Why Do You Need an AR or AK?

reply to post by hypervigilant

OOOOH,they're gonna jump you on that.No doubt insulting us all .....again.

I think it would depend on the use which would be best. Training makes the decision irrelevant.

reply to post by MikeNice81


My skills are only relevant insofar that they may be used against you.

You need to know what you would face in a street fight with uniformed personnel.

In this context a 6 shooter and a hunting rifle will do you little good. What I'm trying to get you people to see isn't my ability to use a weapon, it is the potential of these skills to be used against you.

My fear is that Americans are losing perspective on this. The danger here is a skilled standing Army which, in the future, could give its allegiance to something other than the Constitution. Someone in particular rather than the people as a whole. The way things are going, I see this as a very real possibility.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by projectvxn

 

Our government has already proven they can force our military to fire on American civilians. They already did the unthinkable at Kent State during the Vietnam protests.

This isn't the Vietnam era. No one, not soldiers or the people at large exist in an information vacuum.

reply to post by projectvxn


we need them to shoot straighter than our enemy who is trying to kill us until there is no enemy but peace. we need them for all purposes that a gun would entail. benevolence shall prevail because many men and women already know how to use these arms already. in china, they defang cobras before making food out of them. i do not wish to become sustenance for a globalist army. i hope that enough of the us military learns proper benevolence. those who wish to abuse their military power, they will be forgotten, or remembered as plagues to humanity. in terms of training, let your plans be as dark as night, then strike like a thunderbolt

reply to post by Narcissous


As a service member in the United States military, this post angered me enough to dust off the old account that's laid dormant for over a year. Narcissous, I don't claim to know where you're from, nor anything else about you, save for a severe ignorance. You certainly have the right to dislike the American military, believe it or not, we fight for you to have that right, no matter where you're from. We defend freedom and democracy around the world, and no, that isn't just some propaganda. My brothers and sisters, in arms and of blood, sacrifice more than someone who hasn't been in the military could grasp on a daily basis.

Now, all that said, I'm not posting a response to badmouth, belittle, or beg sympathy of you. My one and only request is that you refrain from comparisons between us and Nazis. We don't go to countries to invade in the sense that Nazis invaded. We never invaded for the sake of expanding our country, nor do we commit the atrocities of the Nazis.

Hell, since I'm here I may as well post on subject. The OP was eloquently stated and entirely true. You might not need to defend your family today or tomorrow, but, it doesn't exactly take a savant to assume that one day, you may need to. Future government, military, domestic terrorists or foreign may one day knock at your door. Do you want to ask them not to hurt you or do you want to tell them not to hurt you? Personally, I'd die to ensure that never occurs, but, at the end of the day you are the only one charged with your own well being.

reply to post by Dephyle


Sir, if I had a nickel for every time I was called a Nazi I would have at least $2000 in nickels.

There are some that have managed to completely miss the point of this thread. That is fine by me. From the vast majority of responses, I think I drove my point home.

reply to post by projectvxn


This isn't the Vietnam era. No one, not soldiers or the people at large exist in an information vacuum.

Try Googling sheeple.


I believe you'd be suprised at how many folks honestly have no clue.

Welcome to the land of American Idol, the Superbowl, and Facebook!!

Originally posted by projectvxn
I'm going to be completely honest here. I am the reason you need an 'assault' rifle. I am a highly trained and expert marksman in the US Army. With the badges on my ERB to prove it. I am an expert in pistol, rifle, and machine gun use and aerial gunnery .

I am trained in breaching tactics, hand to hand combat, force on force, and have the best equipment your tax dollars can buy. I belong to the most advanced and lethal military force the world has ever known and while I am a man of principles and take my oath to the Constitution seriously, there is no telling what future generations of soldiers will think and believe...If they do at all.

You should not, under any circumstances question my ability to wreak utter destruction upon the enemy. Myself and every soldier, airman , marine, sailor, and coast guardsman are more than capable of destroying the enemy. Whether it's the taliban or a modern and cohesive military force.

The founders of this great nation warned of the dangers of tyrants and the standing Armies they command. The second amendment is and shall always be a testament to their foresight. While I do not believe that todays military could be used in such a manner, what about tomorrows? Things in this country are changing. Beliefs are changing. I see a quantifiable tendency toward ever increasing state and military power, and with that a more collectivist and power hungry form of politics that essentially forces people to choose between the proverbial "lesser of two evils". I see these changes, not just in politics and the media, but in much of our society...Quite frankly, it scares the hell out of me.

The notion that some have that the threat of tyranny is a bygone fear of generations long past is ignorance at best. How anyone can look at the changes I've seen and not see the clear and present dangers to our freedoms, especially since 9/11, is beyond me. I am not a "Truther", but you don't have to be one to see the litany of attacks on our liberties since the Patriot Act was passed. The last 12 years have seen enormous changes in how government and the people express the relationship between them. I don't believe that relationship is what the founders intended, nor is it what the American people really want.

The powergrabs by government have many people concerned. Including people like me. And if I'm worried, should you be too? Why would we trust government that has used that trust to enrich its members and corporate cronies, and for the accretion of ever more power, with the stewardship of our safety? Safety, as well as Liberty will always be the responsibility of the people...The individual, dare I say it. To abdicate that responsibility to government is asking for abuse. Maybe not today. But tomorrow? Do you have that answer? Because I don't.

Whether liberal or conservative or libertarian or anarchist or communist, don't let there be a moment in our history where there was no one left to speak for you. Speak with one American voice.

edit on 26-1-2013 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

Marine vet here; I agree, and solid post brother. S+F

reply to post by freedom12


yes the net that ensnares the unwitting anchovies. i am glad to be in my octopus cave

reply to post by projectvxn


Haha sad but true. Though, I'd love to see "Called-A-Nazi Allotment" on my LES.

It really is sad to see something that was important enough to our founding fathers that they made it the 2nd thing they enacted in the Bill of Rights, yet many Americans not only don't take advantage of it, they want it repealed in a lot of cases.

reply to post by Darkphoenix77


well, at least you have your guns. Or at least, if you will not have them in the future, you will be able to say we could have a gun.
I mean, where I live, there hasnt been any civilian gun ownership for the last 150 years. things kind of look terrible.
In my opinion, civilians have the same rights to guns as the military or law enforcement.(because gun ownership of police forces also stems from the right to defend ones life)
Nobody tried to enforce bronze swords when iron was in. That would have been stupid. And handicapping ownership to pre 1980 is also stupid. I am kind of sure that a trained guy with a scoped kar98 can easily chuck the odd last man on earth who has an AR, am I not right?

But there are laws of the funny kind. for example, where I come from(not actually come from, because I am stuck here) gun ownership for self defense is restricted to politicians, judges, CEOs, bankers, millionaires, heads of corporations, and if there is any history of you ever making a negative comment about how the system works, you cant own guns. Also, the government can say how many people are allowed to own guns(for sporting purposes)
But it gets funnier.
Imagine a guy wants to steal your stuff. He climbs thru the fence, his trousers get stuck in the pointy things on top, falls over, knocks his head in, dies. That is like five years for manslaughter for you.
Also you cant use force which extends the force used against you. Even if someone breaks into your home with a gun, you cant shoot them, or mow them down with an axe, because technically, all they did was hold a gun like object, and you were the villain by viciously attacking them
Actually, there is not much mucking about going on. If you were alive at a crime scene where a murder took place, usually they just arrest you and everyone who is there.
if you are interested, a break in is a property violation which has a max of 2 years.
Basically, the victim is bound to end up worse than the criminal, whatever happens.

Just in case you wondered what happens when they take your guns away. When there is nobody around to watch the watchmen.

reply to post by freedom12


I can't say I disagree.

But the sparks that light patriotic fires are usually very strong and bright.

A "shot heard around the world" moment is what it takes.

Excellent thread, OP, and thank-you for your service. ^_^

oddpenguin

Originally posted by Narcissous
reply to post by Darkphoenix77

 

well, at least you have your guns. Or at least, if you will not have them in the future, you will be able to say we could have a gun.
I mean, where I live, there hasnt been any civilian gun ownership for the last 150 years. things kind of look terrible.
In my opinion, civilians have the same rights to guns as the military or law enforcement.(because gun ownership of police forces also stems from the right to defend ones life)
Nobody tried to enforce bronze swords when iron was in. That would have been stupid. And handicapping ownership to pre 1980 is also stupid. I am kind of sure that a trained guy with a scoped kar98 can easily chuck the odd last man on earth who has an AR, am I not right?

Just in case you wondered what happens when they take your guns away. When there is nobody around to watch the watchmen.

First let me say that you did come down kinda hard on the OP, but I believe you realize that you were being unjustly critical of the way he presented his post and I applaud you for admitting as such, having done that I respect you because it takes a good man to admit that.

Second, I am sorry for the state you are currently find yourself in the country that you reside in. Nobody no matter what country you are from deserves to be treated as a second class citizen or peasant for lack of a better word. I would say that our country is beginning to slide dangerously close to full on oppression of anyone not in the top 5% wealth wise. It is a backwards world we live in when a criminal gets better treatment than a victim.

Until humankind gets over the animalistic need to dominate over others, guns will forever be necessary and always needed for defense. As long as there are people willing to kill you to take whatever possessions you own, guns will be necessary. As long as people are elitist, guns will be needed.

Until all the above changes--guns ARE necessary for those who wish to be/remain free!!

reply to post by Dephyle


You do not defend democracy. You impose it upon others who have not asked. I certainly do not want anything near as subtle and vicious at my doorstep as democracy, but if I ever spoke up about it, I am sure you would be here to showel it down my throat.
I have nothing but respect for those who defend their country, but when they(you) start bumping off their own dictators to replace them with someone of your own, someone who will sell the national resources at a discount, or just generally making a ruckus to profit from...Well that is a thing. But when you start calling it international justice, or peacekeeping, promoting democracy, exporting freedom, bringing security...that starts to grind my gears.

Okay. No namecalling stuff. Well, just let me ask you this. What is really the difference between the two?
They had black boots and swastikas, and you have nike sneakers and smiley faces(George Carlin)
-Merging of political and corporate power.
-Increases in government spending.
-Extending the law enforcement powers.
-Increasing numbers of pointless regulations(raw milk for example)
-Mindless sheeple chanting YES WE CAN, and U-S-A(you know, instead of two syllable stuff like Sieg Heil!)
-Governmentized healthcare.
-Popularization of eugenicist views.
-Removing religion from school(although with this, I kind of quite agree with)
-Constant paranoia.
-Overpopped prisons.
-Gun Control!

You really should look up nazis closely. 60 years of hollywood indoctrination made sure that few of us can look at it and say: that still could happen.

But if there is still something you need to believe, Google:
Japanese Americans 1942, or
Operation Paperclip.

While I was typing this up, I realized it is truly inappropriate to liken USA to nazi Germany. It is more akin to the Roman Empire. That probably does not carry that much negative associations with it, I hope.

P.S.: I am probably the most anti-gun control person on Earth, so this *you are the only one charged with your own well being* thing is not new to me. So I would love to own a gun.(me dad promised one before he disappeared) Half me arm for a rifle, right. They are, however, banned here. For the sake of democracy.

Oh, also, If you are interested in why I so adamantly oppose democracy, drop a u2u to me, and Ill write it down. It is just that I dont want to cause a #storm(and a subsequent derailment of the whole topic with it) because that is what happens when I pop up that proverbial nuke.

Piece out.

Op, I want to thank you for speaking your mind, the world needs more people believing in freedom for all. Some documents never lose importance in the words they contain, the Constitution, is one such document. I am saddened by how many these days, do not know history, not only U.S. history, but world history.

Those who heed not the lessons of history, are bound to repeat the mistakes of the past.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by projectvxn

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by projectvxn

 

You are also the Second Amendment manifest. You are our highly trained and regulated militia. Do what's noble and state that you are an Oathkeeper and that, if ordered to fire on American civilians, you will refuse that order and will defend the people, for they are the seat of government.

~Heff

And so are you. I do not need to belong to the Oathkeepers to be one. I serve in the US Army to protect the American people, not to harm them. It is not my job to enforce domestic policy. My job is to enforce foreign policy. Or to destroy invaders.

Most servicemen do not realise that the "domestic enemy" is greater than the "foreign enemy". We make lots of foreign enemies because of washington's incessant drive to expand the corporate markets throughout the globe. They have no problem overthrowing governments with exaggerated excuses or even fabricated ones(such as the 9-11-2001 terrorist plot).

Also the military industrial complex needs to keep itself busy and expand when posible.

edit on 27/1/13 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)

I'm sorry but that is flat out wrong. Whenever you see a soldier, ask him or her what they think about the current leadership...you'll be quite surprised...in my experience, if I had to estimate...I would say over 5 out of every 10 soldiers in my current unit (roughly 250 soldiers), are well aware of the road the current domestic enemy (wishfully) thinks they are traveling...

reply to post by Narcissous


Our country was founded as a Constitutional Republic, some people like to forget that. You seem very biased towards our military. I won't tell you what to believe, but most of the military are really good people. Good people can be led astray by those really in charge, and these days I am of the belief that the people in charge are not even our government, at least not most of it.

Originally posted by LennayTheUndead

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by projectvxn

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by projectvxn

 

You are also the Second Amendment manifest. You are our highly trained and regulated militia. Do what's noble and state that you are an Oathkeeper and that, if ordered to fire on American civilians, you will refuse that order and will defend the people, for they are the seat of government.

~Heff

And so are you. I do not need to belong to the Oathkeepers to be one. I serve in the US Army to protect the American people, not to harm them. It is not my job to enforce domestic policy. My job is to enforce foreign policy. Or to destroy invaders.

Most servicemen do not realise that the "domestic enemy" is greater than the "foreign enemy". We make lots of foreign enemies because of washington's incessant drive to expand the corporate markets throughout the globe. They have no problem overthrowing governments with exaggerated excuses or even fabricated ones(such as the 9-11-2001 terrorist plot).

Also the military industrial complex needs to keep itself busy and expand when posible.

edit on 27/1/13 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)

I'm sorry but that is flat out wrong. Whenever you see a soldier, ask him or her what they think about the current leadership...you'll be quite surprised...in my experience, if I had to estimate...I would say over 5 out of every 10 soldiers in my current unit (roughly 250 soldiers), are well aware of the road the current domestic enemy (wishfully) thinks they are traveling...

Exactly, that is my point! The military are as much victims as we are in many respects, the people pulling the strings work on a worldwide stage and not limited to one country.

Originally posted by Darkphoenix77
reply to post by Narcissous

 

Our country was founded as a Constitutional Republic, some people like to forget that. You seem very biased towards our military. I won't tell you what to believe, but most of the military are really good people. Good people can be led astray by those really in charge, and these days I am of the belief that the people in charge are not even our government, at least not most of it.

This is exactly right. Most of this country's military is no different than anyone else. Their families come first. That is why they are in the military to begin with.