Patriots don't secede

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by HopSkipJump

 

you keep saying this ...

If they secede, then they are traitors to the United States

but refuse to answer this ...

how can a person be a traitor to/of a corporation ??

why ??

Using YOUR argument, how can you secede when you're really an aardvark?

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
reply to post by HopSkipJump

 

Regardless of the reasons for seceding, they are traitors, not patriots.

How can you say something so ignorant? Honestly...

Perhaps they feel that the country HAS been over run. If you read between the fine lines, you can see how close our nation is to disaster. Perhaps these states are anticipating it ahead of time. Perhaps they're not BRAINWASHED.

So, what if there were rebels from Nazi Germany? People who revolted against the Nazi way of life, even though it was their own culture? Oh, I guess that makes them traitors, regardless of their reasons...

Yes, it does. You just aren't getting it.

Some of you think that "Patriot" automatically = good and "Traitor" automatically = bad. That's not the way it is.

The founding fathers were traitors to the British crown. They were. They were not patriots, they were traitors.

After the formation of our country, they became patriots to the United States, but they were still traitors to the British crown.

If a state secedes from the United States, those people are traitors to the United States. That's how it works whether you like it or not.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by HopSkipJump

 

I'm a patriot until my country threatens my rights, then I'm a rebel. Any questions?

By the way, I value the Constitution more than a flag. If the red white and blue fails me, I'll remake it.

edit on 22-1-2013 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

You know what each is, you do understand what each word means

Originally posted by HopSkipJump

Originally posted by nosacrificenofreedom
reply to post by HopSkipJump

 

Actually a patriot is and i will quote Bing 1.supporter of own country: a proud supporter or defender of his or her country and its way of life! .

If you look at the OP, that is the EXACT definition I gave for it was it not?

You just shot yourself in the foot.


one more time, Elected leaders are NOT the government, the government is NOT the elected leaders. Opposing the government is not the same thing as opposing the elected leaders.
"opposing the government" is opposing the US Constitution. If you are opposing the government you are a traitor. If you want to say that you oppose the elected officials, fine, say that. That's not traitorous. When you say you oppose the government (The US Constitution), then you are a traitor. When you say you want to secede, you are a traitor. We were traitors to Great Britan. We seceded from their rule, we formed our own country, a government, based on the Constitution. If you oppose that, then you are a traitor to the United States of America.

You can oppose the President all you want, you can oppose the Governor all you want, you can oppose the mayor all you want, but when you oppose the Government (the US Constitution), you are a traitor.

edit on 20-1-2013 by HopSkipJump because: (no reason given)

I know this is what you said also but i was'nt sure whether you read it correctly! You state here that a patriot supports and follows those laws that government slates into being and I will quote "Does it mean they have to adhere to those laws even if they don't agree with them? Yes, it does. If you do not adhere to the laws that exist, you are subject to whatever punishment exists for breaking those laws."
Sometimes we have to know when a law is unjust and as such needs to be ignored and changed! If we agree to being punished, executed or terrorized by a tyrannical and oppressive government I believe we will be unable to change this! As per the up coming elimination of the right to bare arms would restrict our ability to fight a oppressive and tyrannical government! When peaceful revolution becomes impossible violent revolution becomes necessary! To agree to follow unjust laws is oppressive and this is exactly what those elected officials have become! When we are no longer able to get our candidates (the peoples) to participate in primaries or allow third parties to debate we no longer have the democratic process which we don't! If every time we reach for an objective the objective is changed then we are without ethics or justice, then something has to be done as the line to change is moved to prevent it's change then what options do we have?
You can call me a traitor for my inhibitions in following unjust laws and you can consider yourself a patriot but when you are allowing for the oppression of the masses and I am fighting against this oppression then who is the
supporter of the country and the so called patriot here?

Originally posted by Kashai
reply to post by frazzle

 

During the 100 years War, anyone below the rank of Lieutenant was told that the reason he war was fought? Was due to the problem, that the other side picked the wrong side of the shoulder to use first, forming the side of the crucifix. One side was definitively invested in the idea that it was the right shoulder first. While the other side insisted that first would be the left shoulder. Both sides, lieutenant and below were told the same thing and told that the opposite made more sense.

Ok so that is an utterly stupid and/or really psychotic/sociopathic reason for the 100 years war.

Any thoughts?

Most wars are pretty stupid! Today they are faught for profit! While Americans are destroyed through debt! This is the true function of war besides eliminating those states resistant to oppression! God help us.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by frazzle

 

yes, it has ... all the way back to the days of the Magna Carta +73yrs to be exact and Sweden.

what Americans don't realize is it didn't begin here, it was imported.
much like a container on port ... it arrived, it was transported, it was unloaded and eventually displayed ... it didn't happen overnight and has more tentacles than a giant octopus.

yes, many decades of delusion ensued ... no one would deny that.
however, apathy is no excuse to continue voluntarily marching onward to our own demise, agreed ?

ETA -- ya know all those 'tax shelters' of old ???
guess where a majority of them originated ?
sweden ring any bells

addl note -- for those interested ... Sweden's tax reform of the century

edit on 21-1-2013 by Honor93 because: ETA

edit on 21-1-2013 by Honor93 because: add txt

It goes back even further than that. Kings and other rulers throughout history have always played favorites and the favorites always prospered at the expense of the common folk, just as those rulers all kept legions of "paid protectors" to keep the rabble down.

Americans have been taught that such a thing could never happen in a constitutional republic like ours and that meme has become so engrained over years that hardly anyone even blinks at things like government no-bid contracts to companies being sued for prior fraud. Favoritism from the top down has always been SOP in this country. Joe Blow could never have become a railroad baron, not because he couldn't have done the job, but because he didn't know the right people. And yes, titles of nobility may not be allowed on US soil (other than those friggin' esquires), but the philosophy of minor baronies and fiefdoms was imported from Europe right along side the working poor, indentured servants and slaves to serve them. Gotta admit, though, they had some awesome PR going on.

You're right that apathy is no excuse and although the wake up sometimes seems to be coming as slow as molasses going uphill in January, it is coming and the top dogs and their hangers-on are getting very nervous. That's why they're advertiising drones over our towns, passing laws like NDAA and throwing around words like traitor and terrorist.

reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom

Most wars are pretty stupid! Today they are faught for profit! While Americans are destroyed through debt! This is the true function of war besides eliminating those states resistant to oppression! God help us.

"War is a Racket", by Major General Smedley Butler. 1935

www.ratical.org...

Warmongers are racketeers who belong behind bars.

Originally posted by HopSkipJump

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
reply to post by HopSkipJump

 

Regardless of the reasons for seceding, they are traitors, not patriots.

How can you say something so ignorant? Honestly...

Perhaps they feel that the country HAS been over run. If you read between the fine lines, you can see how close our nation is to disaster. Perhaps these states are anticipating it ahead of time. Perhaps they're not BRAINWASHED.

So, what if there were rebels from Nazi Germany? People who revolted against the Nazi way of life, even though it was their own culture? Oh, I guess that makes them traitors, regardless of their reasons...

Yes, it does. You just aren't getting it.

Some of you think that "Patriot" automatically = good and "Traitor" automatically = bad. That's not the way it is.

The founding fathers were traitors to the British crown. They were. They were not patriots, they were traitors.

After the formation of our country, they became patriots to the United States, but they were still traitors to the British crown.

If a state secedes from the United States, those people are traitors to the United States. That's how it works whether you like it or not.

"Traitor" is a fairly demeaning term for people who fight for their freedoms. Just saying.

Weather I like it or not doesn't matter.

Being a "traitor" to a tyrannical government doesn't entirely sound the same as being a traitor to your nation. It's not the same thing. But, this is a pretty pointless argument to pursue, so I'll leave it be now.

Just one last thing; just because people want to govern their own lives doesn't make them traitors.

Originally posted by JuniorBeauchamp

Sorry pal but you are confusing the facist economy that we have for real free enterprise capitalism.

We do NOT have facism! We HAVE international capitalism! What the hell do you think the WTO meetings were and WHO do you think protested AGAINST THEM? You keep saying we have corporatism, but corporatism THRIVES under capitalism, NOT with socialism or communism. After all corporatism is the main branch of capitalism.

Did you go to college and take any business courses? I certainly did. In fact they teach this stuff in accounting 101 during your freshman year.

You cannot seperate corporatism from capitalism! It is called SPLITTING HAIRS! Corporations can be small mom and pop stores that sell dog food or they can be Coca Cola that operates world wide. Get a clue man! Coca Cola is a multinational corporation while the pet store is a local corporation. Do you know anything about commerce?

(The "best part" is you are calling liberals as progressives)

Really, you should learn real history. Progressives of the early 20th century were "liberals", ie-socialist lite.

Since you are ignorant of these facts, I doubt you will ever get it.

No liberals are liberals, conservatives and conservatives and progressives are progressives.

Further one ONLY NEED to check their agenda to see what they stand for.

JFK was a progressive and the international bankers(illuminati masons) killed him to prevent him from nationalising the federal reserve, to prevent him from attacking secret societies, to prevent him from seeking ufo disclosure.

Liberals and conservatives follow orders. They are "yes sir" men.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

ummmm, demonizing masonry IS demonizing socialism ... how did you miss that one ?

No way. In fact it is just the opposite. You can't join the ole boys club unless you are really sucessful business man such as doctor, lawyer, politician. Normally the upper echelons of a capitalist society join masonry and they brag about their donations to charity. It is almost like a religious society, but they study the ancient mysteries and seek answers both as an individual and at the group level.

Normally the relgious right and progressives criticise masonry, but except for them, there are many conservatives and liberals who worship the dollar and the markets. The all seeing eye of horus and the pyramid structure of capitalism aka the ponzi scheme.

Socialism is the workers owning the means of production and keeping the profits for themselves. It IS true that with the exception of local and often ilegal communes, we have NOT had pure socialism or communism. In reality it has been state capitalism and that is why there has been so much statism involved.

at least you admit preference to some form of statism.
thank you for being honest

unfortunately, i cannot agree.

Statism is not always necessarily bad. It is the agenda behind statism that makes or breaks a system.

i have enjoyed capitalism in its purest form ... i'll participate in that anyday.

such as wall street investor that speculates on the world markets? Or just a small time entrepreneur?

this American corporatism has to go, sooner better than later.

I agree 100%!!

without the 'illusion' called currency, my gun is always more valuable than any piece of paper.
even as a paper-weight

guns don't 'bring' freedom, they defend it.
what in the world gave you that idea anyway ?

There isn't that much freedom to defend because the ptb took most of it away already. Conservatives and liberals work towards the one world government run by the UN(which is run by the wealthiest international capitalists and masons), the digital currency, the rfid implants, the 666 sign of the beast, the continous wars climaxing in WW3, the coverup of the ufo/alien agenda, etc.

Big business already left America so why are we left with their bills, their ecological disasters, their manipulative regulations and their over-whelming destruction ???

I agree 100%! I do not support the democrats or the republicans. I think people should start taking secession seriously before more damage happens, maybe even irreversible damage. We don't need the perfect plan at this point. What we need is to disrupt the progress of the one world government, bring it to a stop and hopefully start reversing things.

Originally posted by HopSkipJump

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by HopSkipJump

 

you keep saying this ...

If they secede, then they are traitors to the United States

but refuse to answer this ...

how can a person be a traitor to/of a corporation ??

why ??

Using YOUR argument, how can you secede when you're really an aardvark?

what argument ?? i asked you a question.
one of which you STILL refuse to answer appropriately.

you started this thread, if you didn't care to discuss the issues, why did you start it ??
troll much ?

reply to post by HopSkipJump


They are traitors to the corporation "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, INC." but they are heros to everyone else. Why the hell would anyone want to continue down the path of certain destruction is beyond me.

Americans had their chance at the ballot box quite a bit, and each and every time they sucked up the msm propaganda and voted big party. They never gave libertarians, constitutionalists, socialists, greens, etc a chance. The media is what failed america, and the polticians come second.

If and when states start seccedding from this corporate union, the federal reserve will eventually get fully exposed for what it is, along with the IRS, INC, the big banks that hold shares in that enterprise, the scum politicians and the scum media for what they are.

Secession is probably the only resort left! I enjoy being a traitor to satan and a patriot to god. What about you?

reply to post by HopSkipJump

No dear, you are twisting the twistings of the twistings of the talking heads

Why don't you look it up? Maybe then you can come up with a reasonable rebuttal. US is a corporation. It's members are controlled by statutes, which are corporation policy, not law. Go ahead, be a patriot to your corporation, and I'll be a patriot to the Republic that we used to have before the seats were vacated. Good to know we have now identified what you stand for.

reply to post by frazzle

yes and no.
we were discussing corporations, not a monarchy.

yes, oppression can be seen throughout history, no argument there.

however, with regard to 'corporations and expansion' and where it all began, Sweden is the answer.

you say this ...

Gotta admit, though, they had some awesome PR going on

and i'd have to disagree.
it was ingrained in the settlers and passed on through the generations.
it was not 'intentional' like ppl try to profess.

now developing the CW, the FedRes, the CFR and a whole slew of others since WAS intentional.
that is what we should be addressing, exposing, dismantling.
but no, ppl argue over semantics

yes, it was imported but that doesn't mean we can't send it back.

i've seen the 'wake-up' happen a few different times in my life ... problem is, everyone claims to be too busy to DO anything about it.
hence, apathy.

i am a firm believer that 'slavery' never left us, it merely encompassed all, in a variety of forms, with a central 'authority' holding the whip.
until that changes, nothing will ... the decline will march on, unimpeded.

Originally posted by HopSkipJump
reply to post by StalkerSolent

 

You seem to have a better grasp than several here have. When the founding fathers were working to make us an independent country, they didn't call themselves "Patriots to England" while doing so. They were well aware that their actions were traitorous to England and stated such.

The fringe groups that are screaming to secede don't realize they are not patriots like they say in their very next breath. If they secede, then they are traitors to the United States, not patriots of the United States. It seems near impossible to get that through their heads though.

Those who wish to secede from United States Inc are patriots to the Republic that we used to have. We are trying to get the Republic back but the patriots to the corporation are a big hindrance. Remember this phrase?: and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands. Corporate patriots are traitors to the Republic. Patriots of the Republic are traitors to United States Inc, the foreign-owned, bankrupt corporation. It seems near impossible to get that through their heads though.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

why are you being sooooo dense about this ?

but corporatism THRIVES under capitalism, NOT with socialism or communism.

the 'corporate environment' began in a socialist country ... it all started there.

it expanded from there and it encompasses practically the entire world.
you can continue to dismiss the truth, all you want, it won't change it.

Sweden's socialist based society can be model for America

no, corporatism raided capitalism and polluted it.

Did you go to college and take any business courses? I certainly did. In fact they teach this stuff in accounting 101 during your freshman year.

no kidding ... ever think that's why so many here talk about de-programming you and those like you ??

it's not splitting hairs, it's fact.

how many of those mom & pop stores were forced to incorporate just to survive ???
then bled dry by the corporate system ??
until you do, you haven't learned much.

JFK a progressive ??????
now that's one of the funniest re-writes i've read yet

reply to post by Honor93


The first business operation to have been incorporated was indeed in sweden, at least what is easily traceable.

BUT corporation has its roots in latin meaning..."corpus" aka "a body of people". This is the generic definition of corporation.

reply to post by Honor93


Corporatism thrives under capitalism in that it operates by the rules of input vs output.Socialism and communism puts an emphasis on the sharing of resources, whereas capitalism focuses on taking advantage of opportunities. 1% takes 99% of the wealth because it controls the conditions by which the corporations operate, and the corporations support them because the legislators are saving them lots and lots of money.

Corporate capitalism is a terrible practice because the more you think like a wolf, the more you act like one. You only care about what's important in your life, and to hell with everything else. Bury the bodies and pay the country to turn its back.

"It wasn't useful anyway" you say. "It was dead weight."

And it doesn't take a lot to become dead weight. Promise to tell the truth, and you will be sacrificed. The god of fear doesn't discriminate. If you are a pure red-blooded American patriot, you can only secede if the country you live in is no longer the country you were born in. Anything else is betrayal. When the United States of America is no longer fit for its name, that's when it's time to either take a stand or disappear. If you're not going to help find a solution, then you sure as hell better not become part of the problem.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

Has it been discussed that any states that seceded would be taking their share of the national debt?

Not if the State goes back to being a state in the union of states. Meaning the Republic. States are sub-corporations of United States Inc. If they pull out of the corporation, they will not have to share in the US Inc debts. People can do this too. Give up the status of US citizen and become an American again, you won't be held as collateral for the debt when Corp US defaults on it's obligations.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

why are you being sooooo dense about this ?

but corporatism THRIVES under capitalism, NOT with socialism or communism.

the 'corporate environment' began in a socialist country ... it all started there.

it expanded from there and it encompasses practically the entire world.
you can continue to dismiss the truth, all you want, it won't change it.

Sweden's socialist based society can be model for America

no, corporatism raided capitalism and polluted it.

Did you go to college and take any business courses? I certainly did. In fact they teach this stuff in accounting 101 during your freshman year.

no kidding ... ever think that's why so many here talk about de-programming you and those like you ??

it's not splitting hairs, it's fact.

how many of those mom & pop stores were forced to incorporate just to survive ???
then bled dry by the corporate system ??
until you do, you haven't learned much.

JFK a progressive ??????
now that's one of the funniest re-writes i've read yet

I am not dense at all. I am not a political fanatic of any political system as you and a few others are, so I can entertain different political ideologies/systems without acting like a blowhard. Yes I have left tendencies just like you seem way right on the political spectrum. So what? Keep blaming socialism for everything. I don't really give a rats ass.

Just to prove you are arguing nonsense...golf started in scotland but came to america and thrived. Probably cause america has more time. money, creativity then scots do. Likewise the first corporation started in sweden in small scale until it came to america and thrived.

Where something originates and where something thrives are two different concepts. Europe is much older and richer in history than america, so naturally things have originated there. Even more so in the middle east and asia. Arabs gave us algebra, chineese gave us gun powder, japaneese gave us sushi.