Why is it that people with no knowledge of communism are so against it?

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
I argue practice and history.

Which is what I do. Show me the dictionary definitions and I will argue against them. I have no idea where you're getting this from? I argue that Communism is not what you claim it is by HISTORY. By reading the works of the original socialists.

ME being wrong has nothing to do with communism being a horrible political ideology for what ever people are fooled into TRYING to adapt it. That is yet another ad hominem.

Hmm you are wrong because it isn't a horrible political ideology, it is an ECONOMIC system that requires no government. What they had in the USSR was a horrible political ideology, but once again the USSR was not communist.

Why do you ignore my question?

How can ANARCHISTS be socialists, and communists, by your definition?

If you can't answer that question then you should be honest about it, with me and yourself.

reply to post by ANOK


I have not mentioned Anarchists except to respond to your question, which I answered. I spoke only of communism, Go ahead check, done? Yeah, I spoke of communism. I have not mentioned socialism or anarchism except to answer you since you are bent on mixing them together and then attributing such confusion to me so as to construct YET ANOTHER ad-hominem attack of me, rather than my argument.

I stand by my posts which covered personal family history dealing with communism and its terrible practices.

You have said everyone who is NOT communists. Who then IS communist?

Because by your own words, no one has been. So where is the historical reference you say you spoke of.

Your entire argument rests on the need to mention other forms of political ideology and muddle the conversation talking about them. Do ME the favor of addressing communism as I laid it out in my response to the OP instead of trying to turn this into a Symantec argument .

reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy


I disagree, but I respect the fact that you have a different opinion than I do on how you should live your life.

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame

Actually it worked in Spain before Franco's coup. Care to explain how it did't work? Doubt it.

No it didn't work.
The Communist party in Spain was modeled after the Communists from Russia, Lenin himself dedicated hundreds of hours talking to Spanish Communists.
They, the communists murdered everyone who opposed them, as did Franco. Both were wrong.
The Spanish Communist party split into two different parties because some of them didn't agree with Lenin's Communism, then they reunited under one party, but it's not the fairy tale you're trying to convey here.
They killed a lot of people also.
Their symbol "La Antorcha", is the symbol of enslavement, the symbol of the secret cabals.
The country and half of Europe was under mind control, through the use of black propaganda by such groups as the black hand who were an active group back in the day in south Spain.
You don't know what you're talking about.
For me, all the political models we've been presented with are not good enough, including Democracy, but Communism and Fascism surpasses anything we've ever seen.
You, your family, your friends, your possessions, their possessions, your ideas and their ideas all belong to the state.
Good bye.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by ANOK

 

is that all you advocates can do, throw dictionaries at people?

I am not throwing the dictionary at you.

Can you answer my question?

How can anarchists be socialists? Please explain how that, according to you, contradiction works because that alone proves you are wrong.

They can be socialists. Every human being is, at times, a socialist. Any time more than one human are in contact there can be socialism. It can be very short lived while in effect. You are probably socialist 3% of the time.

I don't like communism because I don't like to wait in line for 5 hours for a loaf of bread.

Originally posted by Malcher
They can be socialists. Every human being is, at times, a socialist. Any time more than one human are in contact there can be socialism. It can be very short lived while in effect. You are probably socialist 3% of the time.

Socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production, anything else is just peoples ideas of how it should be organised.. None of us are actually socialists.

Just like people who support capitalism, but work for wages, are not capitalists.

Those terms are not lables, they are economic systems. I am not an economic system I am a Human Being, I am not an animal! (lol)

If you want to have a clear understanding of communism...

You MUST look at WHO is behind it and understand what the REAL agenda behind it is.

Just like everything else in life, it ISN'T what it appears to be.

"One group and one group alone is responsible for virtually all wars and bloodshed on the face of this planet. The cabalist group I refer to is The Synagogue of Satan, an ancient, yet modern, elite so politically powerful and so fabulously wealthy that even past history has been twisted, reshaped, and revised to meet its preferred version of humanity's gloomy, totalitarian future."

Their goal to depopulate the world... PERIOD.

Originally posted by Frankenchrist
I don't like communism because I don't like to wait in line for 5 hours for a loaf of bread.

But Russia was not communist, thus the bread lines had nothing to do with communism. Read through the thread if you want to know why.

I seem to remember having to line up for bread just yesterday at Safeway lol. In fact for all my groceries, the lines were quite long.

reply to post by ParaSpy2012


spoken like a boss....

You are absolutely correct. Spain had its elections stolen by a Marxists insurgency and then once in power it did NOTHING for the common man, even though it promised the world.

The biggest issue was land reform, which the republic never touched. It wanted to simply seize the rich people´s land and give it to the poor. OK, what do you do when the poor then become the rich? These reasons were why most people of the day and long after considered the republic a failure. Only revisionist communists of our day think it was a success.

You are the man.

Communism is a form of organized crime just like the mafia.

You have the party elite and and the party workers and you have the people controlled by them. in Russia and Cuba you had special stores for the party elite(nomenklatura) and everyone else stood in long lines to get what was left,

They had access to foreign merchandise, preference in obtaining housing, access to dachas and holiday resorts, being allowed to travel abroad, as perks of being party elite.

This is not saying the US government does not have the same Type party elite. people like Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) and Senator Chuck Schumer (D-NY)

Cases in point Dianne Feinstein rabid anti gun but has here own gun for protection because she is Elite.

Senator Schumer possesses an "unrestricted" pistol permit, a rarity in New York City.. So it's evident that Senator Schumer has two sets of rules -- one for Americans and one for the elite..

Barbara Boxer also has a very very hard to get concealed carry permit from California.

reply to post by ANNED


Russia, Cuba, China, not communist. Broken record, but people just keep repeating the same lies over and over.

What happened in those nations is not what the communists wanted. The real communists apposed the Bolsheviks.

Left-wing uprisings against the Bolsheviks were a series of rebellions and uprisings against the Bolsheviks led or supported by left wing groups including Socialist Revolutionaries, Left Socialist Revolutionaries, Mensheviks, and anarchists. Some were in support of the White Movement while some tried to be an independent force. The uprisings started in 1918 and continued through the Russian Civil War and after until 1922. In response the Bolsheviks increasingly abandoned attempts to get these groups to join the government and suppressed them with force.

Left-wing uprisings against the Bolsheviks

reply to post by ANOK


WHO is or was communist then?

Originally posted by ANNED
Communism is a form of organized crime just like the mafia.

You couldn't be any more correct.

The reason this is so true is simply because Communism and organized crime BOTH have the same exact source...

The purpose of the New World Order is the same as Communism. The Illuminati created Communism as a means to flaunt God's will and enslave mankind. Marx duped the masses by pretending to espouse equality. He was a Satanist as were Trotsky, Lenin and Stalin. Communism is in essence Satanism empowered.

OUR LUCIFER-LOVING ELITE

Why is it that people with no knowledge of communism are so against it?

The basic info .. all you need to know ... Mass killings under communist regimes

Soviet Union, Red Terror, Great Purge (Yezhovshchinam), Great purge in Mongolia, Peoples Republic of China, Cambodia (Democratic Kampuchea, The Killing Fields, Bulgaria, East Germany, 'The Berlin Wall', Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Starvations across N. Korea, Democratic Republic of Vietnam, People's Democratic Republic of Ethiopia, Soviet famine of 1932–1933 (genocide), Mass deportations of ethnic minorities, Tibet, mass killings of Christians in China .... etc etc etc

I was just going to add to the 3% remark that 3% is an average for humans, imho.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by Malcher
They can be socialists. Every human being is, at times, a socialist. Any time more than one human are in contact there can be socialism. It can be very short lived while in effect. You are probably socialist 3% of the time.

Socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production, anything else is just peoples ideas of how it should be organised.. None of us are actually socialists.

Just like people who support capitalism, but work for wages, are not capitalists.

Those terms are not lables, they are economic systems. I am not an economic system I am a Human Being, I am not an animal! (lol)

edit on 1/3/2013 by ANOK because: (no reason given)

It is human beings that these systems are based off of, this is the key issue that people who read these old books leave out, without realizing it, i may add.

In your first sentence is one form of what may be considered socialism. Dont forget services where there is no production, meaning no physical product is being produced. These are public schools, garbage collection, mail distribution...or dont you think these are socialist?

Another thing that always confused me is that whole thing during the 60s with the hippies. These are the last people who would want communism. But you know, a long time ago an old man sat down next to me and turned to me...looked me right in the eyes and said - we are our own worst enemies. There was a little more to it, but this was the most profound moment of my life.

Originally posted by Malcher
Another thing that always confused me is that whole thing during the 60s with the hippies. These are the last people who would want communism. But you know, a long time ago an old man sat down next to me and turned to me...looked me right in the eyes and said - we are our own worst enemies. There was a little more to it, but this was the most profound moment of my life.

Awesome story...

Also the Occupy movement is another perfect example of this.

The OWS ties to communism are so blatant that is beyond obvious.

FlyersFan is absolutely correct...

Communist governments are mass murderers and have always been behind the worst crimes committed against humanity.

Basically it is serial killing on a MASSIVE scale.

Over 395 million people lost their lives by "DEATH BY GOVERNMENT".

The majority of those were most likely by communist governments.

Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by NysgjerrigDame
those of you whom have truly stuied the communist works, what is your argument against it?

It has never worked in any country, anywhere.

It's never been implemented in any country anywhere! Every single "communist" country is actually a dictatorship run for the benefit of the few. Exactly the same as a capitalist country! The benefit of calling yourself communist is that you can con the people into being subservient to the state. Capitalists do exactly the same thing by stating that everyone can be rich if they work hard and the reason why you are not is because you don't want to work hard. Both systems result in people working their butts off whilst those at the top cream off the spoils and live with obscene wealth.

NB the chinese "communists" are getting a little worried because the people are starting to see the chinese millionaire leaders for what they are.

NB where did the billionaires in Russia come from.

Sheeesh wake up neither was/is communist as stated by Carl Marx.

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame


I studied the Communist Manifesto a few years back when I was more left wing than I am these days. I was more a socialist before.

It is a totally man made ideology. It was and still is very dangerous and destructive.

What disturbs me most about it is that it is utterly godless. Religion is no part of it. For me that is disastrous because I view creation as mind, body and SPIRIT, too!

Also, it denies nature. It denies ideas springing from the very soil of nature and our unconscious.

For a man like me communism is death I guess.