UK Finally Promised Referendum on EU

reply to post by EvanB


Whilst i applaud your patriotism, you are actually totally incorrect. The UK most definitely IS for sale, and not always to the highest bidder!

That's capitalism for you, i'm afraid.

Originally posted by tdk84

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by tdk84

 

I think you have the wording wrong there as well as the team you support. The UK is a cash cow for the Eastern European Members of the EU, The EU is by no means a cash cow for the UK.

Nope its a massive cash cow for the UK. To quote myself.

- Worlds largest single market
- Economic zone larger than that of the USA and Japan combined
- Total GDP of around £11 trillion
- 2.75 million jobs were created in the single market between 1992 and 2006. For the UK, the increase in GDP would have been around £25 billion.
- Exports to other EU countries account for 51 per cent of the UK’s exports of goods and services
- 3.5 million jobs in Britain are linked, directly or indirectly, to the UK’s trade with other Member States.
- Foreign direct investment+
- Freedom to travel, live, work, study and retire anywhere in the EU
- Free trade agreement with Japan that will generate about £25 billion in economic benefits for Europe.

The biggest factor is FDI, its massive, countries literally move to the UK becuase were in Europe, massive trade hub that London is with europe. Think of all the Big business HQ's that have setup shop in the UK.

All that FDI business who then export to Europe., as mentioned before 51% all all exports goes to Europe.

Its obvious really, why do you think both labour and the torries want to stay in Europe... because of all the money that can be made.

This whole ploy is to scare Europe and get us more powers. The system needs tweaking, and tweak they will, its already starting.

edit on 23-1-2013 by tdk84 because: (no reason given)

Combining lots of countries economies and saying, hey look, we have a bigger GDP than anybody else and we consume more, is a pretty weak argument to say that the said economy is that of a healthy one. The EU economy is in tatters and if it wasn't for the powerhouses of Germany, UK and France, it couldn't even exist. The UK was a world economy before the EU and it will be a world economy after the EU. Sterling is still a world reserve currency and we still have the finance capital of the world. Our exports suprisingly is one of the highest in the world and our Economy is 6th largest, despite a decade of mismanagement and the financial crisis.

People paint a bad picture of the UK, when in reality, it is more than capable of standing on its own teo feet and being prosperous.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by EvanB

 

Whilst i applaud your patriotism, you are actually totally incorrect. The UK most definitely IS for sale, and not always to the highest bidder!

That's capitalism for you, i'm afraid.

Oh yes I AGREE UK PLC has been and is being sold hook line and sinker... we have very very business corrupt leaders and politicians.

Originally posted by EvanB
Reasons to leave the EU:

1) The criminal loss of our nations soverignty and law making capability to faceless, unelected foriegners
2) We give them £40m A DAY for what?? That money should be reinvested into the country.. Bring up our infrastructure.. Secure our leaking borders.. Invest in our second to none manufacturing base and science technologies..
3) They hate us.. And its largely mutual.
4) Immigration is a very threat to this country.. An island nation with limited space and resources cannot sustain this large influx... It will be nice to be able to bugger them all off home... Housing crisis sorted.. Job crisis sorted.. And having our own law making capabilities back will ensure that those who hate this country and all it stands for will be politely expelled..

I am quite looking forward to the fearmongering rhetoric from Europhiles..

Fact is.. The people of this great nation did very well indeed without the EU.. We do not need to be joined at the hip with them to trade with them..

They need us more than we need them..

Lets not also forget the 300LB gorrila in the room either... The square mile of London OWNS 3/4 of their debts...


Bring it on!

I and people like me have fought to keep this country free from tyranny and the yoke of oppression... Our ancesters would be turning in their graves in shame at this current pussified generation..


The good ship GB steers its OWN course..

Regardless of any debate.. My country is no longer for sale..

Like someone else said.. This will end in blood..

1) Your over reacting about current power else where although it does exist. This is the whole reason this vote has come to play to get us more powers in Europe. The system needs tweaking, and this is the perfect scare tactic.

2) We get loads from being in europe, mostly trade advantages and massive FDI. In fact we rank 3rd in the world... thats a lot of money.

3)

4) Immigration is an issue but isnt a UK exclusive problem. Germany has far worse problems then us for example. This WILL be fixed/tweaked.

its not about how we did fine without Europe in the past but about how much money we can make from them now. Why do you think the Torries want to remain, its not to waste money but to make riches.

reply to post by Talliostro

I agree wholeheartedly with your general stance towards the EU, but to be honest, we are complaining on a comfort level no one else around us can afford... just saying.
We will have a fully consolidated budget within the next 3-4 years... so from a purely financial perspective there is no reason for us to cry.

This is much more about national souvereignty for us IMO.

Originally posted by tdk84

Originally posted by EvanB
2) We get loads from being in europe, mostly trade advantages and massive FDI. In fact we rank 3rd in the world... thats a lot of money.

3.

Can you please list the 'loads from being in Europe ' that we get ?

Originally posted by michael1983l

Originally posted by tdk84

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by tdk84

 

I think you have the wording wrong there as well as the team you support. The UK is a cash cow for the Eastern European Members of the EU, The EU is by no means a cash cow for the UK.

Nope its a massive cash cow for the UK. To quote myself.

- Worlds largest single market
- Economic zone larger than that of the USA and Japan combined
- Total GDP of around £11 trillion
- 2.75 million jobs were created in the single market between 1992 and 2006. For the UK, the increase in GDP would have been around £25 billion.
- Exports to other EU countries account for 51 per cent of the UK’s exports of goods and services
- 3.5 million jobs in Britain are linked, directly or indirectly, to the UK’s trade with other Member States.
- Foreign direct investment+
- Freedom to travel, live, work, study and retire anywhere in the EU
- Free trade agreement with Japan that will generate about £25 billion in economic benefits for Europe.

The biggest factor is FDI, its massive, countries literally move to the UK becuase were in Europe, massive trade hub that London is with europe. Think of all the Big business HQ's that have setup shop in the UK.

All that FDI business who then export to Europe., as mentioned before 51% all all exports goes to Europe.

Its obvious really, why do you think both labour and the torries want to stay in Europe... because of all the money that can be made.

This whole ploy is to scare Europe and get us more powers. The system needs tweaking, and tweak they will, its already starting.

edit on 23-1-2013 by tdk84 because: (no reason given)

Combining lots of countries economies and saying, hey look, we have a bigger GDP than anybody else and we consume more, is a pretty weak argument to say that the said economy is that of a healthy one. The EU economy is in tatters and if it wasn't for the powerhouses of Germany, UK and France, it couldn't even exist. The UK was a world economy before the EU and it will be a world economy after the EU. Sterling is still a world reserve currency and we still have the finance capital of the world. Our exports suprisingly is one of the highest in the world and our Economy is 6th largest, despite a decade of mismanagement and the financial crisis.

People paint a bad picture of the UK, when in reality, it is more than capable of standing on its own teo feet and being prosperous.

What's that got to do with the massive FDI we receive (3rd in the world) and massive economical gain from being in the E.U? Being in the E.U allows is to exploit many benefits. "Its all about the money" and even Cameron knows it, as mentioend before... its a power play.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by EvanB

 

Whilst i applaud your patriotism, you are actually totally incorrect. The UK most definitely IS for sale, and not always to the highest bidder!

That's capitalism for you, i'm afraid.

The thing is, it's not capitalism. Government contracts to private firms is not capitalism, bailing out banks with tax payers money is not capitalism. What we have is crony capitalism or a plutocracy.
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by tdk84


How do you work that out?

Have you looked at the figures? And also factored in the indirect and directs costs to our country too?

You mention a £25 Billion GDP boost, but didn't notice that our costs (rising costs, especially with a weak £) of being in the EU outweigh that.

The 'UK rebate' is also taken into account in these figures.

In a nutshell, in 2013, the net cost for working people (not including out of work, children etc) as a consequence of being in the EU, will be around £2000 per working British person...and rising.

How can a rising cost of two grand each ever be considered a financial benefit?

This figure raises even higher, when factoring all other indirect costs that i've already mentioned in another post a little up the thread.

On 31st December this year, Bulgaria and other Eastern European countries who joined the EU in 2007, will have immigration restrictions to Britain lifted...there is a potential 27 Million more immigrants there.

In 2004, despite the government assuring us that 'less than 20,000 immigrants from Poland' would decide to take advantage of 'free movement in the EU' legislation and come to Britain, it actually was over 669,000 (3,300% more than estimated) Polish immigrants entering Britain and looking for housing, jobs and NHS treatment...and if any of them claimed to be 'self employed' were entitled to benefits as soon as they stepped off the aircraft...a LOT of self employed Poles came to Britain...

Younger people tend to migrate more than older, and naturally, younger people tend to be the groups that start families, as a result, while some people decide Britain isn't for them and return home, more come to replace them and then start familes, adding to the social burden on our small country.

We have just under a year to wait until we will undoubtably see another massive influx of immigrants from Bulgaria and other Eastern countries, all the while, Brits are being put out of work, Policemen and women are having a 25% pay cut, and social security budgets are getting strained to the point of breaking.

I know it's not a popular issue with some of you, but immigration HAS to be factored into any debate of Britain's role in the EU.

Just to show that the UK does still have exporting power, it is ranked 10th in the world for value of total exports, not bad for a tiny island nation with supposedly no manufacturing industry.

en.wikipedia.org...

I know its a wiki article but it was convenient to quote as it has a nice easy to read table. The info comes from the World Trade Organisation.

reply to post by tdk84


And you think that is a good enough reason to hand over our democracy into the hands of a dictatorship and smile whilst we do so?

reply to post by tdk84


We do not get economic gain from the EU.

We give the EU more in money each year then we get in refunds.

We could have a free trade zone without being a full EU member.

We betrayed NZ and our commonwealth friends when we joined the EU - we had a much greater market with them actually.

reply to post by Flavian

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by michael1983l

 

My personal favourite, as i have said many times on here, would be a rejigged EU, based on Northern Power (Britain, Germany, Scandinavian / Baltic States). Only France if they start pulling their weight.

I like this idea in principle too, maybe except for the part about France though (sorry can't help it).

All under the precondition that we build an honest Trade-Union next time, which refrains from threatening our respective sovereignties.

We betrayed NZ and our commonwealth friends when we joined the EU - we had a much greater market with them actually.

reply to post by HelenConway


I could not agree more.. We should have stayed on this course rather than give this countries soul to people who hate us..

Regardless of any pro or con debate.. I for one want my country back for good or ill.. For me it is a heart issue..

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by tdk84

 

And you think that is a good enough reason to hand over our democracy into the hands of a dictatorship and smile whilst we do so?

Nope, I dont agree with that, it wont happen... this is the very reason France has fallen out with Germany. This is the kind of thing that will be negotiated.

To be fair the idea is sound and the idea would work but who wants to give up their power. For those who don't know the reason Germany want to unite in such a way is to gain fiscal control. Sort out the mess in Europe. Like I said the idea is sound but who wants to do that.

Originally posted by ColCurious
reply to post by Flavian

 

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by michael1983l

 

My personal favourite, as i have said many times on here, would be a rejigged EU, based on Northern Power (Britain, Germany, Scandinavian / Baltic States). Only France if they start pulling their weight.

I like this idea in principle too, maybe except for the part about France though (sorry can't help it).

All under the precondition that we build an honest Trade-Union next time, which refrains from threatening our respective sovereignties.

edit on 23-1-2013 by ColCurious because: (no reason given)

Totally on board with that plan. Now we just need mass protest by other EU citizens so we can get the ball rolling!

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by MysterX

 

Star for providing some info - an awful lot to read through so won't be commenting on content until i have had a chance to read through it.

However, it is a report by a Euroskeptic MEP. I would therefore point out that with a bit of searching i will also be able to find a report by a pro Europe group that paints a different picture.

In other words, all statistics can be manipulated and everything is biased one way or another.

ETA:

The Centre for European Reform are a much more unbiased source of information - they are pro Europe but still critical of how it is currently run. That said, as i stated above, everything is subject to bias to a degree.........

edit on 23-1-2013 by Flavian because: (no reason given)

Star back at ya!

I hear you, and agree to an extent, but the reality is despite both Pro-EU and Anti-EU calls for successive governments to perform an in depth financial analysis on the cost to benefit ratio of Britain being in the EU, they have always...refused, claiming the benefits are self evident..seriously.

One would then naturally assume if the benefits were of such immense value to us in Britain, government economists would have been falling over themselves to produce such a breakdown report...rather than refusing it.

Originally posted by ColCurious
reply to post by Flavian

 

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by michael1983l

 

My personal favourite, as i have said many times on here, would be a rejigged EU, based on Northern Power (Britain, Germany, Scandinavian / Baltic States). Only France if they start pulling their weight.

I like this idea in principle too, maybe except for the part about France though (sorry can't help it).

All under the precondition that we build an honest Trade-Union next time, which refrains from threatening our respective sovereignties.

edit on 23-1-2013 by ColCurious because: (no reason given)

I would prefer Spain / Netherlands / Norway / Debmark /Sweden / Ireland / France / Germany. - that is basically what we had more or less before the expansion of the EU to include 27 ish bankrupt soviet states.

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by tdk84

 

We do not get economic gain from the EU.

We give the EU more in money each year then we get in refunds.

We could have a free trade zone without being a full EU member.

We betrayed NZ and our commonwealth friends when we joined the EU - we had a much greater market with them actually.

Of course we gain, why do you think the Torries want to remain in Europe... with all there cut backs and fiscal restraint its not to lose money, is it.

Originally posted by tdk84

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by tdk84

 

We do not get economic gain from the EU.

We give the EU more in money each year then we get in refunds.

We could have a free trade zone without being a full EU member.

We betrayed NZ and our commonwealth friends when we joined the EU - we had a much greater market with them actually.

Of course we gain, why do you think the Torries want to remain in Europe... with all there cut backs and fiscal restraint its not to lose money, is it.

edit on 23-1-2013 by tdk84 because: (no reason given)

We do NOT TDK - we are net contributers, which means we pay more for membership then we get back. - the politicians love the EU because they get cheap labour etc so they get rich, on the back of pushing wages and conditions down etc.

This article from the Telegraph explains it well:

www.telegraph.co.uk...