Yahweh = Satan. They have you worshiping evil.

reply to post by CaticusMaximus


Really that wasn't the point of my post - I was just commenting on my initial impression when I started reading the 1st couple lines...I guess you didn't want to address anything else I said

reply to post by TKDRL

That god didn't separate people, we did it to ourselves.

sure, just look at the variations in the english language in a tiny pace like Britian for proof the above statement is true.

incidentally the word "god" is derived from the term Gut or Goth which referes the aryans that sargon et all were
goths

reply to post by TKDRL


Haha - yeah, you're right - he did separate the nations & languages.
I was specifically addressing the separation of the Christian religion into denominations

reply to post by coldkidc


The seperation of denominations, well a good deal of it has a lot to do with language to a certain extent. Interpretation of doctrine, has a lot to do with language. Some of the differences though, like outright rejection of certain things, or embracing of things not recognized by the pope I don't think language explains. Yeah, I am kind of a smart ass at times

Originally posted by coldkidc
reply to post by CaticusMaximus

 

I guess you didn't want to address anything else I said

I didnt feel it was necessary or productive. It was opinion, which is perfectly fine, and I didnt want to start an argument over it.

However with your first point, en.wikipedia.org... should shed some light on the golden rule within the bible. While it is not word for word perhaps, the spirit of the words is exactly the same, and that is what I think is important.

First of all, you are taking a translation and re-translating it in an incorrect way. Lucifer was never named as satan in the Bible. The passage that you are referring to literally refers to the "morning star," and it being overshadowed by the light of the sun when the sun rises. So you cannot say that this was a name for satan, and then turn around and use that semi-correct re-translation to prop up your idea. Considering also WHO said that verse about lucifer, it is obvious that he did not subscribe to your idea, and thus did not intend to even suggest that "lucifer," who was not an entity or person or angel or anything, gave anything to Adam and Eve.

The whole idea is just not supported by anything in scripture. What is annoying is the fact that people feel they can judge God. If God exists, and did what the Bible says He did, it is obvious that no human posseses the capacity to understand his reasoning, because God has infinite wisdom, and does not think like a mere mortal. Another thing is the time period and what everyday life was like for the people during that time. So no one can know why God did or did not do anything. And one of the main points, imo, of the Bible in general is to test faith.

The whole point is faith. It is not proving God to be real. This is why He does not just prove to everyone that He exists, because that would be too easy. But actually, the Bible said He did this multiple times, yet Israelites still strayed from His Word. So proving Himself real would not really work in either instance. So I think it is all about putting faith in something that cannot be proven, as a sort of test of trust or something. I don't know, and I could be wrong, but there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Satan and God hold reverse positions. If you are going to believe enough of the Bible to make that suggestion, then you should know how absurd it is. For in the Bible Satan acted in very bad ways, tempting Jesus, killing Job's family and all kinds of other things. So you obviously are picking and choosing what parts of the Bible you need for your idea, and that makes no sense.

reply to post by CaticusMaximus


I don't disagree that the general sentiment is based on Biblical doctrine - I don't disagree with your sentiments on how people should treat others either.
I am only disagreeing with the reversal of roles since the Bible itself gives us enough information on "lucifer" to rule out that he is the God of the Bible - he is definitely the antithesis of God from a purely Biblical perspective.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus


Well said. The whole idea falls apart with an understanding of scripture and language for one. I love how people pull passages from the OT to try to prove Gods "evilness" without any understanding of context. The so called atrocities have much to do with corrupted bloodlines, meaning angels intermixed with humans. There were remnants of these corrupt bloodlines that survived the flood and were mobilized by Satan or his forces so to speak to eradicate Gods chosen people so that the coming of the messiah could not come to pass.

Star & Flag. Great thread.

It is said that Lucifer fell down to earth as a bolt of lightning and set fire to a tree.

Man figured out that fire can either keep you alive or kill you. That was just one interpretation that I had read.

I found a cool and interesting video that sums up the entire message in the Bible in 4 minutes.

It was discovered by stringing together the hidden meanings that are within each name in the Bible. It's worth everyone's time to watch, IMO. I love allegorical stuff.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Did you see the OP provide any biblical evidence to support what he was saying? I did not recall any book, chapter, verse. Most of what he said was his interpetation of what he thinks God and Satan are. Nothing to back it up than an opinion. I'm not saying that he can not have an opinion, but he needs to be intellectually honest about his claim and call it an opinion. I also pointed out that he picked out what he wanted to address about Christ, did he not? Was he being honest about who Christ claimed to be in the bible? Or, did he say that Christ and Satan were the same. Where's the biblical proof? He won't find any. There are thousands of manuscripts that say the OP's view is unbiblical. Historical, archeological, and eye witness evidence that refutes his evaluation of Christ.

You say that the prophesies were made to fit Christ as the messiah. Come on...if that were the case we would not be having this discussion now. lol. The apostles would not allow themselve to be beaten, starved, shipwrecked, imprisoned, tortured, and martyed for a lie. I will, however, give you references in verses that compare the OT and NT prophesies .

Prophesy of the Messiah OT NT
Born of the Seed of the Woman - Gen. 3:15 Matt. 1:20
Born of a Virgin - Isaiah 7:14 Matt. 1:18,25
Son of God - Psalm 2:7 Matt. 3:15
Seed of Abraham - Gen. 22:18 Matt. 1:1
Son of Isaac - Gen. 21:12 Luke 3:23-34
House of David - Jer. 23:5 Luke 3:23-31
Born at Bethlehem - Micah 5:2 Matt. 2:1
He shall be a Prophet - Deut. 18:18 Matt. 21:11
He shall be a Priest - Psalm 110:4 Heb. 3:1, Heb. 5:5-6
He shall be a King - Psalm 2:6 Matt. 27:37
He shall judge - Isaiah 33:22 John 5:30
He would be preceded by a Messenger - Isaiah 40:3 Matt. 3:1-2
Rejected by His own people - Isaiah 53:3 John 7:5, John 7:48
His side pierced - Zech. 12:10 John 19:34
Crucifixion - Psalm 22:1, Psalm 22:11-18 (crucifixion not invented) Luke 23:33,John 19:33,John 9:23-24

These prophesies were found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Dead Sea Scrolls were found in 1946 after being placed in caves 2,500 years ago. This would be before the time of Christ. The scrolls are 95% accurate to modern translations.
I don't subscribe to any perticular dogma, or follow rules of a church, but I do beleive the bible is my holy book. Beleive it or not but people get upset when others attack it. I'm up for a discussion, but calling my God evil or that I worship evil is offensive and hateful. I don't care if people worship Allah, Brahama, The Source, or nothing at all, but I will defend what I believe in and wont sit back while people mock my faith. No apologies here. /thread

reply to post by coldkidc


So man can create different denominations of a religion but they can't create the religion itself or the book that the religion is based off of? That's completely illogical and contradictory.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
The laws of probability tell me that the bible has been messed with. We can hardly get the truth out of the leaders today, do you really think they would let the real truth spread like they have with the bible? The chances of that are zero.

There's no question that it's been messed with.

If it were just an ordinary man made book, they would have NO reason to attack it.

Originally posted by jeramie

Originally posted by bacci0909
As far as I've been able to gather, the OPs assessment is mostly correct. However, I wouldn't go as far as saying Yahweh is Satan. "Satan", or the idea of, is an invention of man. Yahweh is merely a creator, the creator of this world. It's true that Yahweh did not want to give us, his creation, full awareness, knowledge, or free will. Lucifer as well as other existing entities fought for us to have free will.

Freewill has always existed for God's creations. That's one of the reasons He didn't wipe Lucifer from existence when he sinned. By instead sending him and the angels he deceived to this planet, God showed the inhabitants of the un-fallen worlds and the inhabitants of Heaven that His laws are just. Had He destroyed Lucifer and his angels right away, the universe would then worship God out of fear, instead of love.

After Lucifer was cast to this planet, God made man. There was a big void left in Heaven after 1/3 of the angels were cast out. The human beings who make it to Heaven will have been those who were subjected to sin, yet overcame. These will be the perfect replacements for those angels who followed Lucifer; this will ensure that iniquity shall not arise a second time.

At the same time this will show that God's laws are indeed able to be followed, which is contrary to what Lucifer works so hard at getting many people to believe. He tricked 1/3 of the angels into believing this, and he has done it all throughout human history.

Eternal life is not something that is to be fooled with. Things in this world are getting worse. There are many who think they will have time to repent, that they will "believe it when I see it." This kind of mentality is what Satan thrives on. There will be no second chances when Jesus returns. There will be no 1,000 year reign of Christ here on Planet Earth after a rapture and tribulation. When that eastern sky splits, "It is finished." There will be no time for repentance at that point. You will rise out of your grave to meet Jesus in the air, you will be changed in the twinkling of an eye and then meet Jesus in the air, or you will be destroyed with the brightness of His coming. (When I say "you", I'm not referring to anyone in particular.)

I was very much interested in what you were saying until the last paragraph. Not that it discredits the previous paragraphs, I just thought it was worth noting. I appreciate the information though, and will take it into account

Originally posted by Siberbat

I'm up for a discussion, but calling my God evil or that I worship evil is offensive and hateful.

Perhaps you might take chosen to take offense to it, but it is NOT hateful. For it to have been hateful, I would have had to have been motivated by hatred in my writing of the OP, which I was certainly not. I was rather dispassionate when writing most of it, which I try to do when composing a thread.

You just dont personally agree with the content and opinions, so you brand it "hateful", as has become a common practice among many groups when they are trying to silence their perceived opponents to prevent discourse on a subject.

Originally posted by Siberbat

I don't care if people worship Allah, Brahama, The Source, or nothing at all, but I will defend what I believe in and wont sit back while people mock my faith.

Youre just trying to play the victim card here, but Im not buying it. No body is mocking your faith by giving their own opinions on the subject matter.

since enough parts of the bible predate the bible and so they are plagerizations IN the bible, I don't see how anyone can quote or exept the bible as a reference.


Sin was one of sargons grandsons (eta or great or great great, whatever grandsons )
he deviated from their solar worship by being a moon worshipper

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
ETA: You say that his theory defies logic yet you believe a guy walked on water and rose from the dead. How ironic!

Walking on water would be a piece of cake compared to what YOU believe.

The laws of probability have proved you wrong.

Your argument is a complete impossibility scientifically.

Posted earlier here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Not going to lie.. I've kind of thought along the same line. That's why I follow the words in my heart rather than the words in the Bible.

Your forgetting one of the most fundamental quotations of the scripture straight from Jesus.

Mark 3:23
And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand

And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

Great Thread

What information was in "The Libary of Alexandria?"

Adam and Eve - The Sheeple of the Day?

The Tree of Knowledge - The Libary of Alexandria?

The Apples on the tree - The Books in the Libary?

All that wisdom - gone forever

reply to post by Siberbat


So what if he didn't copy and paste a few bible verses, what matters is his message when put into context with the OT god. He was a mass murderer and killed people by the thousands, that's a fact, read it yourself. A loving god as described in the NT would never commit mass murder on anyone because he says to love one another, you do not kill those that you love and that's exactly what Yahweh did, which makes me think he never loved them at all which means he cannot be god according to the NT.

The NT is only an extension of the OT and was put together by people in the same vein as those who put the OT together, the rich and powerful. The huge contrast between Yahweh and Jesus should be a huge red flag for anyone.

Could you point me to a certain dead sea scroll that has a prophecy that wasn't available to the Romans at the time of Jesus? All 300+ of these prophecies that Jesus supposedly fulfilled in the NT were already in the Torah and had been for many years in Jesus' time. The dead sea scrolls are only the earliest surviving copies, that doesn't mean they weren't in circulation back then.

All they had to do was pick up the Torah and then write in the prophecies in order to make them self-fulfilling. People had tons of paper and ink back then you know.

How is me calling your god evil any different than you believing some other god is evil? I'm only saying what I think, if no one was allowed to state their opinion then there would never be any discussion.

If you don't think Yahweh is evil then you probably worship him, just sayin'.