Israel admits Ethiopian women were given birth control shots

reply to post by Odium


I can survive in a desert. And Yes IQ tests are subjective. However, I will justify my statement with a little story. A buddy of mine builds HVAC systems for mines in Africa and all over the world. Some of these workers are given three weeks a year off to return to their tribes, visit family etc etc. When they return three to four weeks later a large number of them need to be retrained to do the same jobs they were previously doing.
Now while this is not the case with all the workers it is the case for enough of them to be tremendously noticeable.
Inbreeding is an intelligence killer.

Don't think it's a racist thing, I could point out parts of the USA inhabited solely by White people that are no smarter.

reply to post by FlyersFan

IF they were 'invited' (and you provided nothing showing that they were), that would change nothing. The immigration laws of the country still prevail. The invitation would have been made, with provisions. They would have been welcome to come but they would have to meet the requirements of the country they were moving into.

Of course they were invited. How many times has Benny been giving a speech to the UN or Congress and he says Israel is the home to every Jew. I must have not heard the part where he says only if you have qualifying paperwork.

That brings up a question with the way the holocaust happened and peoples paperwork and belongings were destroyed how are a lot of these Jews proving they are Jews?

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

You are so correct! (...on a lot of your posts, for that matter...) I have seen this sort of lie perpetuated for ages. This idea that these immigrants take jobs Americans won't is total BS.

I would say it is exaggerated, but that does not mean there is truth to the statement.

I live is Los Angeles, and I know a few guys who own their own landscaping companies, I also know a few guys who own landscaping and electrical repair companies in Arizona. All these guys are white, and their employees are probably about 80% Hispanic, when I asked them about this very issue, they all told me the same thing. They said, "for every one application we get from a white or black guy, we get 5 from guys who are from central or south america."

They told me that they hire them because they have better experience, they have better work ethic, they are always on time, and they never take days off.

Funny enough, they told me whenever they hire a guy who was born and raised in the states, he usually is not around for more than 3 months, because they always quit, or are fired.

Now regarding the OP, if Israels immigration policies demand you take a depo shot to get into the country, well thats BS, and yes it is discrimination if only one group or select groups of people are the only ones targeted.

reply to post by Openeye

What you say is incredibly true. My crew chief is from Mexico and has a green card. He has been with me for three years. His work ethic is incredible and I pay him well for the effort. I go through a dozen white boys a year.......
I once had to hire some guys from Home Depot to clean up some leach lines. The speed and precision at which they worked was enviable. I tried to toss a shovel alongside men ten years older than myself, and failed.

Say what you want about our Southern Neighbors, but I promise you there is not a white boy in the Country that will work as hard, or be as grateful for the paycheck.

Originally posted by Mamatus
reply to post by Odium

 

I can survive in a desert. And Yes IQ tests are subjective. However, I will justify my statement with a little story. A buddy of mine builds HVAC systems for mines in Africa and all over the world. Some of these workers are given three weeks a year off to return to their tribes, visit family etc etc. When they return three to four weeks later a large number of them need to be retrained to do the same jobs they were previously doing.
Now while this is not the case with all the workers it is the case for enough of them to be tremendously noticeable.
Inbreeding is an intelligence killer.

Don't think it's a racist thing, I could point out parts of the USA inhabited solely by White people that are no smarter.

This seems utterly off topic and I will come back to it after mentioning that if you took 50 Average Americans between the ages of 18-25 and sent them away for a 3 week vacation, you would have to re-train or re-fresh their training as well, especially if their lifestyles at home had no connection or relation to the work they did, i.e. a kid who works at a computer/IT company who goes off for 3 weeks will probably be using computers and internet while away, while an African working in a mine for example, isn't likely to be handling equipment and hauling rock at home. Yes definitely, Many Americans are just as slow but they are the product of "Box Raising", much the way Veal is raised.

This point having been made, every dog, cat, cow, horse, bird and domestic animal we have is the result of some direct or semi-direct Inbreeding but at some point recessive genes compound resulting in,for example, hip dialysis.

I suggest the issue of Birth Control in poor countries would be as well addressed by economics and lifestyles, as contraceptives, i.e. when and were the only thing there is to do is lay around and screw, there is going to be a birth control problem. However,if you are going to repress a people in poverty and slavery, some means of sterilization probably makes sense from a business point of view. That seem to be the goal in this country but that is a multi-pronged spike from appearances, involving many means for destroying the population chemically and morally.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

That was a condition for their immigration, they had a choice, they made it, they complained after the fact.

Well, I'm wondering if they were told look either be sterilized or don't bother immigrating here. I really do wonder how many people might feel, including Jewish people, who might be told the same thing. say if the tables were turned. and if they were coming to somewhere like America. Wouldn't we hear an outcry from the usual suspects?

On the original topic: I think what Israel is doing here is racist. I wonder how the Israelis would feel if the United States insisted on mandatory birth control for Hasidic Jews.

And a slight digression: Depo Provera, while a useful form of BC, can also have very serious side effects. Any chemical BC taken by a woman has the potential not only for side effects but for future negative changes, because they're all hormones. Shooting a woman full of hormones today can cause cancer 10 years from now.

So what I'd suggest is: Leave the women alone. However, any man who has fathered 2 or more children must undergo a vasectomy. Neat, simple, non-chemical birth control. And I suggest this not necessarily for Israel. I'm thinking .... let's do it in the USA. Anyone who's on public assistance who has fathered 2 or more children needs to be vasectomized.

Oh -- vasectomies aren't easily reversible? What a shame. But once you've fathered 2 or more children, you've already out-produced yourself, so why have more, particularly if you can't or won't support them?

Hence our commander in chiefs ideas about getting these folks integrated and I personally believe that they bring alot to our table as would anyone who had the right attitude and work ethic.

Ultimately though the issue of sterilization rises well above the jews in Israel and the Americans here in the US.
It is painfully obvious that very powerful groups seek the demise of all others within there own plans.

Is this done to everyone who immigrates to Israel or just blacks from Ethiopia? The answer to that question should tell you if it is racial discrimination or not.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
From what we have read, it is part of the immigration law that these people would have to be on birth control for a while. It is part of the agreement they make to become Israeli citizens. If someone agrees to this and becomes a citizen, and then changes their mind, they should have their citizenship stripped and they should go back to whatever hole they came from.

Thats fine and I don't have a problem with that, but what about if they didn't understand what was being put into their bodies? Its a communication failure between the Israelis and the women. They are saying they didn't know birth control was being used. Shouldn't the Israelis do everything in their power to make sure these people understand what was being put into their bodies?

IF a person enters the country and is LIED TO about this agreement .. that is different. Some people are claiming that they were lied to. If that's the case, then they should be told the rules and get a new chance to agree to them or to reject them and return to whatever country they came from.

Well I don't know if it was a lie but they didn't seem to understand why they were getting these injections every three months. It sounds like a communication issue or someone was doing it on purpose. It seems strange to say the least.

Originally posted by Strakha
Is this done to everyone who immigrates to Israel or just blacks from Ethiopia? The answer to that question should tell you if it is racial discrimination or not.

Your right. The answer to that question would shed some light on how Israel have been dealing with the immigration issue. Targeted birth control to me is racist.

Originally posted by Openeye
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

You are so correct! (...on a lot of your posts, for that matter...) I have seen this sort of lie perpetuated for ages. This idea that these immigrants take jobs Americans won't is total BS.

I would say it is exaggerated, but that does not mean there is truth to the statement.

I live is Los Angeles, and I know a few guys who own their own landscaping companies, I also know a few guys who own landscaping and electrical repair companies in Arizona. All these guys are white, and their employees are probably about 80% Hispanic, when I asked them about this very issue, they all told me the same thing. They said, "for every one application we get from a white or black guy, we get 5 from guys who are from central or south america."

They told me that they hire them because they have better experience, they have better work ethic, they are always on time, and they never take days off.

Funny enough, they told me whenever they hire a guy who was born and raised in the states, he usually is not around for more than 3 months, because they always quit, or are fired.

Now regarding the OP, if Israels immigration policies demand you take a depo shot to get into the country, well thats BS, and yes it is discrimination if only one group or select groups of people are the only ones targeted.

Well, more applications from a group doesn't mean they are the only ones interested. It simply means there are more of them in that place looking for work. As for work ethic? Depends on the person. In the same hotel with the racist Hispanic housekeeping head, I knew another fellow, also Hispanic, that was a very good employee, and one of the nicest people I have every had the pleasure to know. Very good friend, warm, caring, honest, decent. He didn't get along with the other one, either. Plus, a lot of people didn't bother to apply for those housekeeping jobs, simply because they were so overwhelmingly held by Hispanics, and people knew they would not be welcome. It's very possible that this was a factor for those you discuss as well. That isn't a slur against any race, either. As stated, I have known some that were great people. The fellow I mentioned above was one. Several others there were people I considered friends, as well. One of the nicest people I have known was a lady that came from Puerto Rico, and gained citizenship. Sweet as can be, and arguably one of the most patriotic Americans I have ever known. And, yes, some whites are really lazy workers. I am related to one like that. The issue here is more one of preserving the country for the citizens, and not allowing sweeping demographic changes through immigration (legal and illegal), that would most likely bring (as they have in other nations) drastic changes. People that want THIS country, like the lady I spoke of, great! Those that want to alter the nation, we can do without. If they don't like the country as it is, they should not immigrate to it. That goes for any country. Any people.

As for this case, it hasn't been proven that there was discrimination, and if there was, well, it is still their country. People can choose some other place to immigrate to, if they don't like the rules. I can't imagine deciding to move to some other nation, then telling them they had to change their laws for me. I also think, as stated in one post, that this has ore to do with beliefs than race.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Well thats a lie . Women who breed alot dont always suffer. I know of one woman where I live who has 12 children and no this isnt a lie. She is VERY healthy and extremely happy. Its what fullfills her. Between shes not below the poverty line, they seem to do quite well.

My point is those who do have more than 3 births can be absolutely healthy for a long time.
Infact my great grandmother had 9 children and she lived well until 98yrs.

Really they just needed to educate them .. abit but they didnt know how to approach the topic.

This is the issue people are so afraid of confronting culture differences. That they dont discuss how to integrate immigrants. They just fly them in, or open the borders and hope for the best. Really silly...

Well, good for her, but MOST that have that many do suffer physical effects. I know one that had six, and actually had the muscles of her abdomen separate. Not something they could fix, either. I know another that had five, and suffered various health issues from that. I know personally that the strain on the abdomen is real, especially if the births are CLOSE TOGETHER, which is the key. They didn't say multiple births, but too many births too close together. Nice try, ignoring that key point, to pretend that factual information any OB doc will tell you is somehow a "lie".

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
This is old news . It wasnt forced it was offered. Incidently, Im female and living in the UK and they do the same here they offer certain products and want you to chose some depending on your situation. They do give you options but when new forms of contraceptions come out you feel abit of a pressure.
I myself have had that contraceptive, its an injection with all contraceptions you feel there are some side effects but on the whole its fine. Its no big deal, really.

So I feel this is a good thing. Why should women just be breeding and breeding constantly? Seems silly.

I guess that goes for all women. Give them a break. Much better to have kids later in life than upon arrival into a foreign country.

So I dont see this as blackmail nor racism. Its merely trying to keep the numbers down for a while, until they establish themselves.

edit on 28-1-2013 by FreedomEntered because: (no reason given)

I agree, why would they want a child to feed if they can barley feed themselves??

Imagine the heartbreak of watching children starving all around you and not being able to prevent pregnancy???

I could not afford another child right now and I am in canada!

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Well thats a lie . Women who breed alot dont always suffer. I know of one woman where I live who has 12 children and no this isnt a lie. She is VERY healthy and extremely happy. Its what fullfills her. Between shes not below the poverty line, they seem to do quite well.

My point is those who do have more than 3 births can be absolutely healthy for a long time.
Infact my great grandmother had 9 children and she lived well until 98yrs.

Really they just needed to educate them .. abit but they didnt know how to approach the topic.

This is the issue people are so afraid of confronting culture differences. That they dont discuss how to integrate immigrants. They just fly them in, or open the borders and hope for the best. Really silly...

That is a wonderful story but who feeds or should I say who pays for those 14 people to eat, clothed, medical treatments, and housing? I was not planning on children since the US Army (I was damaged n fixing could lead to sterilization) found before op that I had no swimmers. LOL in my entire life over 30 + sperm not a single swimmer but when my wife was in a family way everyone including the docs lol claimed she cheated.... Both girls have some of my traits n looks ergo no questions there. Point is I panicked as I lived in Marin County where DINKIES was invented along with BMW = Basic Marin Wheels (thanks Herb Caan Miss U) I was the poorest of my friends but a professional never the less. My wife by American standards never made it to high school as she (English) got out of school at 16! NO qualifications. I knew that and was willing to have a lower life standards as a result of knowing she will never be gainfully employed! I did not expect the Burden of children. Being a survivor of child abuse on horrible levels I did not want kids so being sterile was not a problem for me. Army Docs could not understand that. Point is I worked two business for 5 years and continued with the most successful. You are your worse boss when you work for your self supporting them, wifes parents and Gparents since we moved to the UK when wifes Mom died. I worked to disability. Now I am retired.

Not a happy life but I paid our way. Only 1 question why do I have to pay high taxes almost $9 - 10 per gal, 20% sales tax on items that have short life (unlike America) ie we are on our 6th washing machine in less that 29 years my Moms is still going in Washington at 40 years and the list goes on and on...... where does our taxes go? I saw a chap complaining to West Country news last week angry to the fact that the council who gives him n his breeder wife who has 8 kids with another on their way a three bedroom house but not a larger house! They have a 3 bedroom house and want the taxpayers er ah his words the council to build a purpose built house to suit his breeding habits. He complained when a council member suggested that he had enough children he cannot support! Where does this breeder think the council receives their money from?

So why me a hard working person worried about having enough for children and I am grateful for having the second child so my first born had a playmate I did not have growing up, pay for someone who is happy staying home breeding like an alley cat with no worries?

WHO IS PAYING FOR THOSE LIFE NEEDED ITEMS OUTLINED IN 1st Para?

PS marg6043, FlyersFan and LadyGreenEyes Stars to YOU!

I don't see this as a bad thing at all, although as stated it was offered not forced. The bottom line is, many Africans live in poverty and if we take Ethiopia as an example, I believe its roughly 35 million living below the poverty line in a country with a population of near on 85 million. Now those 35 million will not be poor in the Western sense of being on food vouchers or a mass of benefits, these will be people without food and living in a shack. However, there are no social care systems in Ethiopia, so again, much like most of Africa, people will have kids so that the kids can grow up and look after them. Family looking after family is very big throughout Africa and rightly so. So you're left with an issue of an increasing number of babies born in to poverty by families who feel that they have to have children in order to survive. What do you do? There is no easy solution, the governments of such countries need to be held accountable and forced to put in place systems that need to look after their people, rather than rely on Western help. Ethiopia is one of the fastest growing economies in Africa, yet 16% of the population live on less than a dollar a day, while 65% of the rural population consume the bare minimum of food intake and most that are below the poverty line live and sleep in the same shelter as their livestock.

You could pump trillions of cash and aid in to Ethiopia and throughout Africa, especially Sub-Saharan Africa and we would still have the exact same issues. I don't believe that offering birth control to a country whose population is set to hit over 200 million by 2060 is a bad thing, but like I say, its not that easy for the people on the ground.

It's funny how Israel believes that their country is worth keeping pure, yet they actively take part in pro-immigration lobbies in Europe. They have their own groups in places like Norway, Sweden, Germany and a slew of others to do nothing more then to promote massive immigration.

It's a case of "It's not good for the gander, just for the goose".

I'd also like to see the worlds outcry should Sweden do something similar.

This is wrong only if it was forced or they were misinformed. I dont see conclusive evidence that this is the case.

Offering birth control selectively to Ethiopians is not racism. It is based on nationality, not race. Every country does discriminate based on nationality when it comes to immigration policies, and thats how it should be.

Originally posted by IceHappy
That is a wonderful story but who feeds or should I say who pays for those 14 people to eat, clothed, medical treatments, and housing? *snip*

So why me a hard working person worried about having enough for children and I am grateful for having the second child so my first born had a playmate I did not have growing up, pay for someone who is happy staying home breeding like an alley cat with no worries?

WHO IS PAYING FOR THOSE LIFE NEEDED ITEMS OUTLINED IN 1st Para?

PS marg6043, FlyersFan and LadyGreenEyes Stars to YOU!

edit on 1/29/2013 by IceHappy because: fixed "ergo no questions their." to ergo no questions there.

That's a very good question! Most cases like that, the family is receiving AID, meaning tax money. If they are not, then good for them, but every time I hear of such a large family (modern days, not in the past), there is welfare involved. Still remember the woman with 15 kids (12 living with he) that blamed the system for her financial problems, claiming they should offer her more support.

link

I have five (four at home), but WE support them, no welfare. Isn't easy, these days, thanks to a certain jerk making everything twice as expensive, but we do it ourselves. Plus, as a mother of several, I KNOW how straining on one's health that can be. Too many, too close together, is a real health issue, and that is what these Ethiopian women were told. Hence, of course, the claim that it isn't true, and I was "lying" when I stated the very real health issues. Star for you as well. Those taxes....WOW! Can sympathize, but you have it worse than we do (for now!).

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People who can't read should be permanently sterilized then

" some were intimidated or threatened into taking the injection"
"They told us they are inoculations"
"We took it every three months.
even though We said we didn't want to."

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