Yahweh = Satan. They have you worshiping evil.

reply to post by CaticusMaximus


Maybe you should take the time to do some research on the two I spoke about instead of trying to get all heated. I was being sarcastic to your thread. If you do research on the two I mentioned you will find that your theory pretty much is in line with their teachings. The idea you have presented is an old idea and really only accepted by those who follow the Lucifer doctrines which A.C. and H.P.B started over hundred years ago. From the looks of the amount of flags this thread has received it's clear how many on ATS actually agree with such doctrines. I'm not knocking you for creating a well liked thread, I'm just simply pointing how are your ideas are nothing new.

Moreover, you haven't given any reference to support the idea that your theory might be correct. In either case I see where your coming from. If you want Satan and Yahweh to be one and the same that's fine, but let's not run around preaching it as fact.

reply to post by CaticusMaximus

Several years ago I probably would have agreed with you, but hte past few years I've been on a different road. Essentially, I believe evil and good are just words we apply to things. What I see are physical things and forces. The dynamics between the forces and the masses brings into being things we categorize in our mind, so we can make judgments. Both evil and good are the byproduct of the fundamental laws of physics, chemistry, biology and other phenomena.

If I boil away the blah blah blah, what it resolves to is that finiteness - on all scales - and conservation work to keep us imprisoned. The conservation seems to cause or contribute to the finiteness and the finiteness contributes or causes ignorance. Ignorance seems to be the source of evil. It's what causes us to stab blindly in the dark. It's pride before the fall.

So what's good? It's nothing without evil. Without evil, we could not need to identify good.

We will always justify our reality. It doesn't matter what flag we wave or what religion we're bound to or what philosophy we excite or what spirituality we employ, we're all bind by the same rules. We will identify evil and good, according to the system of explanation we favor.

This has all led me to be confused. I am not sure if there's such a thing as a place without evil. What would a place be if it was everything, yet nothing? How can you be infinite and have a name? See, while I believe evil and good are byproducts of reality, I am not sure there's any other kind of reality. Reality, as a term, seems to mean that there're rules and dynamics working to produce an experience. It seems to force limits on itself. Yet, if I try to imagine heaven, or a place like it, I cannot imagine any limits being applied to it. Thus, I fail to see how heaven could be a reality.

Where I am is not anywhere I would want others to be. I see no way to solve this. Perhaps when we die we will find the answer, but otherwise, we're stuck here. I enjoy a nice day like anybody. I can be entertained. But once all the fun wears away, I do not have anything to lean on. Because when the fizz is gone, all I am is just a person whom believes we're all fools in a car barreling over a cliff.

Since I can't be honest and tell them we're fools rushing to the fire, I default. So what I usually do is I keep that to myself and instead tell others what I would want them to remember. I say, don't hurt others. I say, follow basic rules that respect you and others around you. I say, nothing you do is going to be perfect, so you'll need to be able to forgive yourself for being imperfect. And really, this is all I can say. Maybe I could think of a few more things, but I'm already saying too much. I'm probably already wrong. In fact, I think when it comes dwon to things like this, people are best just figuring it out themselves. By telling them what to do, I'm just being a bigger fool than I already was.

I think it says more about me that I am willing to live in a reality where I believe evil cannot be extinguished. I have no foundation. I have nothing uplifting to say to a child. All I can tell em is they will enjoy some things and won't enjoy others. And evil and good are words. And I am a hypocrite.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Maybe you should take the time to do some research on the two I spoke about instead of trying to get all heated.

No heat, just a logical response to your heinously mis-attributed assertion that the OP was saying Satan was the good guy. The assertion couldnt have been more wrong, and is glaringly incorrect to anyone who read the OP.

But I see you have hence read the OP, and have adjusted your response accordingly.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

If you do research on the two I mentioned you will find that your theory pretty much is in line with their teachings.

From the little I know of those two, with more though still meager knowledge of HPB, I have no desire to research either of them, especially Crowley, as neither of their theories are very congruent with mine, except perhaps on the surface.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

The idea you have presented is an old idea and really only accepted by those who follow the Lucifer doctrines which A.C. and H.P.B started over hundred years ago

I can only assume you are referencing the section in the OP where I ponder if Lucifer might have been Jesus. Thats not really the main focus of the thread, and is only a pondering, not a belief.

Whatever AC and HPB think about the entity named Lucifer, is whatever they think about it. Not what I do.

If you were talking about the idea that Yahweh = Satan, then indeed that is an old idea, it is originally a gnostic idea, perhaps dating to even BC times. It is an ancient idea that evil and its personification rules over this world and the hearts of men through deception.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

From the looks of the amount of flags this thread has received it's clear how many on ATS actually agree with such doctrines.

Bull#. Its clear how many might agree with the general concepts put forth by myself that I developed on my own. Equating agreeance, perhaps only partially at that, with general concepts into a total acceptance of specific dogmas is ridiculous and shows only an unwillingness to actually consider the concepts put forth by themselves without immediately demonizing them and lumping them into some bin because they challenge your deeply held beliefs.

Its Orwells "Crimestop" in action.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

I'm not knocking you for creating a well liked thread, I'm just simply pointing how are your ideas are nothing new.

Are you sure thats all you were doing?

I actually think that that point was covered on page 1.

Yep, post 12 is the first mention of a gnostic writing.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Moreover, you haven't given any reference to support the idea that your theory might be correct.

Thats a bizarre requisite that I see people demand from time to time... bizarre to me, at least. I dont base my beliefs/theories/musings around some central "reference", allowing that piece of writing to be the core for my thoughts, rather than my own critical thinking and intuition.

Originally posted by CaticusMaximus

As I see it

Theres your reference

If its not as valued to you because its an independently constructed conclusion rather than a photocopied idea from someone else, then meh.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

If you want Satan and Yahweh to be one and the same that's fine, but let's not run around preaching it as fact.

I only stated my opinion.

reply to post by CaticusMaximus


It's cool. To each there own in opinions. Just thought I would throw in my little 2 cents, you know, stir the pot a little.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
reply to post by CaticusMaximus

 

Maybe you should take the time to do some research on the two I spoke about instead of trying to get all heated. I was being sarcastic to your thread. If you do research on the two I mentioned you will find that your theory pretty much is in line with their teachings. The idea you have presented is an old idea and really only accepted by those who follow the Lucifer doctrines which A.C. and H.P.B started over hundred years ago. From the looks of the amount of flags this thread has received it's clear how many on ATS actually agree with such doctrines. I'm not knocking you for creating a well liked thread, I'm just simply pointing how are your ideas are nothing new.

Moreover, you haven't given any reference to support the idea that your theory might be correct. In either case I see where your coming from. If you want Satan and Yahweh to be one and the same that's fine, but let's not run around preaching it as fact.

I agree, this is New Age stuff, so sad. The only truth I see in the OP is this, the rest is complete BS, and the only thing it invoked in me was a gag reflex.

Originally posted by CaticusMaximus
...Jesus wanted one thing...

The rest of it alludes to being like someone which is idolatry. I believe Jesus' message is love. Not the "I love you that is why I need to control you" No just fall in love, lose love, be kind and wholehearted. Jesus gave a simple message and your OP is convoluted and confounding. This is the malaise of New Age and other faiths like masonry "secrets R us", etc. Be wary of any faith that speaks of holding unknown truths and elitist ideals of secrets.
When the day comes where you are alone and in the dark. Your only defense being your beliefs, you will quickly learn a lesson that no amount of secrets, enlightment or book of the dead can save you from. Entombed by the world of your creation, good luck.

I think CatMax is bang on with his theory. I must admit l haven't read every post in this thread but you really don't need any more proof than a good look at the world we live in. Is it the work of a benevolent, lovingand peaceful god? I do 't think so. More likely it was created by an egotistical, crazy, narcissistic, bloodthirsty, deceitful psychopath. The biggest con in history happened when satan convinced a few gullible fools into believing he was god, gave them some special powers and told them to go spread the word. Did a good job too, eh ?
God, or at least the means to reach him dwells inside us all. He would never need to manifest in the physical world to contact anyone. He did that with abraham and look what happened there! Was that god? Religion has caused more death and suffering in our world than any other single thing. So obviously satan's work.

I didn't go through the whole thread, however there's a quote from the Bible which belongs here:

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
John 8:42-44

I don't think that the Bible should be meant from word to word for many reasons, but this one is pretty self explanatory.

reply to post by jonnywhite


Ha. There's probably more truth in this post than any other I've ever seen on ATS ... and certainly this thread.

Originally posted by CaticusMaximus
Look at the story of the garden... the story is a big allegory of course, but allegorical for what, exactly? It was Lucifer who brought knowledge to Adam and Eve, and showed them the bondage of ignorance they were restrained in. As Lucifer can be translated from Greek as "Bringer of Dawn", it is fitting to call the garden story the allegory of humanitys long night in the darkness of ignorance, and the "Bringer of Dawn" who signaled the impending rising of the light, and the banishing of the dark.

Any wonder why Yahweh got mad?

Do you have kids? He gave them everything and asked that they not do ONE thing, and they did it. This drives every parent crazy.

Originally posted by CaticusMaximus
Set the mountains of manure in the 3,000 page "holy" book ablaze, and after the fire dies and the wind scatters the ashes some tiny precious gems will remain steadfast and eternal, outliving the convolution and obfuscation of what they were buried under.

"Treat others as you would be treated" is the first gem, and most powerful IMO.

"Love your neighbor as yourself" is the second.

I think one of the biggest mistakes most people make is that they assume Jesus said this first. He didn't. This was actually spoken by God to Moses when He gave him the 10 commandments. Jesus didn't replace them, He echoed what His Father told us way back during the exodus. There is less contradiction between the old and new testaments than most people think.

Your logic is indeed flawed. Of those 3000 pages, you've probably not read very much of it with any understanding. I know the Old Testament is hard to read, and is a bit on the extreme side, but it is a perfect God attempting to interact with imperfect people, and there were bound to be problems with that. It wasn't until Jesus became sin for us that God had a way of interacting with us on our terms. Prior to that, we had to interact with Him on His terms, and we are incapable of doing that. If you are bogged down in the brutality of the the Bible and the history of the Jewish people, then you have to acknowledge that there was some pretty bad stuff going on, such as human and child sacrifice that even some of the tribes of the Jews practiced at times, and were punished for. People are flawed, and it's to the credit of the Bible and the Jewish nation that they don't try to sugar coat it or make it seem like it was better than it was. They were pretty honest with themselves.

And the flip side to that is that those pagan tribes the Israelites were killing, well, they were worshiping pagan deities and the Bible is clear that the Israelites were sent to the promised land to wipe out tribes that were engaged in human and child sacrifice. Other nations that were just misled but not engaging in those practices, God and the Israelites were much more lenient to.

And Jesus did in fact tell us who our neighbor is... everyone. Read the parable of the good Samaritan for that definition.

I want to study this whole thread and read it. But first I want to say something myself.

Anyone is free to believe what he wants. My mother is religious but let me free to choose, I admire her for doing that. I have a friend who is religiously raised, he is very religious. I was shocked when he didn't know about the good Samaritan, that's the story I remember and I life by; judge people on their actions not their belonging. Anyway, I tolerate his belief. I won't try to change it. I won't try to let him question it.

I always thought religion as something stupid and ignored it, and instead found truth in science.
But I started thinking. "What if religion is about mankind's deepest desires?". "What if religion is the tool to power (my darkside) or to change (my lightside)?". According to evolutionary psychology, God is inside our brain.
I noticed how people's obsession with Apple looked a lot like a religion, I was right, see:

news.cnet.com...

A few years ago. I had the idea of believing in myself as if I was some kind of savior. I felt euphoric and overly confident. I worshiped myself. I gave myself the illusion I was a Greek demigod. I was in a state, it was amazing. I walked in a city and everything was beautiful to me. I helped a man who was cleaning the train from garbage. I've heard the stories of what drugs do to people, but me, I don't need drugs because I know that they only release the chemicals in your brain you already have.

But it was too much for my brain to handle. Did I first know that I was not a demigod or savior, I just believed it as if it was real, I lost control over my brain. My brain didn't know anymore what was real and was not. I was hospitalized. They told me I had a psychosis. I am not diagnosed with schizophrenia. I possibly had brief reactive psychosis.

I wonder if I did it on purpose. It was the perfect plan. I wanted to lose fear and shame, what is the best way to do it with just running with it and do something that most people fear and would be ashamed by; loosing your sanity.

It is my desire, my forbidden desire, to control that mental state that I felt before I went "crazy". I'm a bit afraid though that I end up going crazy again. Also, anti-psychotics are damaging to the body, in fact they cause brain shrinkage, but I can use them. If I think I'm flying too high, rationalize and put my thoughts in perspective, if it doesn't help, I will take some (extra) of those medications. (Luckily I am almost off those medications, the doctors aren't that bad luckily.)

I'm now studying religion. I find the (far) Eastern religions to be much more interesting because they are more about finding yourself and believing in yourself instead of believing in others. I also study mythology. I'm toying with the idea of making my own religion, that takes the best of both worlds. I actually don't like the heroes that much, I prefer the mythical monsters and the archenemies.

reply to post by CaticusMaximus


Is this thread a joke?

Maybe Satan himself wrote up this thread.

Your faith and spreading of lies will take you straight to hell.

You do not know God because Jesus is God.

Originally posted by CaticusMaximus

Thats a bizarre requisite that I see people demand from time to time... bizarre to me, at least. I dont base my beliefs/theories/musings around some central "reference", allowing that piece of writing to be the core for my thoughts, rather than my own critical thinking and intuition.

If I could give you all my stars for this, I would.

reply to post by Fraudfinder


Ooooooo... the boogie man's coming for you! You better repent!

Stop threatening people with imaginary places.

reply to post by Fraudfinder

Originally posted by Fraudfinder
reply to post by CaticusMaximus

 

Is this thread a joke?

Maybe Satan himself wrote up this thread.

Your faith and spreading of lies will take you straight to hell.

You do not know God because Jesus is God.

Jesus is not God. Jesus said that God is more powerful than him:

“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." - John 14:28

Here is not the "only" son of God either. In Matthew 6:9 Jesus says to pray saying "Our Father in heaven". Our means that there is more than one.

reply to post by arpgme


Our Father means ours, it doesn't mean there is more than one father...

Also, Yahweh = NOT Satan.. The entire premise for the OP is total rubbish.. It may have well just said "Hey everyone" Orange is really green!, and Blue isn't really blue, it's pink!..

Just make stuff up and publish it as fact, that is what the MSM and the Obama administration do on a minute by minute basis..

People trashing God like this shows how childlike and stupid these people really are in their own hearts.. pathetic. Now go cry yourself a river and paddle upstream like usual.

reply to post by CaticusMaximus


Riiiight. Because the devil wants us to love our neighbors and give our money and food to the poor and sing songs that praise Jesus. At least once a month people post this stuff.

Great job, its nice to know it only took one wonderfully intellectual mind such as yourself to trump the many followers who apparently are dumb as a brick to not see what you in your probably 20 years of existence have discovered. Except you leave out some things. I still am guilty of doing wrong, not just Biblical wrong, I have done wrong to others and hurt others intentionally, I am not a good person. Either I continue not being a good person, or I need to find someone who is perfect that can forgive me, someone who will take the blame for me and "clean" me up. Otherwise I will have to adopt the philosophy that were all animals and it doesn't matter if were good or bad. Or that means your version of God is an unloving god and has left no true evidence of Himself or any attempt whatsoever, showing he is not a loving perfect god after all. So that just reverts me back to option A. I guess I as well as every other human being on this planet are just animals, and there is no right or wrong and the only thing that matters is furthering my own experience and I don't care who I hurt in my path.

Great discovery you made, so now since were all animals and its all about me, then you can go die and I wont care because the only god that exists according to you is myself, so if it pleases me for you to die than so be it. Normally I would lose sleep over this, but there are no morals or good or bad delusions, so I will sleep soundly tonight.

reply to post by alienreality

Originally posted by alienreality
Our Father means ours, it doesn't mean there is more than one father...

It means that there is more than one child.

Originally posted by alienreality
Also, Yahweh = NOT Satan.. The entire premise for the OP is total rubbish.. It may have well just said "Hey everyone" Orange is really green!, and Blue isn't really blue, it's pink!..

Yahweh is not Satan. You are correct. How can Yahweh be Satan if Yahweh was having full conversations with Satan in The Book of Job of The Bible? Of it Yahweh was mad at Satan for The Fruit of Knowledge incident?

They don't like his violent and destructive actions so they call him "Satan" but it doesn't mean that he is.

Satan is a title meaning "Adversary". It can be used to refer to Lucifer and Azazel as far as I am aware (there may be a few others, I don't know). Lucifer is The Red Dragon.

The true Devil is The Black Dragon (not even mentioned in the bible!). Lucifer still has "some" love because he has "pride" that is a form of self love. The black dragon has NO love. The Black Dragon is completely Chaotic and lives in the eternal dark realm.

Originally posted by alienreality
People trashing God like this shows how childlike and stupid these people really are in their own hearts.. pathetic.

There is your opinion, and you have the right to have your own opinion. But just because you don't like that people are "trashing" God that doesn't automatically mean that they are "stupid". Calling someone "stupid" over a disagreement is childish behavior.