UK Finally Promised Referendum on EU

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by MysterX

 

Nigel Farage? Who is he? Oh, wait, I remember... he's that guy who was so well respected in the party he originally chose to align himself with, he had to go and create his own party so he could find people to agree with him.

You should look up some of the videos of his speeches...say what you like about his politics, even his political enemies admit his performances are absolutely outstanding.

In fact, i've never seen any other politician, of any political 'colour', EU or otherwise perform better than he does.

He's a both barrels politician, when he stands up, others listen carefully. I may not agree with everything he says, but i know quality when i see it.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by HelenConway

 

Nick Griffin says exactly the same thing.

The little credibility you may have had just went flying out of the Window once you have said that. I will be ignoring your posts from now on.

reply to post by michael1983l


So, if the Tories and Labour are 2 sides of the same coin and the Lib-Dems are the edge of the coin, where are UKIP in this relationship? Give me one good reason why this party is any more credible than the rest of the self-serving parasites?

reply to post by MysterX


I've seen his "performances" many times and he just appears to be another loquacious puppet from where I'm sitting.

If you believe this you'll believe anything. It's easy to promise something will happen after another election.
Think of all the things both the Tories and lib dems promised this time that they have since U-turned on or just flat out lied about ever saying.

It's just more BS political shyte for the masses to eat up.

Nigel Farage is a man that represents more than any other member of any main stream political party, the true thoughts of the British public.

Ivor, stop claiming our benafits and push off back to Eastern Europe. We don't want any part of the EU in its current form.

Originally posted by stargatetravels
If you believe this you'll believe anything. It's easy to promise something will happen after another election.
Think of all the things both the Tories and lib dems promised this time that they have since U-turned on or just flat out lied about ever saying.

It's just more BS political shyte for the masses to eat up.

Just a small point but rather an important one given how the political system works - no party won an outright majority so no party was in a position to deliver on their manifesto.

Originally posted by Flavian

Originally posted by stargatetravels
If you believe this you'll believe anything. It's easy to promise something will happen after another election.
Think of all the things both the Tories and lib dems promised this time that they have since U-turned on or just flat out lied about ever saying.

It's just more BS political shyte for the masses to eat up.

Just a small point but rather an important one given how the political system works - no party won an outright majority so no party was in a position to deliver on their manifesto.

I'd agree to an extent, but also I think it was an excuse used all too often to break promises they never had any intentions of keeping.


How do you know when a politician is lying? His lips are moving.

Originally posted by Flavian

Originally posted by stargatetravels
If you believe this you'll believe anything. It's easy to promise something will happen after another election.
Think of all the things both the Tories and lib dems promised this time that they have since U-turned on or just flat out lied about ever saying.

It's just more BS political shyte for the masses to eat up.

Just a small point but rather an important one given how the political system works - no party won an outright majority so no party was in a position to deliver on their manifesto.

Labour ruled for 10 years with about 28% of the ACTUAL vote .. but I agree, that is why they do not represent us.

reply to post by michael1983l


Oooh you cynic!

Originally posted by michael1983l
Nigel Farage is a man that represents more than any other member of any main stream political party, the true thoughts of the British public.

Ivor, stop claiming our benafits and push off back to Eastern Europe. We don't want any part of the EU in its current form.

Not a drop of eastern European blood in my body, as far as I'm aware, but thanks for showing your true colours.

reply to post by Flavian



Oh absolutely and that is a fair point, but do you truly believe that either party would have delivered everything? Has any party ever done everything they say?
At the end of the day, we as citizens elect people to decide things for us, that's what a parliamentary democracy is.
We the people don't actually get a say at all, the game is rigged from the start.
You hear it constantly repeated that we the voters have all of this power and how we can just vote people out and we're to blame because we voted them in - it's all an illusion.
We elect people to decide, we don't decide and we don't even decide which people.
We dont vote who leads a party, we don't get to choose who runs for nomination, we have only the choices on the ballot once every few years.

The game is rigged.

But that's ok if people want to believe otherwise and feel that they have real power with their vote

reply to post by stargatetravels


No i don't, no party ever does. However, to be fair to all political parties (in this country, can't speak for others), most election pledges are followed through on (if not fully then certainly to an extent) whenever a party wins enough of an outright majority. At the same time though, parties always drop things from their manifesto's if they have a sufficient majority.

Basically, a case of not all good and not all bad but somewhere in between!

Personally, i like that political parties have a vision that they then project for that term of office. It allows change to happen, whether good or bad. If it turns out to be bad, tough luck at the next election! For me, this is far more preferable than the knee jerk stance of policy by public opinion. Sad to say but public opinion is often wrong - countless examples throughout history

Here's an idea. How about working on getting the established parties with experience of running a country to either deliver on their promises, or at least not make ones they can't keep, rather than delegating responsibility to a completely untried and tested party?

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by stargatetravels

 

For me, this is far more preferable than the knee jerk stance of policy by public opinion. Sad to say but public opinion is often wrong - countless examples throughout history

Public opinion is never wrong, not in the premise of a democracy anyway. Our elected leaders are elected to push through the will of the majority through parliment. If public opinion turns out to be not the best path to take retrospectivly then that is the price to pay for democracy. I am sick of being dictated to what is best for us in the opinion of a public school boy, rather than actually what we want.

reply to post by Flavian



Fair points mate. It certainly gives us something to talk (and bitch and moan) about right?

Originally posted by michael1983l

Public opinion is never wrong, not in the premise of a democracy anyway. Our elected leaders are elected to push through the will of the majority through parliment. If public opinion turns out to be not the best path to take retrospectivly then that is the price to pay for democracy. I am sick of being dictated to what is best for us in the opinion of a public school boy, rather than actually what we want.

But this will never happen under our system as it stands.
We don't have true democracy, we don't even have a system where the 'will of the people is done'
We also have a group of unelected toffs sat in the house of lords deciding things and deciding our future, just because they are 'privileged' and happened to be born into money and wealth.

We are also among only 2-3 countries in the world where religious officials and clergy actually sit in parliament and hold power.

Until these ludicrous things change and our system completely changes, we can never hope to have a voice.

UKIP immigration polices worry me... was it Cameron that called them"closet racists"?

Some of there ideas on immigration seem sound but they equally want rid of skilled and non skilled foreign workers.

There's the whole Human Rights article 9 about protecting religious freedoms that they oppose.

One of the biggest reasons one would vote UKIP is for there immigration polices and yet like to do deal with pro Europe Cameron.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

UKIP also said they wont put up a UKIP candidate in a ward where the Tory candidate is anti EU and will back a referendum.

reply to post by michael1983l


I think we will have to agree to disagree about public opinion.

Public opinion is correct in the sense that that the public choose who to govern us. However, that was not the context of "public opinion" that i mean. What i was referring to is more the "public opinion" in response to something that has happened mid term that causes a sudden policy lurch in order to appease the masses - of which there are numerous examples.

Such policy shifts totally undermine the point of a political manifesto. And all parties are guilty of it - although to be honest i lay the blame for this more at the door of the media than at the door of politicians themselves. We may not be happy with our politicians but at the end of the day politicians reflect society. Current society has the attention span of a gnat, hence all the sudden policy shifts.

reply to post by tdk84


What is wrong with training our OWN countrymen/women to be skilled labour?

Wtf is that racist?

I am so very sick of people pulling out the race card when immigration is debated..

Fact is... Immigration is a huge problem in this country and unsustainable.. A line must be drawn somewhere..