Does anti-Obama hatred undermine collectively held US values?

reply to post by Threadfall

but if you ask for more than that you'll just get more played out platitudes. the hatred towards obama is as real as it is racially motivated, in my opinion. im white, american, male, southern, and none too fond of obama

Speak for yourself! Obama just woke up the sleeping giant with his ramming Socialist programs down our throat. He did it himself because he is at cross purposes with the Patriots and the rugged individualists of this country. The people who support him do so because they think he is going to save them, pay for their gas and rent, give them goodies from the public coffers, and take care of them in general, and because he supports the Socialist and radical leftist agenda. He is as far left and radical as it gets, and very close to abject tyranny.
I would like to know where you were when liberals were hating on Bush so much they posted pics of him as a monkey and so on? Obama does far worse things and you call it racism.

I have very little left to say about your ideas and others who believe as you do, that just because you want a Nanny State to take care of you, tell you how much food you can eat and how big a drink you can have, while redefining traditonal marriage and other traditions, does not mean the rest of us have to agree.

reply to post by Malynn

People who call him a socialist and communist have no idea what they're talking about

All I can say to you is you would do well to study the writings of the late Antony Sutton, who wrote extensively on how crony Capitalism fed the Bolsheviks, Hitler, the Communist Soviet Union, and much more.

Here is a start for you

www.jrbooksonline.com...

Therefore, an alternative conceptual packaging of political ideas and politico-economic

systems would be that of ranking the degree of individual freedom versus the degree of
centralized political control. Under such an ordering the corporate welfare state and socialism
are at the same end of the spectrum. Hence we see that attempts at monopoly control of society
can have different labels while owning common features.
Consequently, one barrier to mature understanding of recent history is the notion that all
capitalists are the bitter and unswerving enemies of all Marxists and socialists. This erroneous
idea originated with Karl Marx and was undoubtedly useful to his purposes. In fact, the idea is
nonsense. There has been a continuing, albeit concealed, alliance between international
political capitalists and international revolutionary socialists — to their mutual benefit. This
alliance has gone unobserved largely because historians — with a few notable exceptions — have
an unconscious Marxian bias and are thus locked into the impossibility of any such alliance
existing. The open-minded reader should bear two clues in mind: monopoly capitalists are the
bitter enemies of laissez-faire entrepreneurs; and, given the weaknesses of socialist central
planning, the totalitarian socialist state is a perfect captive market for monopoly capitalists

I hope you read it before making more unfounded remarks.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I used to say "anyone but Hillary", as it is clear what her Marxist agenda is, and that of all Progressives, but Obama really takes the cake. Did you see their cute little love-fest on the news recently? Back scratching anyone?

Trust me, I'm as opposed to Hills as I am Obama, Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Maxine Watters, and any other member of DSA or any other typical leftist Progressive.

Did you by any chance see Dinesh D'Aouza's documentary film on Obama and his anti Colonialist roots? If you did, then you must agree with Obama's stance that knocking the US down a notch is good for our country and everyone else. This is where your little collectivist ideal falls apart. How can it be Collective Salvation if they have to destroy us in the process? The real agenda is that of Soros, destroying American dominance and redistributing our wealth abroad.

Obama does have some good policies, that's for sure, but he also has a tendency to continue the totalitarian policies George W. Bush, Jr. started. I think it is a fairly American thing to do to be skeptical of your government, especially when it involves free speech.

I am not happy about the disinformation though, whether by the left-wing media, right-wing media or people like Rush Limbaugh or others who try to capitalize off of fear. There is so much disinformation out there, that I have no idea what is really going on, to be honest.

I mean, how many people seek out reliable sources? Are there any? I use BBC, and ATS because all kinds of different viewpoints are brought here and discussed.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Speak for yourself! Obama just woke up the sleeping giant with his ramming Socialist programs down our throat. He did it himself because he is at cross purposes with the Patriots and the rugged individualists of this country. The people who support him do so because they think he is going to save them, pay for their gas and rent, give them goodies from the public coffers, and take care of them in general, and because he supports the Socialist and radical leftist agenda. He is as far left and radical as it gets, and very close to abject tyranny.

Do you really believe all that and if so, can you offer any support to back up the claim/argument? Thanks.

I know the Health Care bill was pretty contentious, but wasn't it neccessary, both for the sake of soaring health care costs and as an issue of social justice?

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

Yes but wasn't Romney really the crony capitalist and Bush/Cheney (who derugulated the Banking industry)?

My sense is that Obama and Biden are trying to sway things away from that and back in favor of the middle class and equal access to the American dream.

US People Come To Power!

And just to show you that I'm not being a mindless sheep, and have my thinking cap on and my head screwed on straight (at least I hope so), I would like to offer the following from the thread My Dear American Friends, what is wrong with the USA? (it's worth the read I think, well you be the judge my American friend and citizen)

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
I'm a Canadian and I love the USA, let me just make that clear right off the bat.

The United States basically gave birth to modern history as we know it, and it's an exceptional nation for a whole host of reasons, not the least of which is the well meaning, decent and hard working ethic, family and community values etc, of it's people. I mean as a nation you've still got it going on, and so let me remind you just who and what you are, and remain. Now of course there'll be one or two of you, at most, hopefully, who are sure to say "listen up Canadian panzy hippy Jesus freak, we don't need YOU to tell US what a great nation we really are, and if it wasn't for us protecting your asses, you'd be screwed what'ya got some Indians and a Mountie on a horse, compared to us you're an insignificant fly at best, we rule the world so get used to it" to which I would reply, very calmly if not with an inviting smile, "have a beer eh" and then see what ya gotta say to that.. in other words, save it, and have a beer, for real.

Seriously, while we know and love and remember who and what you have been and to a degree still are as a nation, we've been rather concerned you might say, for what going on over a DECADE now! To be honest it's ruined many of our lives, including my own worrying about you along with the state of world affairs ie: it all went to # OMG!

I'm not going to try to "diagnose" the fundamental underlying nature of the problem, and truly only an American citizen is entitled to do that, what is it for me to say, or even for that matter the entire watching and somewhat horrified world..

Only you can somehow fix it, and make "it" better, because if you can't then we all may be screwed, hey at least we're in it together as "North Americans", and it's not like the whole continent is breaking up or losing integrity anytime soon - so maybe it's not too late?

The degree of constructive optimism vs. absolute cynicism and apathy, will tell the tale now, and since we're at a conspiracy website it may be tilted a little in favor of an abject state of utter powerlessness in the face of unseen forces of wickedness and evil, in both high and low places, about which there is absolute nothing we can do but rail against it forever in eternity, giving in to the matrix and the dumbing down (sorry gotta check my device brb..), ceasing to rage against the machine, giving up..

And that's what scares me more than anything, at any level (and I'm deep), your surrender to the "status quo", as if you don't make a difference, helpless to enact meaningful change and transformation while some Alien or the Pope or one God or another greedily harvests your energies in some insidious plot to enslave us all (sound familiar?, and I know that there are many among you prepared to argue in FAVOR of this, unto your dying breath if need be, I know, trust me I KNOW maybe even more than I'm letting on..

So in the final analysis, here's what I see, as the eternal optimist that I am or have become, have been convinced to become by reason and logic.

I see a fulcrum in our midst, a great historical fulcrum, a turning point, even in alignment with the stars as a force of gravity, since universal principals of truth and justice are just that, universal, they bend the whole distance... (sit with that for a while oh yea of the meditative persuasion).

And here's the thing. It's at the expense of all the idiots and all the nonsense don't you see? So it's a fulcrum that also leaves "burning coals on their heads" (see Proverbs), and that, my friends, my good American friends, is very funny - so the contrast that you've created, on the dumbing down scale of things (you might say please forgive me I'm sorry for saying it), is PERFECT, and right now, at this very moment in human history, like no other, is represented the opportunity of a lifetime even if only because things just simply can't get any worse than they've gotten, it just HAS to get better, it can't not.

Therefore, it's a GREAT time to be alive my American friends, like no other. Congrats on not COMPLETELY falling apart like the Roman Empire, and utterly crumbling, we're glad to see you getting back up and on your feet again that's a relief on the economic front, but what now..?

Run for office, build a company, come to power, because there's nothing more powerful than a central idea whose time has come, and God help the politicians, and corporate bullies everywhere, because I am here to proclaim, from this particular channel of the noosphere, maybe even from the cusp of it's cosmogenesis, that YOU LOST, and WE WON.

It's already a done deal - we've woken up ONE ENTIRE GENERATION of the American populace, or close to it (yeah there's a LOT of "dumbing down" around the fringes..).

COME TO POWER, for the love of God, and when you do NEVER compromise your integrity, be a rock and do not blow with the winds of (I don't know what to call it it's that bad).

And against our rock of truth and reasonableness, their "house" will, go, thump, while the spirit of Christ comes like a thief in the night, to set right the pillars of righteousness, and may the demons in the system have nowhere left to hide... imagine that... imagine, that.

It IS a new age for mankind - that's all my monicur represents, is just the hope, the mere hope, that we can leverage this fulcrum, and lay the foundation of a new model and a new way of doing things, with both the utmost awareness and, the utmost humor, and joy.

Please, for the love of God and people everywhere, do not give up on your country or yourselves or your neighbor by any means, there's no REASON to. None.

Paranoia is also a big Destroya.. - don't forget that, you've got to be very careful and very discerning before you write your own country off as forever beyond retrieval, because you are an American, and what does it say about you to hold such a cynical view, both of your country and the whole world for that matter, why must it be all FUBAR all the time, that's stupid and utterly inane to hold to that position at any and all cost, in fact it's absolute hilarious when you really stop and think about it..

So I say Godspeed my American fiends and neighbors to the south, Godspeed, and

May God, once again, bless, the United States of America, and, the rest of the world too - we deserve it, we've suffered ENOUGH God help us, and I mean that allegorically even humorously as I much as I really mean it for real, if not as an exclamation of panic. Do not panic, do not be afraid, the only thing to fear is.... blah blah blah the end.

NAM
aka Bob or Rob if you prefer.

Largely forgetting what I just wrote but just going ahead and clicking post WTH I felt pretty good while I was writing it - so whatever I (he) said.. points nowhere.

Be of good cheer! There is nothing to fear have a beer, eh?

edit on 3-1-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by eLPresidente
Will America fall like the Roman Empire did before such change occurs?

I hope so...

Is that really what you want, rioting in the streets.. the government in a crackdown, the states impoverished, the people oppressed with violence, chaos, anarchy?

Instead, how 'bout a quiet revolution where "we" just boil "them" like frogs in the collective waters and the "foam" of our rising civil conscious awareness, and PUSH on the fulcrum until the entire pyramid inverts in favor of the little guy, average American Joe who was abandoned by big time corporate and other "special" interests, I mean like isn't all the data already in? And if it's all up in the air, and "out of control", if nobody's really "at the wheel" then how much of a push could it take - and I'm not talking pushing against some force of evil and thus empowering it, like Alex Jones on a rant, no I'm talking about what we push for, by comparison, and in that crux finding the fulcrum of historical transformation, while also improving our own lives and those of others around us in the process ie: having fun, being creative, charting a course to something better at all levels, both as a bottom up, and, as a top-down evolutionary phenomenon of change and transformation, because the other pyramid when it inverted immediately sank into the abyss for the absurd and irrational position or "status quo" that it was, pulled down by it's own hubris, while the real America is reborn, based on what we think, and feel and create, at all levels.

It's simply a matter of coming to power, which like the ancient Hindu Brahmas originates in the heart as a first/last cause transforming every facet of civilized social thinking and conduct, and in so doing changing the world one person at a time, starting with ourselves.

For those wondering about a solution, I encourage you again to watch this video "An Idea Whose Time Has Come"

To which this poster vind21 probably responded to most accurately when he said

Originally posted by vind21
The problem is the american citizen doesn't care.

As bad as things seem to be life is still to easy for most, and these chairs today are so comfortable.

It's both very sad and very funny at the same time, and a call to action, to all manner of creative action and the generation of novel forms and ideas, new ways of looking at things, innovation, leadership.

You have the power, but to re-establish that power in the world it must be claimed, not based on what you oppose only, but evermoreso what you propose to do instead.

Come to power.

That's my final two cents on the issue for whatever it's worth.

Best Regards, and God Bless,

NAM

February 1st, 2013 (so far so good).
Vancouver Canada, Earth.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

I used to hate Bush/Cheney, but there were REASONS for it.

Well there ya go.

You had your reasons and they seemed perfectly, valid, correct and justified to you. To someone who liked Bush / Cheney they might have made no sense at all. You might have said "Bush is X, Y & Z" and someone who like Bush would not see it that way.

People that don't like Obama's policies have their reasons. They seem perfectly, valid, correct and justified to those people. To someone who likes Obama (like yourself) they may make no sense at all.

reply to post by Dukesy


Monkeyman lol? You are just helping enforce the OP's point by racist namecalling, calling him a fake, unfit, calling his ideas silly etc.

I am not someone who hates the President, and I think that to say that some American's hate him is a little extreme to say.

Anyone who hates someone they don't know, that is, a celebrity-type person, is probably not that educated of a person.

I think that the criticism of Obama is based on an ever increasing awareness that this is not man per se, but a corporate brand, a public relations spun legend if you will, for the interests of the leading corporations in the United States.

This is evident by his lack of specifics on issues of real importance (i.e. how to create jobs, an end to imperialism, pointing the finger at the culprits of the financial disasters around the world: the bankers). When it comes to matters of little to no importance to a nation, which the United States is, it's all we hear about. Issues like gay marriage, putting women on the front line of combat, gun control, etc. Pet project issues for his constituency.

When I say that Obama is a corporate brand, is the reason Obama is even more reviled than his predecessor George Bush. George Bush wasn't sold. We didn't know how he was a son of Kenyan goat herder who, through a little, old fashioned elbow grease, got through college and became a professor of Constitutional Law. We knew that his daddy, and his daddy's daddy were big names in government brass, and that by-golly it was Old G.W's turn. There was no facade. We knew when he got in he would be a pro-war corporate sock puppet and by his second term we got exactly what we paid for.

Obama is different. Obama has a brand. Listening to mainstream media news outlets and hearing liberal and leftish pundits talk about him has branded him with all manners of imagery. We hear that he is the next Lincoln. The next Roosevelt. Hell, the next Reagan. We heard his first campaign slogans of Hope and Change. We heard his promises. And even someone who may have been slightly cynical, at least, in their heart of hearts, at least hoped Obama would do what he said would, in his first term.

But the branding is coming off.

On most of the issues that his hardcore (and I stress, educated) constituency believe in, he has not made good on. That is, anti-war stances, non-imperial stances, reigning in Wall Street, etc.

So, the corporate world gives him a Nobel Peace Prize within his first six months. What does he do for his entire presidency? Every Monday he chooses a few names on a list for unmanned Predator drones to assassinate with sloppily fired Hellfire missiles.

We can see that for most of the stances he takes on important issues, there is not much difference between G.W. and himself.

How are people in the United States reacting? Poorly. We don't like it.

I believe in your post you mentioned something to the affect that we should suspend our criticism, and back him up in what he does as a way to help him push his policies. I think nothing could be further from the truth. The President of the United States is no more worthy of worshipping in this way, as Ben Affleck or Sasha Baron Cohen.

The take home message here is that with Barack Obama, it's dreadfully obvious that he does not have the health of the Republic, in a Constitutional way, in mind. If he has his own vision, which it is obvious he does, he needs to cease such actions, or suffer unpopularity through the American people.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

I know the Health Care bill was pretty contentious, but wasn't it neccessary, both for the sake of soaring health care costs and as an issue of social justice?

"Social Justice"? How is attempting to force me to purchase a useless product from a private company to be understood as "justice"? Where does your brand of "justice" end? Is it also "just" to attempt to force me to purchase a new car every year because some guy I don't know or want to know in Detroit made a bad choice of career by hitching his wagon to a system failing under the weight of it's own greed?

You may feed that greed all you like, but don't expect me to fall into line because YOU think it's "just" for ME to throw my money away. I don't care what you do with your own money, and am at a loss at to why you believe it's "just" for you to control mine as well.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

All I can say to you is you would do well to study the writings of the late Antony Sutton, who wrote extensively on how crony Capitalism fed the Bolsheviks, Hitler, the Communist Soviet Union, and much more.

All I can say is I've had this debate with you before and you don't know what you're talking about. Is Obama a super awesome guy? Absolutely not. Is he a socialist or communist? No.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Obama is Bush 2.0.

Same agenda. Same BS.

He just got a free ride with about half as much opposition. So in that respect he is worse.

As far as values....people hate him for trying to change our values, not preserve them....

Obama sucks---