The Free Will Conspiracy of the Bible

Free will is a thorn in God's side and something he hates and would rather not have to deal with.

Free will, as far I have researched, is nowhere mentioned in the Bible. I do believe that the God of the Old Testament knew that humanity had it, but he didn't give it to us. God uses every trick in the "book" to try to get us to give up our free will in order to truly follow him, including lies, bribery, coercion and threats.

Surely, this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too hard for you, nor is it too far away…

See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, death and adversity. If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God that I am commanding you today, by loving the Lord your God, walking in his ways, and observing his commandments, decrees, and ordinances, then you shall live and become numerous, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to possess.

But if your heart turns away and you do not hear, but are led astray to bow down to other gods and serve them, I declare to you today that you shall perish…I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Choose life so that you and your descendants may live…. (Deut. 30:11–19)

In the Bible, God acts like a robber with a gun saying "Give me what I want, or I'll kill you!"

According to the Bible, God loves to discourage free will, condemn it, to take it away and distort humanity's ability for critical thinking.

No amount of free will is going to save these folks singled out below, so why do believers say that free will is the reason why God allows people to sin? That he want's us to choose to follow him and his commandments. Why bother trying to preach to unbelievers when God already decided their fate, before they were born? God made me an unbeliever, according to scripture.

"God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned." -- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

"For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old, ordained to this condemnation." -- Jude 4

"Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began." -- 2 Timothy 1:9

Paul reconfirms our lack of free will, and who will be saved and who will be damned according to God, in his letter to the Romans. Is Paul is trying to convince us that free will is an illusion, and we really have none?

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate.... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." -- Romans 8:29-30

"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. .... For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?

Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction." -- Romans 9:11-22

Who am I to have free will over God's will!?

Freewill does exist on earth, because we can physically do anything we are physically capable of doing. What we can't be free to do, is believe something that our critical thinking skill informs us "does not compute."

This video humorously illustrates two Gods, one who respects humanity's free will to make mistakes, and one who doesn't.



Did the God of the Old Testament give us free will? Is there a conspiracy, within the pages of the Bible, to get us to surrender our "God given" free will using the illogical justification that you never had it in the first place?

I believe that there is!

Brilliant observation, SnF!

This song is just phenomenal by the way



The knowledge of Good and Evil is what caused us to lie
Caused us to die
Let your emotions be crucified
Renounce all your thoughts
Repent and let your mind be re-taught
You'll find what you sought...was based on the deception you bought
A perception of naught
Where the majority remains caught

Loving a lie
Not realizing in Adam, all die

Lauren Hill.

This song is just phenomenal by the way

Deleted.. Not sure what I'm trying to say...

Do not forget in the old testament where God turned the pharoah's heart in the old testament. He had no choice whatsoever as the verse was written.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
Deleted.. Not sure what I'm trying to say...

edit on 10-1-2013 by AwakeinNM because: (no reason given)

That's cool. I hope you repost when you get your thoughts together.

I have a tendency to see like this; God is a selfish toddler throwing a tantrum. A kid with a magnifying glass over an ant hill. A teenager who holds the remote of an electric dog collar. All who are under him have the "free will" to go wherever they choose, but the path, even slightly off course from where he determines it, is detrimental.
Rules have been created that he himself has already broken. ie The commandments: he has done them all
Lies and contradictions are common place in "his" world
I have no place in my life for the god created by men. I seek true God in my heart, without boundaries or rules or contradictions.

reply to post by windword


This is good Win.
SnF

So you believe there is a conspiracy in the Canon as you have lay out very nicely ? Alright now, can you I.D. the Perp ?

I dunno....

I live my life one way,I go to heaven...

I live my life another way,I go to hell...

Gee whiz,that seems more like an ultimatum than free will.

Maybe I'm just crazy....

Originally posted by MyHappyDogShiner
I dunno....

I live my life one way,I go to heaven...

I live my life another way,I go to hell...

Gee whiz,that seems more like an ultimatum than free will.

Maybe I'm just crazy....

Isn't that more cause and effect rather than ultimatum? Problem even with that though is that there are too many variables, too many unknowns. (So we are still, probably ,mathematically screwed. )

reply to post by randyvs


Can I ID the perp? LOL

Perhaps the God of the OT is an imposter? Maybe much of the Bible was penned by the ruler of the world...........Dum dum dum dum..........SATAN?





Seriously though, I think that if these old gods were real, Krishna, Zeus and Yahweh, I think they were "Ancient Aliens, that behaved badly.

reply to post by windword


If you believe there is conspiracy you must have a perpetrator in mind. I'm not sure who you would say. So I'm asking.

reply to post by randyvs


What? You don't like my reply? I do think that the God of the Old Testament was a liar. I think that Paul was a conniving liar too.

Was Yahweh really Satan, the rebellious one? Maybe. Was Paul a tool of Satan's? Maybe.

reply to post by windword


Man does not have free will. There is only one really major choice that is given via free will, and that is choose to believe, or not believe.

Even then, it's all a perception of free will.

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by windword

 

Man does not have free will. There is only one really major choice that is given via free will, and that is choose to believe, or not believe.

Even then, it's all a perception of free will.

Man has free will to believe what?

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by windword

 

Man does not have free will. There is only one really major choice that is given via free will, and that is choose to believe, or not believe.

Even then, it's all a perception of free will.

Man has free will to believe what?

In God, or no God

Weird how I was thinking the same exact thing earlier today.

Believe in me, worship me, or else you go to hell. But I forgive.

Contradictions..... hypocrisy... two words that come to mind when talking about the bible and God.

reply to post by jhill76


Okay....?

How does this God present the question, "Do you believe in me?" Does he rely on the interpretations of him, from religious texts? Is there a specific text that he particularly identifies with, as a description of his nature, that we are free to believe or disbelieve?

Why is belief so important, that it would become our only freedom? Why doesn't he make his nature known, without ambiguity?

reply to post by windword

I do think that the God of the Old Testament was a liar.

Or, the OT speaks of how God is according to man.

reply to post by windword


Within the realm of christian religion this wouldn´t make sense I guess. God created the whole thing, he wouldn´t have created something he didn´t want to create.

You just said that god made a mistake, it doesn´t work that way.

I agree though that the testaments are full of violent and weird behavior of god.

reply to post by windword

How does this God present the question, "Do you believe in me?" Does he rely on the interpretations of him, from religious texts? Is there a specific text that he particularly identifies with, as a description of his nature, that we are free to believe or disbelieve?

He doesn't ask man this at all. If a person is good, do unto others good, he will make it in. There are many paths to him. Christians, Muslims, Jews, are all correct in their own way, it's the details that they differ over. As long as said religion teaches the basics of being good, above views this as good.

Why is belief so important, that it would become our only freedom? Why doesn't he make his nature known, without ambiguity?

Even to the angels above, he keeps much information from. There is only one angel above that is even allowed to know of Fathers thoughts. Life here is just a big test. You learn, you grow, and you go back home. Man makes it harder than what it is.

The belief is important, because you listen to the words that are given, as far as loving and being good to others.