Why Do You Need an AR or AK?

reply to post by xEphon


The agenda to disarm comes in the form of incremental banning. That should be obvious. Look at other countries.
They ban "assault" rifles, knowing full well that they only account for 2 - 4 percent of gun crime. Then when that doesn't stop the next attack, or slow gun crime, rather than re access their approach they will come after all semi- auto weapons. This might take 15 more years, might take 25 or 50 years, but what is that in the grand scheme of things? Likely thought it will happen in a much more rapid succession than that.

It's worth noting that the UK lost their semi auto rifles in 89, then lost their handguns in 96, and were left with only bolt actions and shotguns (of course in 2010 there was a massacre using only bolts and a shotgun and the full repercussions of that may not be seen yet). It's similar with Australians. The gun control crowd there are after the people's bolt actions currently (after already getting their semi-autos after a shooting there).
I think Americans will fight it more, and so it may take longer, but it is obviously much easier and possible than most people would expect.

Originally posted by Darkphoenix77

Originally posted by Matt1951
I understand the OP point. However, no civilian needs an AK47 or AR15. Jeff Cooper wrote for many years - bolt action worked best. An AR is good for laying down suppressive fire for the Army in combat. This has no application for survivalists. One shot, one hit is the key. Not spray and pray.

How many times does it have to be said that AR's are 1 shot 1 kill? AR=semi automatic AK=automatic and burst.

I pretty sure there is a semi-auto variant of both the ak-47 and ak-74 either assembled in the states or imported from russia. I do not recall the names. Lets not forget the ar-15 is the semi-auto variant of the m-16 and the ar-17 is a variant of another automatic military firearm.

As for bump-firing I cannot comprehend how this is allowed and/or legal given that automatics made after 1987 have been banned. It is a felony punishable by jailtime up to 10 years! I guess they judge guns by the sear installed rather than any other insidious techniques/loopholes.

Originally posted by Dephyle
reply to post by Narcissous

 

As a service member in the United States military, this post angered me enough to dust off the old account that's laid dormant for over a year. Narcissous, I don't claim to know where you're from, nor anything else about you, save for a severe ignorance. You certainly have the right to dislike the American military, believe it or not, we fight for you to have that right, no matter where you're from. We defend freedom and democracy around the world, and no, that isn't just some propaganda. My brothers and sisters, in arms and of blood, sacrifice more than someone who hasn't been in the military could grasp on a daily basis.

Now, all that said, I'm not posting a response to badmouth, belittle, or beg sympathy of you. My one and only request is that you refrain from comparisons between us and Nazis. We don't go to countries to invade in the sense that Nazis invaded. We never invaded for the sake of expanding our country, nor do we commit the atrocities of the Nazis.

Hell, since I'm here I may as well post on subject. The OP was eloquently stated and entirely true. You might not need to defend your family today or tomorrow, but, it doesn't exactly take a savant to assume that one day, you may need to. Future government, military, domestic terrorists or foreign may one day knock at your door. Do you want to ask them not to hurt you or do you want to tell them not to hurt you? Personally, I'd die to ensure that never occurs, but, at the end of the day you are the only one charged with your own well being.

What planet have you been on the last 20 years?? Do you STILL believe the official FAIRYTALE of what transpired on 9-11-2001 in the usa? If that is the case then I can see why you believe INVADING FOREIGN COUNTRIES is righteous rather than cowardice(which is really the case).

He was not attacking the usa military, he was attacking the usa government CORRUPT FOREIGN POLICY based on BS! What the usa is doing now is no different to what great britain, france, spain, portugal, holland did in the previous centuries. It is called corporate imperialism, the oldies called it colonialism. Nothing changes in some ways because the masses are misinformed of true history. What they teach in schools to a large degree is plagued with misinformation. The winners write history. You are trying to say america has not committed war crimes by using depleted uranium artillery shells? Bush and company did not lie about weapons of mass destruction that iraq had when in reality they had trace amounts of chemical weapons given to them by nato itself?

I hate the american government but am proud to be an american, just like canadians are proud to be canadians and mexicans are proud to be mexicans. The government is composed of career beauracrats and elected officials that oversee the operations. I do not like democrats or republicans running the government. They are big business shills who create or exploit global instability for their buddies gain. The people always lose. The military-industrial complex is americas worst OWN ENEMY! I wish people would get this through their thick skulls. USA spends 10 times more for its military than the 2nd most powerful military nation called russia!!!!!!!!!!!

I get so pissed when I see ignorant people who confuse defending their corrupt government to supporting the usa military. The decision makers are to blame, much like the BP assholes that wanted to save money with the BOP and ended up #ing polluting the entire gulf of mexico. What blame can be given to the workers on that oil rig? NONE!

reply to post by Narcissous


Just so you know.....The United States of America is not a Democracy it is a Republic. Ruled by law and that law is The United States Constitution.

TPTB have been playing the "democracy" tune since Pres. W. Wilson. In the hopes they can brainwash Americans into believing it matters what the "majority" thinks or says about individual rights.

It is amazing to see so many people, even very intelligent people fooled. The United States was the most powerful country in the world in every measure. Everybody wanted what we had. With our wealth we became too obesed with material things, the newest gadget and the biggest SUV. In the meantime, food was too convient so we became fat and lazy sitting in front of our big screen TVs.

While we weren't looking the leftist entered into several anti-cultural, anti-American, anti-religous campaigns and most of them got through. Then we were charmed by the biggest snake oil salesman ever, during a time when we bad an uunpopular president. He was completely unvetted and probably went to Harvard as an Kenyan exchange student. You can thank the power elites for that.

The end game is to weaken the US and the EU so much, that neither would stand in the way of the NWO. We are being drown in impossible debt, polarized by race, class and polical party and militarily weakened.The gun debate plays exactly to their plans. They want us to arm up so we can kill each other so they don't have to do it when we collapse financially.

Why do you think there has been no budget for the last 4 years, going 5 years? So they spend like drunken sailors with no accountability. Why are they letting gays and women in the military? Coupled with mandatory budget cuts, it will fall apart slowly. How did a obvious habitual liar that failed at everything win a second term?
By elite sponsored voter fraud on a mass scale.

The end in near and it will be PAINFUL. Good luck.

In reply to the OPs titled question, I dont have much use for an AR. But my father on the other hand has a duty to protect himself and his deckhands from any foriegn or domestic enemies. Hes a tug boat captain who travels the Gulf and must stay on guard for any pirates who may feel that they want whatever they can get their filthy hands on.

Originally posted by murphy22
reply to post by xEphon

 

You are right, people are "under that idea." Can you give a reason why they should think otherwise?

History tells us, for those that will listen, what evil men do when given a little bit of authority.

Here is the deal: When you have folks that swear "to uphold and defend..." something and then they feverishly work at altering the very document they swore to defend, well, that raises eyebrows on some of us.

1.They have already shown they can't be trusted with our money... Why would you trust them with your freedom/life? They have put our children in debt before they are even born! They can be trusted with our welfare?

2. They have openly stated the COTUS is an "archaic" document. The COTUS gives them every and all the powers necessary to govern the nation. They don't like being bound by the laws therein. That raises eyebrows....

What I don't get is why people wish to put their life and freedoms in the hands of majority elected people. Hitler was democraticaly elected....... The majotity may have been wrong there, I'm just thinking.

I personally question anyone that wishes to control me.

edit on 28-1-2013 by murphy22 because: added a line

The media forms all opinions. People don't have the time or energy to think for themselves. It is the 9 to 5 work, watch mass media, eat, #, take a shower, go to sleep(maybe have sex), wake up and start all over again. People work and work and have if they are lucky 1 or 2 days to rest and recoup. It is called the rat race, it gets tiring and exhausting. Rinse and repeat till you reach 65 years of age to retire, maybe live another 20-30 years and let your childrent take over.

Not saying people should be lazy, but materialism is the best distraction and it lines the pocket of the shareholders, who then use part of that money to lobby against you and your unions, to make you poorer and more stupid. You work for them, make them rich, get tired in the process and you are still considered a fool. I don't see the overhyped freedom in that. Communism, everyone working for the state and going to jail if you don't work is not the answer either.

I would check out masonry, illuminati, reptillians, david icke, alex jones, etc.

Originally posted by Darkphoenix77

Originally posted by Matt1951
I understand the OP point. However, no civilian needs an AK47 or AR15. Jeff Cooper wrote for many years - bolt action worked best. An AR is good for laying down suppressive fire for the Army in combat. This has no application for survivalists. One shot, one hit is the key. Not spray and pray.

How many times does it have to be said that AR's are 1 shot 1 kill? AR=semi automatic AK=automatic and burst

If you don't know the facts then learn, because the last thing this country needs is more ignorant people with opinions about things they do not understand!

Edit: Sorry if it seems I am coming down personally on you, I'm not. I just want people to be informed before they form opinions on things that will alter the future of this country, quite possibly very near future.

That being said, yes I am aware there are bump slide mods, that make an AR damn close to being automatic. They are notorious for jamming and I heard they kick the s**t out of your AR physically (maybe someone knowledgeable can U2U me to inform me if that is true or not). If anything needs regulation I would say that maybe those mods are fair game. Only to bring those mods in line with how difficult it is to get a full auto. weapon currently which is very expensive and not easy for a normal civilian to get. Not to mention that civilians can really only own outdated automatic weapons legally which are of course in used condition.

No semi automatic guns should be banned period, end of story. Is it any wonder how alarmed people are with how much of a power grab the government seems to be pushing for in a very short amount of time?

Those who willingly take other peoples rights in the name of security, deserve neither.

edit on 28-1-2013 by Darkphoenix77 because: EDIT

You missed the point. I am well aware of the difference between a semi-auto an a full auto. Read Jeff Cooper and you will learn.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by Darkphoenix77

Originally posted by Matt1951
I understand the OP point. However, no civilian needs an AK47 or AR15. Jeff Cooper wrote for many years - bolt action worked best. An AR is good for laying down suppressive fire for the Army in combat. This has no application for survivalists. One shot, one hit is the key. Not spray and pray.

How many times does it have to be said that AR's are 1 shot 1 kill? AR=semi automatic AK=automatic and burst.

I pretty sure there is a semi-auto variant of both the ak-47 and ak-74 either assembled in the states or imported from russia. I do not recall the names. Lets not forget the ar-15 is the semi-auto variant of the m-16 and the ar-17 is a variant of another automatic military firearm.

As for bump-firing I cannot comprehend how this is allowed and/or legal given that automatics made after 1987 have been banned. It is a felony punishable by jailtime up to 10 years! I guess they judge guns by the sear installed rather than any other insidious techniques/loopholes.

Well regardless, the premise is the same, I am tired of explaining that semi automatic is 1 bullet per trigger pull and that is exactly what they are trying to ban. Tired of people thinking that "it's no big deal because they are only going after the 'pray and spray' guns" when that is downright false. Full automatics are already regulated to the point that you not only gotta have lots of $$, but also have the "permission" of the government to even own an old outdated one.

You missed the point. I am well aware of the difference between a semi-auto an a full auto. Read Jeff Cooper and you will learn.

No I didn't miss the point, bolt actions are good weapons, but that does not justify the banning of any weapons. I restate:

No semi automatic guns should be banned period, end of story.

If they want to ban something useful, they should ban inaugural campaign lobbying, but NOOOOO that makes to much sense to anyone that is NOT a politician!

reply to post by Darkphoenix77


I fully agree with what you say but don't expect to beat mass media brainwashing in 1 day, 1 week or 1 month.

The fact the government has to lie about stuff to achieve anything speaks volumes.

I need a high powered high capacity assault rifle cause I want one . In Australia and Canada you cant have one or no simi auto . In the UK and Europe they can't have one or much of anything else . But all they want to do is to fight each other in Europe I almost understand it .
The funny thing is that the UK had a couple of mass shootings and right after gun legislation's . Now right after the UN push to ban guns we have a suspicious school shooting where the facts are hard to find and someone else in camo leaving the area but not a person of interest . Some one wanted to make sure that there were no witnesses and then the AR 15 was found locked in the trunk of the car and only pistols in the class room per 2 Fed Investigators . Strangely similar aren't they .

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by Darkphoenix77

 

I fully agree with what you say but don't expect to beat mass media brainwashing in 1 day, 1 week or 1 month.

The fact the government has to lie about stuff to achieve anything speaks volumes.

If only it were that simple lol

I just get frustrated at the fact that you can argue a point with irrefutable logic and some people still can't grasp it or downright ignore logic that throws a wrench into thier ideologies.

Originally posted by Darkphoenix77

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by Darkphoenix77

 

I fully agree with what you say but don't expect to beat mass media brainwashing in 1 day, 1 week or 1 month.

The fact the government has to lie about stuff to achieve anything speaks volumes.

If only it were that simple lol

I just get frustrated at the fact that you can argue a point with irrefutable logic and some people still can't grasp it or downright ignore logic that throws a wrench into thier ideologies.

edit on 28-1-2013 by Darkphoenix77 because: (no reason given)

Not only are they lying about what "assualt weapons" are but they don't seem too interested in banning sliding stocks that cause bump firing in those semi-autos that essentially DO make them automatic. I mean what sense does legislation make if you are not willing to go after the loopholes?

Automatic firearms should NOT be banned in the first place, but they should be tougher to acquire. In addition to the normal background checks done by the state and federal authorities, states that allow automatic firearms should REQUIRE the applicant to FIRST complete an automatic firearms course and PASS IT. Get that certificate THEN buy the automatic firearm.

Also there should be no concealed carry permits. It boils down to another TAX ON PERMISSION granted by authority to carry a firearm. If you pass all the background checks and any other relative certificates earned then that should be it. I think it is ridiculous that the state assumes you want a gun only for hunting or leisure shooting.

Originally posted by Narcissous
reply to post by Darkphoenix77

 

well, at least you have your guns. Or at least, if you will not have them in the future, you will be able to say we could have a gun.
I mean, where I live, there hasnt been any civilian gun ownership for the last 150 years. things kind of look terrible.
In my opinion, civilians have the same rights to guns as the military or law enforcement.(because gun ownership of police forces also stems from the right to defend ones life)
Nobody tried to enforce bronze swords when iron was in. That would have been stupid. And handicapping ownership to pre 1980 is also stupid. I am kind of sure that a trained guy with a scoped kar98 can easily chuck the odd last man on earth who has an AR, am I not right?,

But there are laws of the funny kind. for example, where I come from(not actually come from, because I am stuck here) gun ownership for self defense is restricted to politicians, judges, CEOs, bankers, millionaires, heads of corporations, and if there is any history of you ever making a negative comment about how the system works, you cant own guns. Also, the government can say how many people are allowed to own guns(for sporting purposes)
But it gets funnier.
Imagine a guy wants to steal your stuff. He climbs thru the fence, his trousers get stuck in the pointy things on top, falls over, knocks his head in, dies. That is like five years for manslaughter for you.
Also you cant use force which extends the force used against you. Even if someone breaks into your home with a gun, you cant shoot them, or mow them down with an axe, because technically, all they did was hold a gun like object, and you were the villain by viciously attacking them
Actually, there is not much mucking about going on. If you were alive at a crime scene where a murder took place, usually they just arrest you and everyone who is there.
if you are interested, a break in is a property violation which has a max of 2 years.
Basically, the victim is bound to end up worse than the criminal, whatever happens.

Just in case you wondered what happens when they take your guns away. When there is nobody around to watch the watchmen.

Funny you would think that since there is no one left armed that the government itself wouldn't have to be.

Bill

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by Darkphoenix77

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by Darkphoenix77

 

I fully agree with what you say but don't expect to beat mass media brainwashing in 1 day, 1 week or 1 month.

The fact the government has to lie about stuff to achieve anything speaks volumes.

If only it were that simple lol

I just get frustrated at the fact that you can argue a point with irrefutable logic and some people still can't grasp it or downright ignore logic that throws a wrench into thier ideologies.

edit on 28-1-2013 by Darkphoenix77 because: (no reason given)

Not only are they lying about what "assualt weapons" are but they don't seem too interested in banning sliding stocks that cause bump firing in those semi-autos that essentially DO make them automatic. I mean what sense does legislation make if you are not willing to go after the loopholes?

Automatic firearms should NOT be banned in the first place, but they should be tougher to acquire. In addition to the normal background checks done by the state and federal authorities, states that allow automatic firearms should REQUIRE the applicant to FIRST complete an automatic firearms course and PASS IT. Get that certificate THEN buy the automatic firearm.

Also there should be no concealed carry permits. It boils down to another TAX ON PERMISSION granted by authority to carry a firearm. If you pass all the background checks and any other relative certificates earned then that should be it. I think it is ridiculous that the state assumes you want a gun only for hunting or leisure shooting.

They don't care about bump and slide mods because they think they can get the whole shebang. Anyone that actually looks at the bill can see how ridiculous it is. It specifically names a certain number of firearms but people don't understand it also says any firearm which shares any characteristics with the named ones. It also says any firearm that can accept a folding stock, pistol grip, etc. etc. etc is also banned regardless of make. When you read between the lines it is not the under 200 firearms they claim are banned but literally thousands. Not to mention banning magazines of more than 9 rounds literally makes a whole new subset of firearms "banned" without actually being "banned". Instead of proposing legislation that may actually help the situation they are intent on passing laws that will damage the Constitution as much as humanly possible without an all out revolution (i.e. as much as they can while keeping average joe oblivious).

Why are they not talking about truth in sentencing if they are so concerned about curbing violence? They will say that the prisons are overpopulated and that would exacerbate the situation, but the truth is that if they stopped jailing people for stupid reasons (non violent crimes with no victims I am sure most people know the ones I mean) they would not have prison overpopulation to begin with. That is the kind of person they really despise, they don't like people with real solutions, only the ones who mindlessly agree with whatever they are told.

Did Timothey McVeigh have a military need to attack the FBI building ... yes the actions at Waco showed him that the FBI had attacked civilians using military equipment and that was not proportional .

I think people would have to be more creative than semi autos when homeland security forces come rolling up to their houses in armoured personal carriers. Tactics used against us in vietnam and the middle east would be something to be interested in, if it gets that bad.

Bill

Originally posted by Camperguy


Did Timothey McVeigh have a military need to attack the FBI building ... yes the actions at Waco showed him that the FBI had attacked civilians using military equipment and that was not proportional .

I think people would have to be more creative than semi autos when homeland security forces come rolling up to their houses in armoured personal carriers. Tactics used against us in vietnam and the middle east would be something to be interested in, if it gets that bad.

Bill

edit on 28-1-2013 by Camperguy because: repost

Hoping we don't have to find out what tactics are necessary (McVeigh was a nutball, sorry it is the way I see it). In that scenario there is no right, and there are no winners, certain lines should never be crossed in the name of "winning".

reply to post by Darkphoenix77


The war on drugs, the war on guns and the war on terror are perpetual wars based on lies inorder to keep non-elite undesirables out of the equation. Use sensationalism to create fear, then use fear to regulate. This regulation creates a black market with certain folks being above the law and using their immunity as a guaranteed monopoly to get even richer.

Sure some things should be legal and some should be illegal. I avoid being a hypocrite as much as possible but it is also easy to see why some things work and some things do not work. I don't have all the necessary answers because I am not in the loop to know the inner workings. I can only speculate with basic knowledge aka common sense.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by Darkphoenix77

 

The war on drugs, the war on guns and the war on terror are perpetual wars based on lies inorder to keep non-elite undesirables out of the equation. Use sensationalism to create fear, then use fear to regulate. This regulation creates a black market with certain folks being above the law and using their immunity as a guaranteed monopoly to get even richer.

Sure some things should be legal and some should be illegal. I avoid being a hypocrite as much as possible but it is also easy to see why some things work and some things do not work. I don't have all the necessary answers because I am not in the loop to know the inner workings. I can only speculate with basic knowledge aka common sense.

When it comes to politics it seems common sense is not so common these days lol Also, you are right hypocritical people make me sick. I've always lived by the motto that what is fair for the goose is fair for the gander.