Schools closing and 2nd teen dies of flu in MN; she had flu shot

Originally posted by Waldy
I think your paranoia is clouding your common sense here. It is not the vaccines fault, the vaccine is to protect the whole population and society from possible outbrake. The vaccine sometimes doesnt work and people do get sick. The fact that this poor girl didnt survive should stress the importance of getting the vaccine even more. The flu is deadly!

NO, most definitely not, the crux of the issue is an ineffective immunisation, period. they claim it's 60% effective? really? what if it was only 6% or rather minus 40% (think about it), would the tell you? didn't think so.

These people will have to run double blind studies on these vaccines to prove them worthwhile, as it stands they might as well be snake oil. Posts like yours are the main reason i cannot the apologists seriously, whenever some quack attempts to actually curse people and fails, which happens, you people are the first in line to cast rocks, but when the shoe is on the other foot...

Apologia.


Can it be 100% effective? nope, but 90% or more would be a useful goal, that way you aren't relying on chance so much and the argument for compulsory snake oil wold diminish. Let's be clear here, herd immunity is superstition, the only reason the jabbers wish to inflect compulsory vaccination on others is their belief they can extend their Stockholm syndrome to the rest. Precious few people will ever admit having been conned and burnt, they will defend what happened to them, lest they come across as weak and detached...

reply to post by Long Lance


I dont know the exact percentage of effectiveness, the 60% number came from a post in this thread but 60% is better than nothing, in fact way better when it comes to as infectious virus as this. With no vaccination lots of people would die and whole cities would get sick with catastrophic effect on economy!

Of course there is regulation and tests when it comes to something like vaccination, however, things can always be done better and my personal view is that nobody should be profiting from it. Greed, anger....suffering

reply to post by Razziazoid


Careful; people forget they have immune-systems for fighting germs!!!

Instead, they think it beneficial to get something to lower their immune-system, it's like treating radiation (cancer) with more radiation!

The irony

Here's a bit of information - This report takes a look at the strain of flu and whether vaccines are working.

Flu Outbreak spreads to 44 states as media drops the ball

Some states are reporting that they are having their worst flu outbreak in at least a decade. The study says that everything is being done to try to prevent this from being that bad, yet it is. Vaccines are required of health workers and drug stores are pushing it on everyone else, yet its breaking out in big numbers and with much more potency.

This quote explains how the vaccine is prepared.

So what went wrong? One alarming possibility is that this year’s vaccine against influenza is not well matched to the current disease-causing strains. This exposes a significant problem in the modus operandi of influenza-vaccine production—it’s mired in techniques and approaches developed before World War II; in fact, soldiers from that war were among the first to get this brand of vaccine. Here’s how it works: each year, around February, world experts select from a menu of dozens just three influenza strains—two of flu A and one of flu B—to place into the coming season’s vaccine. More than three would require a shot with too large a volume and might blunt the body’s immune response. Once selected, the three viruses are grown painstakingly, on hen’s eggs (what year is this?). Then, after a big-enough crop has been raised, the virus is killed, stabilized, and sent around for injections—all on the hope that the experts guessed right.

And also from the article:

To date, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has found strong agreement between the vaccine strains and the current clinical strains, suggesting the vaccine ought to work just fine. But some clinicians have their doubts. This much activity, is the thinking, can only be due to extremely limited protection from vaccine.

Article goes on to talk about where the media is on this epidemic. He says that maybe its because the body count is less than in other outbreaks. The numbers are high but not the death count, apparently. He also goes to bat for the vaccine in the end citing that because they got the vaccine wrong this year it shows how fast an outbreak can reach epidemic numbers, in other words, if they had gotten it right in matching the strains to the vaccine, we wouldn't be seeing the outbreak.

Originally posted by Waldy
reply to post by Long Lance

 

I dont know the exact percentage of effectiveness, the 60% number came from a post in this thread but 60% is..

i don't know either, all i know is that i'm extremely suspicious when it comes to rounded percentages and won't go into detail as long as reliable data on this vaccine's actual effectiveness remains lacking. no need to speculate on such matters but the retreating battle fought over many medical mainstay treatments does not bode well, imho.

concede only as much as you have to and interject some FUD on the way. I want to see straight dope or the whole issue starts to progressively look even worse.

PS: what happened to beta blockers again? www.abovetopsecret.com...

what about cholesterol-mania? how long will it take, 'cause it's realistically only a matter of time. Fluoride? snake oil has a rich and colorful history, you know, so it's not entirely unexpected, is it?

Originally posted by iSHRED
When I was in the Marine Corps I tried refusing a flu shot because like some of you said, i wouldn't get sick until I got the shot. So I made it about a week of refusing the shot, and it went all the way to my commanding officer and i had to talk to him. Me not getting the shot is aka disobeying an order. To avoid trouble i got the shot, and sure enough, 2 days later my nose is running, i have a fever and im sneezing like crazy. I'm out now and no one will scare me into getting another one.

You must have already came into contact with it...you can't get the flu from the vaccine, and it takes 2 weeks to come into full effect.

I have to goto ER tomorrow because there is a botfly in my leg. I am wearing a mask!!

Originally posted by tmar11

You must have already came into contact with it...you can't get the flu from the vaccine, and it takes 2 weeks to come into full effect.

Every news report out there right now is saying that 33% of flu cases were people who had received the shot. They are admitting it now and reversing course. Also, reading through this thread there are several members here at ATS who said they caught the flu after they had received the shot. The latest headline..."The shot is 60% effective"

I've had the flu shot twice in my life. Once in 2002, and then a few weeks ago. With each one I had a mild cold about a week after receiving it, but I wouldn't necessarily blame that on the shot (especially since I work in a public library now and people cough and sneeze on everything). The only time I've ever had the flu was during the swine flu outbreak, and that was probably the worst I've ever felt in my life (and I've been through major rounds of chemotherapy and radiation, so that's pretty bad). It seems like half the people I know are sick with something. Whatever it is that is out there, its a rough bug. I'm not completely sold on the effectiveness of the flu shot, but it you want to get one I say go ahead and get one.

Stay safe and healthy everyone.