 

Exactly, animals never have gay sex, and all those animals engaging in homosexuality on Youtube are paid homosexual actors in fur costumes!

All those studies with twins have never pointed to any possible genetic component whatsoever.
Gays are just very naughty or bored straight people, who need nothing but a good stoning to death, or a birching on the Isle of Man to turn them straight.

It's high time the US made gays illegal and became a normal homophobic country, like Saudi Arabia, Iran or Zimbabwe!
I'm sure that's what most Americans want.

The dark ages were actually the happiest time in humanity, and that's where politicians should lead us today.
There was no divorce or gay pride back then, and there was law and order, with wholesome family entertainment, like seeing heretics roasted alive.
Those were the days...

(sarcasm)

Best. Post. Ever.

Especially:

Gays are just very naughty or bored straight people, who need nothing but a good stoning to death, or a birching on the Isle of Man to turn them straight.

Can I buy you a beer?

reply to post by stupid girl

Cars kill waaaaay more people than guns and knives and swords combined.

But is the purpose of a car to kill? Do you mean to say, for example, that Henry Ford set out to create a killing machine by mass producing the car, but as a happy accident it just happened to serve as a transportation device?

I could make just about anything into a lethal object if I wanted to. Even a paperclip can be lethal if you put your mind to it. Does that mean we should treat paperclips the same way we do guns? Or should we treat guns the same way we do paperclips?

(And it's interesting how owning a car in the US requires one to jump through hoops, but owning a gun does not - cry me a river).

For what purpose were those AR-15s made? Decoration? Entertainment? Baby shower gifts? Why be so afraid to admit that they're killing machines? It's your right to have one so own it. Embrace it. But for decency's sake admit what they were made for. Don't compare them to cars. For the love of god a car was not made to kill. But a gun WAS made to kill.

Surely we have not come to this level of justification for our sins?

Originally posted by otherpotato
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Guns are used for protection from others with guns.

Truer words were never spoken. "We need guns because guns exist." Because we invented them. No wonder the Winchester Mansion lady went insane. Imagine living with that guilt.

That arguement only works if Mrs. Winchester was a lesbian; and wanted to kill herself for being so. If by mere chance occurance happenned to be a Christian as well, she would DOUBLE her efforts and could choose from such of a variety of Winchester arms would probably reconsider, an undaunting task decifering the actions of the weapons, correct caliber loads and the least messy result all too difficult to contemplate, then ring for high tea.

I'm thinking you are hung up on sex or something. You've PROJECTED your own thoughts and mistaken thoughts about what others believe onto the Catholic church.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
If God wanted all devoted to him/It so devout as to be 'in celebacy' where would the next generations of worshipers come from?

Where, exactly, do you get "ALL" from? Scripture and the Catholic Church are very clear in regard to priests and nuns .... many are called, and few are chosen. And those that are called and then chosen are asked not to be tied to the worldy things but instead to free themselves to be more in the service of God. It's all scriptural. It's fine. No one says that 'ALL DEVOTED TO HIM" have to be celebate. They say that those 'CHOSEN" to be in the service of the Lord (nuns, priests) should be.

You are saying the filthy reproducing masses do not understand the purity of celebacy in regards True Devotion to God? and in so being are not worthy.

You shouldn't say that. You shouldn't say ... 'you are saying ..' Because that simply isn't true. And you interjected your own rhetoric about 'filthy reproducing masses'. :shk: That's absurd and inflammatory. No one ever says anything even remotely like that.

All potencial babes will be born by means of 'immaculate conception'.

Dude ... you don't understand what the 'Immaculate Conception' is.

When the Catholic Church says 'Immaculate Conception', it is the Catholic Church referring to MARY, the Mother of Jesus. It's referring to her conception in her mothers womb and that she was conceived without original sin on her soul. THAT is what 'Immaculate Conception' means. I'm sure you disagree with this theology, but your belief or disbelief doesn't matter. That is what the term refers to.

Originally posted by otherpotato

I could make just about anything into a lethal object if I wanted to.

That's my point.

(And it's interesting how owning a car in the US requires one to jump through hoops, but owning a gun does not - cry me a river).

Yeah? No. Fail.
Seriously, I wouldn't even know where to start with this much Fail.

Surely we have not come to this level of justification for our sins?

Oh. Mah. Gawd.
Drama much?
Surely you are not insinuating that owning a gun is a sin?
Because I would totally bust out in hysterical laughter if you were. Like, really loud and obnoxious guffawing. Probably some snorting and spittle as well. Then it would probably be in my best interest to excuse myself from this thread at that point.

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

is there any law in Christianity for punishing Gays or the titles are just some propaganda !

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by maes2
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

before teaching me more about genetics, I should declare what I mean by homosexuality and gay sex.
I mean by homosexual sex that two sexual healthy humans have sex with the same sex. what is the relation between this and genetics !!!
there are just some rare people who have sex disorders which they can get cured simply. the disorders may have genetics sources. after all many of our physical and mental disorders and orders may have a genetic source !
saying that we should spread homosexual sex just because it may have a genetic source is the same that we should spread robbery because it may have a genetic source.
sexual curiosity of children is different from homosexual sex.
homosexual sex may be consensual. ok let it be. but even spreading that consensual unnatural sex is a big danger for societies.
people say that there are some videos on youtube of homosexual animals ! I checked. and I saw how people commented under them that they were pride because of being homosexual !! however most of them were unavailable. they are comparing themselves to animals !!!!
even so, but animals just follow their instincts. and their instincts force them to generate the next generation. if animals would practice homosexual intercourse then they would have extincted far ago ! moreover Sodom and Gomorrah would say why you are punishing us for what our pets are doing that naturally !!!!!!
there are hidden hands behind spreading homosexuality. and nations will not accept that someone force them to recognize homosexuality a marriage. and they will laugh at it's ignorance !!!

Friendly precaution, delete your youtube history or someone's going to think you like watching homosexual animals getting it on

Ask God about His stance on homosexuality.

You have the cell phone number to GOD and Its rascally whereabouts? Friendly precaution I'd like a front row seat watching you throw stones at yourself and trying/attempting to make yourself miss.

I WILL ASK. God, what is your stance on homosexuality? (Within a confessional) Why within the Church hidden well my Son/daughter, Peter! is that YOU??

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by maes2
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

before teaching me more about genetics, I should declare what I mean by homosexuality and gay sex.
I mean by homosexual sex that two sexual healthy humans have sex with the same sex. what is the relation between this and genetics !!!
there are just some rare people who have sex disorders which they can get cured simply. the disorders may have genetics sources. after all many of our physical and mental disorders and orders may have a genetic source !
saying that we should spread homosexual sex just because it may have a genetic source is the same that we should spread robbery because it may have a genetic source.
sexual curiosity of children is different from homosexual sex.
homosexual sex may be consensual. ok let it be. but even spreading that consensual unnatural sex is a big danger for societies.
people say that there are some videos on youtube of homosexual animals ! I checked. and I saw how people commented under them that they were pride because of being homosexual !! however most of them were unavailable. they are comparing themselves to animals !!!!
even so, but animals just follow their instincts. and their instincts force them to generate the next generation. if animals would practice homosexual intercourse then they would have extincted far ago ! moreover Sodom and Gomorrah would say why you are punishing us for what our pets are doing that naturally !!!!!!
there are hidden hands behind spreading homosexuality. and nations will not accept that someone force them to recognize homosexuality a marriage. and they will laugh at it's ignorance !!!

Friendly precaution, delete your youtube history or someone's going to think you like watching homosexual animals getting it on

Ask God about His stance on homosexuality.

Have you asked what is its cell phone number and where exactly does IT reside? Friendly precaution throw the stones at yourself and try/attempt to make yourself miss.

Are you directing this towards me?

Originally posted by maes2
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

is there any law in Christianity for punishing Gays or the titles are just some propaganda !

I don't understand.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I'm thinking you are hung up on sex or something. You've PROJECTED your own thoughts and mistaken thoughts about what others believe onto the Catholic church.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
If God wanted all devoted to him/It so devout as to be 'in celebacy' where would the next generations of worshipers come from?

Where, exactly, do you get "ALL" from? Scripture and the Catholic Church are very clear in regard to priests and nuns .... many are called, and few are chosen. And those that are called and then chosen are asked not to be tied to the worldy things but instead to free themselves to be more in the service of God. It's all scriptural. It's fine. No one says that 'ALL DEVOTED TO HIM" have to be celebate. They say that those 'CHOSEN" to be in the service of the Lord (nuns, priests) should be.

You are saying the filthy reproducing masses do not understand the purity of celebacy in regards True Devotion to God? and in so being are not worthy.

You shouldn't say that. You shouldn't say ... 'you are saying ..' Because that simply isn't true. And you interjected your own rhetoric about 'filthy reproducing masses'. :shk: That's absurd and inflammatory. No one ever says anything even remotely like that.

All potencial babes will be born by means of 'immaculate conception'.

Dude ... you don't understand what the 'Immaculate Conception' is.

When the Catholic Church says 'Immaculate Conception', it is the Catholic Church referring to MARY, the Mother of Jesus. It's referring to her conception in her mothers womb and that she was conceived without original sin on her soul. THAT is what 'Immaculate Conception' means. I'm sure you disagree with this theology, but your belief or disbelief doesn't matter. That is what the term refers to.

edit on 2/5/2013 by FlyersFan because: typo

Oh I know exactly what I am flavoring. Not me hung up on the sex thing; purpose for procreation. I do not know of one Nun or Priest to have consentual sex and produce YIKES another potencial JESUS. WHY? If a possibility exists, it would be within the Catholic Doctrine. UNHEARD OF (well you never know--another Jesus babe could be hidden within the Vatican Walls maybe one of the (Boys of Brazil film comes to mind) on a book shelf in the basement Libraries filed duidecimal under 'an IDEA OF J'. One of 21 potencial nazi infiltraters. I should'nt say anything inflammatory? unfortunately no one as yet has cut my vocals so I have pitch, and I find repugnant exactly what it is and call it? "The Chosen" obviously are not the Christian masses, but there are some that call themselves by that moniker and definiately ARE NOT CHRISTIAN. Do you have a problem with them as well? At least 'The Chosen" know it; and believe me this carries some weight--what are you in comparison to because that is a belief system fully formed and would take an army of SnoPuff Marshmallow Men to defeat it.

You have no idea whom I am and how empathetic I am regarding ALL things.

I think you actually need to talk to Joseph the husband regarding Marys pregnancy. He would know or another thought; talk to Mary herself or do you not know how to do so. I am always available.

I realize there is a large number of people who proclaim to believe in and worship the same God I do that will disagree with me, but, here it is.

I don't see homosexuality as a sin. It's very unclear in scripture and the verses that allude to it have other possible interpretations than homosexuality. It is not spelled out anywhere in scripture. Not original text anyway. Of course all the interpretations and translations CLAIM it is, but it isn't. Additionally, I see a lot of the interpretations and translations as being against scripture themselves. Afterall, we aren't to change one jot or tittle from the original text, but they do. Over and over and over. They have translations of translations of translations and then claim that it's the very word of God. It isn't. They're full of crap.

God didn't say a single thing about homosexuals. Jesus Christ didn't mention them even once. There are even some ancient texts that suggest he was present at a "union" but of course we'll never hear about that from the pulpit will we?

My opinion on it is that people will always twist scripture to justify what they are doing and to condemn whatever they disagree with. They used scripture to support the owning of slaves. They used scripture to support the Salem witch trials. They used scripture to support the crusades in the middle ages where countless people were murdered. Hitler used it, the KKK uses it, now the homophobes use it.

This doesn't mean scripture is evil, it doesn't mean Christianity (what it SHOULD be) is evil. It means people have bastardized it, they have twisted it, they have warped it. They don't practice Christianity when they do this, they practice hatred and that's the complete opposite of what Christianity is supposed to be.

If Jesus Christ were here today, the very people who CLAIM to follow him would be the people who would be shouting for him to be crucified. They aren't Christian at all. They say the follow Christ but they act completely contrary to what he taught. Christ told us not to hate, he didn't say not to love. If two men or two women love each other and dedicate themselves to one another, who am I to say they shouldn't be allowed?

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

I am not familiar with the society of USA. I am just asking why there are so much threads on ATS that Christians want to kill Gays ? why do people think that Christianity wants to kill Gays ? Is there any law about that in Bible ?

with so much propaganda for pretending homosexuality something natural and holy, by stance of few corrupted clerics of Judaism, Christianity and even Islam about the holy homosexuality, why are there still people who think that Gays are not respected in USA.

spreading homosexuality is to control population (because they can not say oh people do not do fornication or adultery, and do not bring us so much children without family, saying that is forbidden according to the religion of secularism) and to make people passive to the satanic new world order. in a new world order which anti_Christ will emerge at the top !!! just my view.

Originally posted by maes2
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

I am not familiar with the society of USA. I am just asking why there are so much threads on ATS that Christians want to kill Gays ? why do people think that Christianity wants to kill Gays ? Is there any law about that in Bible ?

with so much propaganda for pretending homosexuality something natural and holy, by stance of few corrupted clerics of Judaism, Christianity and even Islam about the holy homosexuality, why are there still people who think that Gays are not respected in USA.

spreading homosexuality is to control population (because they can not say oh people do not do fornication or adultery, and do not bring us so much children without family, saying that is forbidden according to the religion of secularism) and to make people passive to the satanic new world order. in a new world order which anti_Christ will emerge at the top !!! just my view.

Ah ok. I understand. Well, in the US, homosexuality is progressively attacked by traditional Christian churches. And most of these traditional Churches take verses from Leviticus and supplement them in their doctrines. You know the whole "stone the homosexuals" verse in Leviticus? I personally have experienced hate speech under religious pretense within the Methodist church I used to attend. and I was quite disgusted by the words of the visiting pastor. I was surprised everyone was taking this message so lightly.

Although there is less provocation to commit violent actions against homosexuals from traditional "Christians," those fringe groups have created a bad name for Christianity and it changes other people's perceptions of Christianity in general. This stance on homosexuality should be less dependent on religious views and more dependent of social equality,.

And I know English isn't your first language but could you explain the last paragraph?