Fellow "christians", why do you think it is better to kill people than be gay?

reply to post by AQuestion


Well if that's not begging the question...

Originally posted by GmoS719
"But whoever kills a believer intentionally - his recompense is Hell, wherein he will abide eternally, and Allah has become angry with him and has cursed him and has prepared for him a great punishment. --Koran 4:93 "

you are right. well I should have not quoted this verse. this verse is about a special situation of the first days of Islam and believer here is an opposite to enemies of muslim society in that time. the polytheists of Mecca who had waged war against muslims.
the problem is that when Salafists and Wahabists (the ideologies of Alqeda and Taliban) read such verses they can not understand it and they say ok we are free to kill every one which we think is an unbeliever. even muslims ! what they are doing now in Syria, Iraq, Pakistan and .... they are killing other muslims and Christians because of being some polytheists. indeed they are deaf and blind !

"Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors. --Koran 5:32"

this verse is speaking of a common law between monotheistic religions. that killing an innocent person is killing the mankind entirely. his ideology has no importance.

reply to post by AQuestion

Originally posted by AQuestion
The biggest mistake the Catholic church made was in not outing the pedophiles within the church. God fearing Protestants, why we should we do the same? Why should we fail to call out those who wish to violate the ten commandments and Jesus's words?

Simply put…you shouldn’t be afraid, to call them out. Jesus says that all those who love him, will keep his Commandments. So standing up for the Commandments, and trying to get others to do the same, is a righteous act IMO.

It’s a sad state of affairs, when the people who don’t even believe in a God, are more righteous, than the actual believers. It seems to me, that many Christians are just religious converts, who’s faith in God, is just part of their tradition.

- JC

Originally posted by adjensen
From the Catholic perspective, being a homosexual is not a sin, but having sexual relations outside of marriage, or to satiate lust, rather than to create life, is a sin, just as it is for heterosexuals.

Homosexual desires, however, are not in themselves sinful. People are subject to a wide variety of sinful desires over which they have little direct control, but these do not become sinful until a person acts upon them, either by acting out the desire or by encouraging the desire and deliberately engaging in fantasies about acting it out. People tempted by homosexual desires, like people tempted by improper heterosexual desires, are not sinning until they act upon those desires in some manner. (Source)

Thus, the church encourages celibacy for homosexuals (just as it does for unmarried heterosexuals) and recognizes that sin is what it is, and will be forgiven for the person who asks.

The church encourages celibacy for homosexuals as it does for unmarried heterosexials, does that apply to the Priesthood describing it's OWN self in so far as its complete denial of the carnel body and physical desire UNCLEAN? I see it as unnatural desires by the priests condeming their own contagious thoughts and passing it along to the flock. Who does not see this as a major hippocracy? The only reason the Church if in reference to the Catholic wants married (legal no bastards) heterosexials to have carnel relations is to produce more sheepified Catholics; and the more the better. Homosexuals by nature of their sexuality (unless qualifiying for adoption) do not produce childen to then indoctrinate. The Sin equals Forgiveness quotient? Not the business of the secularized religious componant. Only you (with your personal understanding of God) can do this.

Seriousy, think of an entire world exclusively inhabited by only Priests and Nuns, No children at all forthcoming of any carnel union. This premise is so unnatural as to be ridiculous; and to throw any kind of sin into the mix.
Why do they put so much credence on "original sin", not sexual; KNOWELEGE based.

To my mind if love can be found anywhere (in this world as existing) regardless of sexual indentification it is a good thing. Hello AQuestion; regards.

Originally posted by AQuestion


Here is a question. Is it okay if I preach to people who have stolen? Yes or no. Now, is it okay if I preach to gays even if I am not? Please show me the hope and love that is inside you. AQuestion.

First off, do you , not literally you, understand why homosexuals are homosexuals? Do you understand their spiritual make up? We, as a collective society, barely understand if homosexuality is due to genetics or upbringing so who is say we know what is going on behind the curtains of the sacred dimension?

Second, we first have to understand why the Jewish texts are the way they are relative to the time it was written.

The only message that I would preach to these different group of people is the same message: God loves all of you. We are all the same in the eyes of God, therefore we must be humble and truly love each other.

There's a lot of good points in the OP.

I'm a gay person, but spiritually I feel like a refugee.

It's so easy to bring up homosexuality, but I don't think I ever had a choice in the matter.

It's so easy to be objectified, and to be spoken of with great authority.

Do any of you know what it's actually like being gay?

Do you know what it feels like to shatter all the parental exceptions?
To hurt and disappoint people so badly?

Do you have people making movements behind your back to mock you?
To mock the way you speak and move your hands?

I don't see compassion.
Only judgements.

Let me tell you about being gay.
Fear, yes fear all the time.

Fearing the heterosexuals, and hoping they won't beat me to death.

I hope you heterosexuals are proud of that.

Originally posted by GmoS719
To say whether one sin is worse than another would be irrelevant.
All sin no matter what it is separates us from God.

I disagree, God understands sin because it was the creator of it for a purpose; to know itself expressed by the human.

reply to post by adjensen

The church encourages celibacy for homosexuals

Apparently the church has a problem with sex between two consenting, same sex adults, but has no problem allowing sex between an adult and a non-consenting child. If not in theory, at least in practice.

I also would like to preemptively point out that homosexuality does not equal pedophilia. I wish there was as much outrage and stigma attached to pedophiles as there was to homosexuals. One variety of person hurts another. One does not. People seem to be confused about the difference (I am speaking in general terms here).

As for the OP, I agree: owning a gun states a willingness to kill. Owning a gun is its own form of premeditated murder. But everyone has the right to make that choice for themselves.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by GmoS719

 

Dear GmoS719,

And your comment about guns does not exist yet. Tell us what you think about what I said.

This I can address; guns are not inheritantly evil, just as the mace or hot oil or sword, catapult, crossbow, daggar, axe, shovel/pitchfork, longbows, pikes, tommy guns, dirk, grenades, 3.75 LAW, 81mm mortars, M79 grenade launcher, Vulcan cal mini guns, M60 machine guns, Surface to air missiles, ICBMS, Sidewinders, Toes, Scuds, APGS, I.E.D.s. Detroit High Balls. Black Cat firecrackers, Cherry Bombs and Roman Candles.

These were allowed to be Created, however up to the discretion of the individual to use at/against whomevers nieghbors backyard BBQ/Block Party that had to be immediately THWARTED.

Originally posted by otherpotato
reply to post by adjensen

 

The church encourages celibacy for homosexuals

Apparently the church has a problem with sex between two consenting, same sex adults, but has no problem allowing sex between an adult and a non-consenting child. If not in theory, at least in practice.

Show me where the Catholic Catechism teaches that "sex between an adult and a non-consenting child" is acceptable church doctrine.

Barring that, you're an anti-Catholic troll, one of many on ATS.

reply to post by adjensen


You can't call troll and make the truth disappear. What's the point of doctrine if it isn't followed in the highest ranks of the church? Don't give me that crap.

I was raised catholic and I still hold on to much of it. But I cannot defend the indefensible. You could say I have "first hand knowledge" of the difference between doctrine and reality that has existed in the Catholic church for a very long time.

Originally posted by otherpotato
reply to post by adjensen

 

You could say I have "first hand knowledge" of the difference between doctrine and reality that has existed in the Catholic church for a very long time.

I don't know what your experience is, but anecdotal evidence doesn't mean that there is an intentional teaching on the church's part that reprehensible behaviour is acceptable. I spent quite a bit of time earlier today, reading many of the reports that the Archdiocese of Los Angeles released today.

There is a lot of heartbreaking stories in there and, yes, clear instances of cover up, but the overwhelming sense I got from a lot of the reports that were "coming up" to the Archdiocese was that these reporting priests and administrators just didn't know what do. They recognized the severity of what was happening, but for a lot of those reports (mostly from the late 1960s to early 80s) there just weren't policies in place that gave a plan of action, apart from sending the priest for counseling and assigning them somewhere that didn't involve children.

This graph shows the number of incidents that were reported to the Archdiocese:


The years of that are from 1931 to 2008 and shows a very clear trend on the "backside" -- at some point, the church implemented procedures that answered that "what do I do with this guy?" question, and the result was a rapid reduction in instances of abuse.

Again, not for one moment do I defend these repugnant priests or those who intentionally protected them, or the church, over the safety of children, but I think that the facts demonstrate that the church does not teach that this behaviour is normal or acceptable.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by Vethumanbeing
This I can address; guns are not inheritantly evil, just as the mace or hot oil or sword, catapult, crossbow, daggar, axe, shovel/pitchfork, longbows, pikes, tommy guns, dirk, grenades, 3.75 LAW, 81mm mortars, M79 grenade launcher, Vulcan cal mini guns, M60 machine guns, Surface to air missiles, ICBMS, Sidewinders, Toes, Scuds, APGS, I.E.D.s. Detroit High Balls. Black Cat firecrackers, Cherry Bombs and Roman Candles.

Did you forget anything on the list lol like the ancient ball and chain perhaps, used by Scottish Highlanders...

You do realize that the majority of those “items”, on your list, were solely designed, for the purpose of killing others, right?

“Oh, buts it’s the people who kill, not the weapon” I hear you cry…but the weapons are sure making, the breaking of the Ten Commandments, a lot easier.

- JC

reply to post by Joecroft


More people are killed by blunt force blows, (baseball bats/ tire irons) than were killed by "assault weapons" last year (321). More people were stabbed to death by a margin of 25-1 than were killed by "assault weapons".

Where is the call to ban these items which lead to exponentially more deaths?

Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Originally posted by Vethumanbeing
This I can address; guns are not inheritantly evil, just as the mace or hot oil or sword, catapult, crossbow, daggar, axe, shovel/pitchfork, longbows, pikes, tommy guns, dirk, grenades, 3.75 LAW, 81mm mortars, M79 grenade launcher, Vulcan cal mini guns, M60 machine guns, Surface to air missiles, ICBMS, Sidewinders, Toes, Scuds, APGS, I.E.D.s. Detroit High Balls. Black Cat firecrackers, Cherry Bombs and Roman Candles.

Did you forget anything on the list lol like the ancient ball and chain perhaps, used by Scottish Highlanders...

You do realize that the majority of those “items”, on your list, were solely designed, for the purpose of killing others, right?

“Oh, buts it’s the people who kill, not the weapon” I hear you cry…but the weapons are sure making, the breaking of the Ten Commandments, a lot easier.

- JC

Well, there was always the making money aspect of the manufacturing of such; lucrative, enticing. I did forget the ram on balwart chains; as far as the Scottish secret weapon--yes the Cairn Terrier. A Sleeper dog (were used as pillows; also good badger hunters) that would alert the ragged plaid wearer "ARFY BARK BARK" you are about to be bludgeoned to death or having your throat cut LOOK OUT! Never pack them they are as wolves very killerly.

Plaid was invented by the Scottish as a camoflage 14th century. Way before the English Dazzalflage painted ships WW2. My plaid? Campbell/McNaughten/McKendrick

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Vethumanbeing
More people are killed by blunt force blows, (baseball bats/ tire irons) than were killed by "assault weapons" last year (321). More people were stabbed to death by a margin of 25-1 than were killed by "assault weapons".

Where is the call to ban these items which lead to exponentially more deaths?

Did you see vethumanbeings list lol

Most of those weapons are designed specifically to kill, or seriously maim.

Baseball bats aren’t designed for killing purposes, even though they can do serious damage.

Anyway, I wasn’t talking about just guns; I was addressing vethumanbeings entire list of weapons.

- JC

reply to post by Joecroft


Guns are a tool just like a knife or a bat. Guns are used for protection from others with guns. And to the point our 2nd amendment wasn't given to us for hunting, it was given to us to combat a tyrannical government. And you cannot attempt to match their firepower without like weapons.

reply to post by AQuestion


Dear aquestion,
Does making you a preacher make you a Christian? Because I really don't think it does. There are many persons who impersonate cops. Does that make them cops?

You suggest that Christians are ok with killing gays and that they are gun crazy. Just because you disagree with that thought that is not bases in reality, you have made assumptions of your own.

Do Christians not have a right to defend themselves against violent aggression? Because to me it sounds like you think that we should all be pacified and just accept whatever comes in our direction.

But to me I don't think you are really a Christian..

Instead I think you are more likely a worthless human being and you also think that of yourself. See because you are not really posting this thread for the betterment of gods children. Instead you have posted a thread meant to divide and conquer.

You are not a Christian. It doesnt matter how many times you say you are.

You are selfish and wish to divide Christians and invoke the gay card, it's just like the race card.

Shame on you.

You are no different than the gay murderer you suggest that Christians are.

You are no better than a spoiled dog.
You are a rabid animal.
How dare you!

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Joecroft

 

Guns are a tool just like a knife or a bat. Guns are used for protection from others with guns. And to the point our 2nd amendment wasn't given to us for hunting, it was given to us to combat a tyrannical government. And you cannot attempt to match their firepower without like weapons.

And guess what? Law enforcement is at a bit of a conundrum. We own better armament than they do. Therein lies the rub. Natural law in place here, we do not fear you fear us.

Originally posted by txinfidel
reply to post by AQuestion

 

You are no better than a spoiled dog.
You are a rabid animal.
How dare you!

Seriously? SOUL KILLER MAKES YOU THE VILLIAN. I have NEVER READ SUCH VITRIOLIC HATRED FEAR expressed. What in the world are you afraid of other than yourself, as WITNESS.