UK Finally Promised Referendum on EU

Originally posted by Talliostro
reply to post by michael1983l

 

Oh I do like the idea behind the EU, don't get me wrong. I like to travel to other european countries unhindered, enjoying another culture and meeting other people. I like the general concept of the Schengen Treaty, prospering peace, trade and freedom throughout the EU.
What I don't like is the fact, that my tax used to paying debts and bills of other countries, while "my" country is crumbling and hollowed out around me for the benefit of someone else. And I don't like being ruled by someone I didn't vote for.

So I think, the german and british people have much more in common than we are told by the MSM.

And this is why the UK should be a natural ally of Germany... its another reason why changes to Europe will happen, it has to. Too many of the big players are suffering.

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by tdk84

 

So who is in charge then? because it certainly isn't David Cameron or the British Government. But we still get law changes dictated to us by the European Courts of Human Rights and the European Union. Votes for murders and rapists, serving porridge time? anybody?

edit on 23-1-2013 by michael1983l because: (no reason given)

Are you serious? you think the German chancellor in in charge of Europe? She isn't even the president of her own country...

I say NO!
with the money troubles in Europe.
most will not want it.

I bet we dont stop every thing Europe makes us suffer.
so many stupid silly things they made us do!

reply to post by tdk84


I bet the German Chancellor has more input than any other head of State in Europe. But that was not my question, I was asking you exactly who do you think it is in charge of running the EU?

Bah Double-Post, stupid Internet Explorer.

Who's in charge of Europe?
Goldman-Sachs, naturally. Just look where these guys have their people and heads installed in the political systems...

reply to post by HelenConway

Who represents 'us' the people .. I mean why do we keep voting for these looneys ?

We don't.

They are in power because TPTB want them there. We're just led to believe it was us who voted them in.

If we were a true democracy, we would have the right to a vote of no confidence.

This is England, and gov is paid way, way above minimum wage with OUR tax money, trusted with OUR money to efficiently run OUR country, so we should have more of a say when we're not happy with it's decisions. Or fire them on the spot, as you would anybody else you pay to do a job and they consistently under-perform.

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by tdk84

 

How is that what Merkel said? How is asking for more restraints and rules over our nation, giving us back our Soverign Powers?

Eh, what are you talking about? You said I was missing the point. I corrected you by stating all I did was give Merkel's point of few, what she thinks will resolve the issues and that many don't agree as no one wants to give up national powers.

I think your confused... this is just an opinion, not what will happen. As I said even the French and germans themselves strongly disagree, its the reason for the Franco-German break down among other things.

Originally posted by tdk84

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by tdk84

 

How is that what Merkel said? How is asking for more restraints and rules over our nation, giving us back our Soverign Powers?

Eh, what are you talking about? You said I was missing the point. I corrected you by stating all I did was give Merkel's point of few, what she thinks will resolve the issues and that many don't agree as no one wants to give up national powers.

I think your confused... this is just an opinion, not what will happen. As I said even the French and germans themselves strongly disagree, its the reason for the Franco-German break down among other things.

edit on 23-1-2013 by tdk84 because: (no reason given)

Please explain, how your quote below constitutes to you saying anything about giving powers back to nations?

Originally posted by tdk84

German Chancellor Angela Merkel wants fiscal restraint, they don't want growth financed by more debt. They think this can be achieved through a more united Europe, tougher, tightened fiscal discipline's throughout.

The idea is actually quite sound and would work... but who wants to give up national powers.

edit on 23-1-2013 by tdk84 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by doobydoll
reply to post by HelenConway

 

Who represents 'us' the people .. I mean why do we keep voting for these looneys ?

We don't.

They are in power because TPTB want them there. We're just led to believe it was us who voted them in.

If we were a true democracy, we would have the right to a vote of no confidence.

This is England, and gov is paid way, way above minimum wage with OUR tax money, trusted with OUR money to efficiently run OUR country, so we should have more of a say when we're not happy with it's decisions. Or fire them on the spot, as you would anybody else you pay to do a job and they consistently under-perform.

edit on 23-1-2013 by doobydoll because: (no reason given)

Yep - spot on !!!

Here is what I think:
The "germans" (not citizens, more like a faction) want to return to a stricter maastricht treaty. Stricter financial policy, noone has to pay the debt/bills of someone else, growth with debt under certain circumstances, better overview over the european spendings, stable EURO due to stable fiscal policy etc.
After the EU is financial stable in itself, and the EURO ist backed by stable fiscal politics, the political situation can be reviewed and we can work on a true political Union like the US is. Maybe even reduce the EU to a sound few like it was in the old days.

The french want the opposite: first the political union with all and in all Memberstates, then looking into the fiscal and other problems.

Don't know where the UK comes in, but I would say from this topic, they would be more in favor of the german approach.

Please explain, how your quote below constitutes to you saying anything about giving powers back to nations?

Originally posted by tdk84

German Chancellor Angela Merkel wants fiscal restraint, they don't want growth financed by more debt. They think this can be achieved through a more united Europe, tougher, tightened fiscal discipline's throughout.

The idea is actually quite sound and would work... but who wants to give up national powers.

edit on 23-1-2013 by tdk84 because: (no reason given)

The first paragraph states her opinion, not mine.

The second states how no one wants to give up national powers. i.e. people want national powers not giving more of it away, thats France, Germany and the UK.

reply to post by Talliostro


I am in favour of no approach with the EU, they have already proven they cannot be trusted and are power hungry. Things might tempoarily change to keep the disgruntled masses in check but it will just creep in again over time. Slowly, slowly catchy monkey as they say.

As the EU cannot be trusted to not try and power grab, then there is no other option for the UK but to leave.

Originally posted by Talliostro
Here is what I think:
The "germans" (not citizens, more like a faction) want to return to a stricter maastricht treaty. Stricter financial policy, noone has to pay the debt/bills of someone else, growth with debt under certain circumstances, better overview over the european spendings, stable EURO due to stable fiscal policy etc.
After the EU is financial stable in itself, and the EURO ist backed by stable fiscal politics, the political situation can be reviewed and we can work on a true political Union like the US is. Maybe even reduce the EU to a sound few like it was in the old days.

The french want the opposite: first the political union with all and in all Memberstates, then looking into the fiscal and other problems.

Don't know where the UK comes in, but I would say from this topic, they would be more in favor of the german approach.

Yes, the alliance could be quite natural, a lot of policies with this tory government are very similar to Germanys. The problem lies in giving up national powers to enforce the fiscal policies.

But again that was just one women's view, it wouldn't happen, to many object yourself included I'd imagine.

This French government is better suited to the labour party, i.e. spending to dig the economy out and inject funds to get things rolling again.

Originally posted by buddha
I say NO!
with the money troubles in Europe.
most will not want it.

I bet we dont stop every thing Europe makes us suffer.
so many stupid silly things they made us do!

Name 3 that significantly impact your way of life.

Originally posted by HelenConway

Originally posted by ColCurious
reply to post by Flavian

 

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by michael1983l

 

My personal favourite, as i have said many times on here, would be a rejigged EU, based on Northern Power (Britain, Germany, Scandinavian / Baltic States). Only France if they start pulling their weight.

I like this idea in principle too, maybe except for the part about France though (sorry can't help it).

All under the precondition that we build an honest Trade-Union next time, which refrains from threatening our respective sovereignties.

edit on 23-1-2013 by ColCurious because: (no reason given)

I would prefer Spain / Netherlands / Norway / Debmark /Sweden / Ireland / France / Germany. - that is basically what we had more or less before the expansion of the EU to include 27 ish bankrupt soviet states.

edit on 23-1-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-1-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)

Me too.

I think the ONLY reason the ex-Soviet states were brought in was to avoid political polarisation along the old cold war lines of East Vs West in those countries.

I can understand that thinking, and on the surface it seems to make sense in security terms, but similar objectives could have been achieved by other political / economic means, without EU membership, and the costs to the highest contributers of the EU that it brings.

Like some wise posters have already said, I'm all for a TRADE - union, along the lines of a tweaked common market / free trade agreements, but economic and political integration was and is going to be an absolute disaster...remember the ERM fiasco?

Nigel Farage summed up the nonsense of European political integration very aptly when he addressed the then new President of the European Council Herman van Rompuy, and asked " Who the hell are you? Nobody knows who you are!"

reply to post by MysterX

Nigel Farage? Who is he? Oh, wait, I remember... he's that guy who was so well respected in the party he originally chose to align himself with, he had to go and create his own party so he could find people to agree with him.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by MysterX

 

Nigel Farage? Who is he? Oh, wait, I remember... he's that guy who was so well respected in the party he originally chose to align himself with, he had to go and create his own party so he could find people to agree with him.

And plenty do ..

Originally posted by ColCurious
reply to post by Flavian

 

Well, that's the tricky part... Let's see how your referendum works out.
A recent survey conducted in Germany by TNS Emnid showed that ~85% here "don't like" the €Z/EU.
I really hope you Brits turn out in masses and defend your Islands from Brussels powergrip.

The British don't like the EU, the Germans don't like the EU, Greece, Spain and Italy, and possibly Ireland are going under financially, being constantly propped up by Germany...the only REAL winners so far are those countries that put the least into the EU...apart from those, it seems the majority of this 'happy club' want out.

If Germany has to keep handing over hundreds of Billions of Euros to failing countries, it's no wonder why your workers earn a meagre 3 or 4 Euros per hour and you don't have a minimum wage in Germany.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by MysterX

 

Nigel Farage? Who is he? Oh, wait, I remember... he's that guy who was so well respected in the party he originally chose to align himself with, he had to go and create his own party so he could find people to agree with him.

Or more accuratley, the leader of the 3rd most highest supported political party in the UK and the Leader of the UK's elected MEP. In other words a man that has enough UK support for the views he is airing to be regarded as much more than just respectable.

reply to post by HelenConway


Nick Griffin says exactly the same thing.