Patriots don't secede

reply to post by HopSkipJump


I've been called a lot of things. Its water off a duck's back.

The Act of 1871 - "Constitution for the united states for America" was in 1871, changed to the "THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA".

In essence, this Act formed the corporation known as THE UNITED STATES.

www.dailypaul.com...

Or pick your own source. It isn't a secret, its just not taught by public educators. I can't imagine why.

Originally posted by HopSkipJump

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX


"Traitor" is a fairly demeaning term for people who fight for their freedoms. Just saying.

Weather I like it or not doesn't matter.

Being a "traitor" to a tyrannical government doesn't entirely sound the same as being a traitor to your nation. It's not the same thing. But, this is a pretty pointless argument to pursue, so I'll leave it be now.

Just one last thing; just because people want to govern their own lives doesn't make them traitors.

If they secede, then yes, it DOES make them a traitor.

If the "nation" is represented by tyranny, then it is the tyrants that are traitors.

Originally posted by HopSkipJump

Originally posted by nosacrificenofreedom

I know this is what you said also but i was'nt sure whether you read it correctly! You state here that a patriot supports and follows those laws that government slates into being and I will quote "Does it mean they have to adhere to those laws even if they don't agree with them? Yes, it does. If you do not adhere to the laws that exist, you are subject to whatever punishment exists for breaking those laws."
Sometimes we have to know when a law is unjust and as such needs to be ignored and changed! If we agree to being punished, executed or terrorized by a tyrannical and oppressive government I believe we will be unable to change this! As per the up coming elimination of the right to bare arms would restrict our ability to fight a oppressive and tyrannical government! When peaceful revolution becomes impossible violent revolution becomes necessary! To agree to follow unjust laws is oppressive and this is exactly what those elected officials have become! When we are no longer able to get our candidates (the peoples) to participate in primaries or allow third parties to debate we no longer have the democratic process which we don't! If every time we reach for an objective the objective is changed then we are without ethics or justice, then something has to be done as the line to change is moved to prevent it's change then what options do we have?
You can call me a traitor for my inhibitions in following unjust laws and you can consider yourself a patriot but when you are allowing for the oppression of the masses and I am fighting against this oppression then who is the
supporter of the country and the so called patriot here?

edit on 22-1-2013 by nosacrificenofreedom because: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

There are many laws that are unjust and we do have to make choices.

We are not talking about simply a matter of unjust laws.

We are talking about a tyranny that subverts and destroys the Constitutional Rebublic.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by JuniorBeauchamp
Corporatism thrives under a socialist state, with the state and corporations working hand in hand to keep each other in power.

Nazi Germany is a good example.

Read the book, "The Arms of Krupp".

It thrives just as much, if not more, within a capitalist state.

We do not have genuine free enterprise capitalism, and haven't for nearly a century.

Read about the private federal reserve....

The Federal Reserve is not free enterprise capitalism. It is elitist, statist crony capitalism, and illegal, anti-free enterprise, anti-liberty and anti-humanity.

Corporatism is the main branch of capitalism, not the main branch of socialism. Let it sink in!

You are confusing entreprenureal free enterprise capitalism with elitist, statist crony capitalism.

LET IT SINK IN!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by JuniorBeauchamp

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by JuniorBeauchamp

Sorry pal but you are confusing the facist economy that we have for real free enterprise capitalism.

We do NOT have facism!

You seem to have a hard time with reading comprehension.

For the second time, I did not say we have "facism".

Do you know what a qualifier is in English grammar?

I said we have a "facist ECONOMY", cited why, which is a big difference between it and "facism".

Please do learn the difference, and what a qualifier is.

So what the effin difference is there between facism and a facist economy?

I've explained it to you several times already. I suggest you go back and read them again and again and again and again, until you get it, then ask for a refund on the lousy edumacation you got.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

but there is no redistribution of wealth "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs".

Yes, there IS a redistribution of wealth. Maybe you think that statement is entirely relevated to direct labor, but then what truly is the difference, since labor is the mechanism whereby a product is made?
Take two people. One has ill health and the other healthy. THe individual who is healthy works and the individual who is not does not work. Thus in the Communist way, the labor of the worker is divided "evenly" between the two and nobody starves. This is their view of equality. And that is the definition of redistribution of wealth.

It manifests in many ways.

Take the public educational system. One family has kids and one family does not, yet both have to pay the school taxes so the one family can be educate.

How fair is that? It is taking one family's income and transferring it to another. How about familiies who pay no taxes and send their kids to public school? That is true redistribution.
Now barack wants to redistribute more of our income so he can pretend he is saving the country with Nationalized healthcare.

The whole thing is a scam. Everyone gets dragged down. And who makes off with the profit? Why the Federal Reserve does.

That is why we have capitalism in america and the democrats are not socialists.

That's funny, and ill informed.

Most all the democrats in Congress are members of the Socialist Party of Amerika.

Originally posted by HopSkipJump

There is not one single person out there who has spoken of secession who can rightfully call themselves a patriot. They are the polar opposite of a patriot. A patriot supports his/her country/government regardless of who may be in political power at the time. It's shameful and disgusting that they rant and rave about leaving the United States of America and in the next breath CLAIM to be patriots. They are not the same thing, they are complete opposites and the people doing so are nothing but cowardly morons who don't comprehend the basic knowledge of what their country is.

A real patriot would be demanding that these leaders who have sold out our country are tried for treason and either imprisoned or worse. A real patriot would be willing to put everything on the line to secure the future of the country we love, and save it from tyrants that seek to destroy our freedoms. There comes a time when you have to draw a line. We cannot continue to keep getting pushed back in hopes that someday our votes will bring about the change we need. We cannot let our country die while we wait for change.

So you have two options, leave or fight (literally) to change it. To prevent horrible war and thousands of American deaths, I say lets try to leave. If they don't let us then we'll fight.

reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp

You are confusing entreprenureal free enterprise capitalism with elitist, statist crony capitalism.

Sorry friend but cronyism goes way back to 1781 with the First American Bank.

The 1st Bank of North America was deliberately modeled after the Bank of England." The Bank was given a monopoly privilege of its notes being receivable in all tax payments to state and federal government, and no other banks were permitted to operate in the country. It "graciously agreed to lend most of its newly created money to the federal government," wrote Rothbard, and "the hapless taxpayers would have to pay the Bank principal and interest."

mises.org... Read the whold sordid story of our mercantilist beginnings.

Robert Morris (the man put in charge of the 1st bank of NA by the continental congress)

embarked on the most dramatic phase of his career by accepting the office of Superintendent of Finance (1781-84) under the Articles of Confederation. Congress, recognizing the perilous state of the nation's finances and its impotence to provide remedies, granted him dictatorial powers and acquiesced to his condition that he be allowed to continue his private commercial enterprises.

thehistoryprofessor.us... Again, considering the failure of central banking, this is important to know.

Originally posted by MrBigDave

Originally posted by HopSkipJump

There is not one single person out there who has spoken of secession who can rightfully call themselves a patriot. They are the polar opposite of a patriot. A patriot supports his/her country/government regardless of who may be in political power at the time. It's shameful and disgusting that they rant and rave about leaving the United States of America and in the next breath CLAIM to be patriots. They are not the same thing, they are complete opposites and the people doing so are nothing but cowardly morons who don't comprehend the basic knowledge of what their country is.

A real patriot would be demanding that these leaders who have sold out our country are tried for treason and either imprisoned or worse.

Amen to that!

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp

 

You are confusing entreprenureal free enterprise capitalism with elitist, statist crony capitalism.

Sorry friend but cronyism goes way back to 1781 with the First American Bank.

Cronyism goes back much further than that, all the way to the dawn of humanity.

Regardless, it's still confusing cronyism with genuine free enterprise capitalism, which by the way does not include any central bank.

Originally posted by JuniorBeauchamp

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp

 

You are confusing entreprenureal free enterprise capitalism with elitist, statist crony capitalism.

Sorry friend but cronyism goes way back to 1781 with the First American Bank.

Cronyism goes back much further than that, all the way to the dawn of humanity.

Regardless, it's still confusing cronyism with genuine free enterprise capitalism, which by the way does not include any central bank.

Good point, nothing you've said disputes what I posted. I was referring to US cronyism. I understand what free enterprise is ~ it has just never existed concurrently with money changers and monopolistic bankers, so I'd guess its been about six thousand years or so.

But sooner or later this central banking empire is going to crash down around the world's ears and we'd be wise to make sure they don't get a toe hold on the other side of whatever happens next. Gotta know the methods they use in order to stop them from doing it again, and America is probably the easiest to study.

Originally posted by MrBigDave


A real patriot would be demanding that these leaders who have sold out our country are tried for treason and either imprisoned or worse. A real patriot would be willing to put everything on the line to secure the future of the country we love, and save it from tyrants that seek to destroy our freedoms. There comes a time when you have to draw a line. We cannot continue to keep getting pushed back in hopes that someday our votes will bring about the change we need. We cannot let our country die while we wait for change.

So you have two options, leave or fight (literally) to change it. To prevent horrible war and thousands of American deaths, I say lets try to leave. If they don't let us then we'll fight.

If you leave, you are a traitor, if you stay and fight, you can be a patriot. You get to choose, but if you leave, you can't call yourself a patriot, it just doesn't work that way.

reply to post by HopSkipJump

If you leave, you are a traitor, if you stay and fight, you can be a patriot. You get to choose, but if you leave, you can't call yourself a patriot, it just doesn't work that way.

The constant repetition is beginning to affect me like white noise. According to Dr. Oz white noise is great for restful sleep.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

reply to post by METACOMET


The OP seems to hold the view that the founding fathers are patriots to the United States, by the very fact that the founding fathers didn't secede from the United States. Technically they "seceded" from Britain, and to the British I'm sure our founding fathers were considered traitors, not patriots.

I think I see what the OP is getting at...ultimately it seems as though the OP seeks resolution or revolution as opposed to succession. A bold response to troubling times and a much braver way of seeking out a solution if you ask me. It's like the US is ramping up for a flight or fight response to its own government and the OP just seems to be more inclined to fight from a patriotic sense. It actually reflects the way a lot of people feel. Although, assuming I am correct, he did beat around the bush as far as clearly defining what he meant but then again I got it. (assuming I'm not wrong)

Originally posted by GrimReaper86
reply to post by METACOMET

 

The OP seems to hold the view that the founding fathers are patriots to the United States, by the very fact that the founding fathers didn't secede from the United States. Technically they "seceded" from Britain, and to the British I'm sure our founding fathers were considered traitors, not patriots.

I think I see what the OP is getting at...ultimately it seems as though the OP seeks resolution or revolution as opposed to succession. A bold response to troubling times and a much braver way of seeking out a solution if you ask me. It's like the US is ramping up for a flight or fight response to its own government and the OP just seems to be more inclined to fight from a patriotic sense. It actually reflects the way a lot of people feel. Although, assuming I am correct, he did beat around the bush as far as clearly defining what he meant but then again I got it. (assuming I'm not wrong)

YES, YES, and YES!!!

reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom


This thing about Debt is a joke from the context of simply addressing the United States The whole issue of Debt is what makes money worth less over time, in any system available today. 50 years ago the equivalent to 10 American cents could get you a cup of coffee, try explaining that at a Star buck's anywhere in the world.

Take the example of insurance companies (throughout the world). Every accident, theft and act of murder or injury has resulted in an increase in your policy (since it was incorporated into our world system).

Your current payments include increases as a result of problems that occurred 80 years ago, when a cup of coffee was about a dime US. Europe in relation to the problems in Greece, Italy and Spain are issues related to debt and if any economy is failing at present it is Europe and Russia because of this issue.

Wars are pretty stupid but and what is crazy is the permitting corporations to kill citizens because of some financial bottom line.

It is "fuel to the fire".




Any thoughts?

Originally posted by JuniorBeauchamp

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

but there is no redistribution of wealth "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs".

Yes, there IS a redistribution of wealth. Maybe you think that statement is entirely relevated to direct labor, but then what truly is the difference, since labor is the mechanism whereby a product is made?
Take two people. One has ill health and the other healthy. THe individual who is healthy works and the individual who is not does not work. Thus in the Communist way, the labor of the worker is divided "evenly" between the two and nobody starves. This is their view of equality. And that is the definition of redistribution of wealth.

It manifests in many ways.

Take the public educational system. One family has kids and one family does not, yet both have to pay the school taxes so the one family can be educate.

How fair is that? It is taking one family's income and transferring it to another. How about familiies who pay no taxes and send their kids to public school? That is true redistribution.
Now barack wants to redistribute more of our income so he can pretend he is saving the country with Nationalized healthcare.

The whole thing is a scam. Everyone gets dragged down. And who makes off with the profit? Why the Federal Reserve does.

That is why we have capitalism in america and the democrats are not socialists.

That's funny, and ill informed.

Most all the democrats in Congress are members of the Socialist Party of Amerika.

You just make up ANY BS you want, don't you???

You even called JFK a libertarian and conservative in a previous post. Don't make me look it up cause it ain't worth my time. Tell me little man then why was he on the democrat ticket and not on the republican ticket? Does that make him a socialist?

Then you call democrats socialists. If that is the case then why not rename the goddamm party Socialist Party USA? SPUSA already exists for crying out loud. You people are so full of # it is incredible! I voted for Socialist party usa because it makes more sense than the MAKE BELIEVE SOCIALISTS you accuse the democrats of being.

Here it is in "full glory"...



If you hate your country so much then go live in somalia. I heard they have the anarchy you are looking for with ak-47s, grenade launchers and tribal warlords. I am sure you will fit in perfectly there. I hate america just as much as you do BUT FOR DIFFERENT REASONS!

I had it with your bull#!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

America does NOT have a mixed economy.

geeminetly, what friggin textbook did you get in college?

I noticed you just told some guy to go live in Somalia because you think he hates America. That is really an oddball response to his posts if you ask me. I happen to agree with him on much of what he says. Perhaps you are mistaking a desire to stop the Socialist takeover with some kind of hatred. That is where you are sorely mistaken.
It is time to take it back from those Socialist reformers and bring it back to the original intent of the Founders. Unlike you, I can differentiate between the True America I love and grew up with, and the abuses heaped on it by the Elite.

reply to post by Kashai

Any thoughts?

Yes, Zeitgeist was concocted by some Communitarian type people who hate religion.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

Then you call democrats socialists. If that is the case then why not rename the goddamm party Socialist Party USA?

Yes, at this point the Socialist Party has completely infiltrated the Democrat Party and infected it with it's serpentine and parasitic logic. Up to 70 people in Congress have been identifed as members of the Democratic Socialists of America.