Why is it that people with no knowledge of communism are so against it?

Originally posted by St Udio
reply to post by NysgjerrigDame

 

the early Christian Cult operated as a Communistic system...

communism: Definition from Answers.com

n. often Communism a theory or system of social organization in which all .... The
slogan from each according to his ability, to each according to his need' ...
www.answers.com/topic/communism

enough said on why i am against both

edit on 3-1-2013 by St Udio because: (no reason given)

I fail to see which part of bolded part strikes you most offensive? Can you maybe explain further?

Thanks

Your title says: Why is it that people with no knowledge of communism are so against it?

My reply would be: Because they've heard from people who have lived under communism and have a great knowledge about that idiotic system.

Communism hasnt done any good to the world.millions killed cause of it take an example ukraine 1932-33,Mao Zedong,Stalin,dictators mass murderers.
Furthermore many of the Bolshevik party leaders including Grigory Zinoviev, Moisei Uritsky, Lev Kamenev, Yakov Sverdlov, Grigory Sokolnikov, and Leon Trotsky were jewish including Stalin.So i worder why they even call it russian revolution and not jewish revolution.
Not to mention the last gulag camp was closed 1965.
Oh and why doesnt hollywood film hundreds of movies about the bad communists and only nazis?hmmmm
Well i could go on and on,actually i dont see a reason Not being against communism...

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
I have lived in communism and am living the Democracy now. My country was a part of the former Yugoslavia, before the break up in 1990.

The country was more or less thriving under the Tito regime. National industry was pretty strong. Hundreds of factories dispersed all over the country. My folks and I were living much easier than today.

It was a time of social sensitivity. Profit came last. There were no dollar hungry corporations back then. Jobs were much less stressful, the pressure wasn't that high. The industry was nationalized. People's jobs and survival of the community came first. The country was producing enough to feed it's people with minimum import of goods and resources. It wasn't paradise, but it wasn't too bad to tell you the truth. We didn't have LCD's and smartphones back then, but overall...people were able live decent lives.

All that changed when Tito died in 1980. He was an authority figure. He wasn't corrupt. Respected and admired. Not like some Korean dictators liked...but truly liked. People weep for him even to this day. After he died, the West was pretty eager to break the Yugoslavia apart....

you know why? Because it worked. The system worked. But it wasn't succeptable to outside influence, which bothered many. So they made sure...

Today...living in democracy...this is the result. My country is "independent" now. 90 % percent of the national industry is destroyed. Privatization was used to extract money from whatever was left on a national level. Unemployment is always rising. But, we have Mcdonald's and KFC's now. Entering the EU now in 6 months time will crush the rest of the local industry (under the EU law).

We live on credit today. Predictions are dire. The new age democracy politicians are now stealing money left and right (our Premiere is now on trial for theft, facing 10-15 years in prison). National Industry is long gone...we depend now on import, we were ordered to import, and ordered to quash the few remaining branches of our industry, to facilitate the entrance of big west corporations...we are now...slaves.

Was communism bad? Perhaps to some, it was trampling on some individual freedoms. And perhaps I don't have the entire picture. But on thing I can tell you for sure...as far as simple living of a common man...switching to democracy gave us no progress, at least it didn't in my country.

I second this and have to ask you Mario is Croatia really joining the EU, last I heard was that EU said for membership approval the Adriatic coast and islands would no longer be under Croat control and the EU would take ownership of the area but the Tujman Gov. declined.

The common man in the 70-80s in Yugoslavia had a much better life than the common man in todays Croatia.

Destroy what would create unity if not and the masses unite, then who do you think will call the shots.

Communism is, or to be precise was, an ECONOMIC system... But today is morphed to be a label to be anything anti-capitalism. Long time ago Communism and Socialism were understood as synonyms but they are not the same thing.

When an organization (government) own the means of production, you don't have a communist system YET because someone, in this case gov, own the means of production.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Dispo
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Your entire post is countered with the OP.

Most so-called communists just use that fact that communism is most logical and makes the most common sense to become dictators. Examples are the USSR, cuba, North Korea, etc. But nobody ever talks about Spain before Franco's coup.

I am stating my case why it doesn't work.

Which is countered with the OP,

did you just read the title and respond?

Many if not a majority of replies to this thread has proven the thread title to be one of the most factual and on the spot titles to date

I don't really care about communism or capitalism or even botulism.

I just wanted to check in to state that the OP has already answered their own question myriad times throughout this thread. So I don't really see the point of carrying on.

If the OP is genuinely befuddled and not just looking for a fight, then I would suggest that the OP go back and read through their own replies, piece together the answer and move on with life.

Hope that helps...

reply to post by InhaleExhale

I second this and have to ask you Mario is Croatia really joining the EU, last I heard was that EU said for membership approval the Adriatic coast and islands would no longer be under Croat control and the EU would take ownership of the area but the Tujman Gov. declined. The common man in the 70-80s in Yugoslavia had a much better life than the common man in todays Croatia. Destroy what would create unity if not and the masses unite, then who do you think will call the shots.

Well, come 6 months time, we will be officially, the 28th country in the EU, if I'm not mistaken. Unless some groundbreaking event happens. Only if the EU falls apart by that time.

As for your reference to control of the islands and the coast...I think it goes along the lines of foreigners being allowed to buy islands and parts of the coast...which are protected property...not sure about the circumstances on that one. But as far as that goes, yes...we have been forced to accept all EU demands, including that one. We are eagerly waiting for the big sale, if you know what I mean.


Sorry for the quick off topic OP

My girlfriend grew up under communism and witnessed the change to 'capitalism'. You can read all the books you like and discuss and fantasize all you wish, but unless you've lived under this dark, oppressive regime you are merely p***ing in the wind. I now live in this same country and I can tell you first hand that the regime corrupted, coerced and destroyed any will that people may of had and replaced it with fear, cynicism and despair.

I know you die-hard communist supporters will jump in and say Oh but this was not true communism, to you I say, its the closest thing we've ever had and its not a true representation of communism, but thats what passed in the real world... Defend it all you wish.

Democracy and capitalism now exist here and organised crime have taken full advantage of the situation, corruption is rife, there are a large number of people eating and living out of trashbins and a whole section of society who are truly lost. These are just a few things that both communism and the eventual move to capitalism has done to one of the oldest civilizations in the world.

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame


It does not work because people are only born equal, they do not remain equal as they age. And some people are better at things, and some of those people are corrupt.

Thus communism always fails.

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame


In a perfect world........
There would be no greed. If there was no greed, then everyone would contribute equally to society and each would be taken care of by that same entity. They would do their respective jobs, smiling all the while, then go home to their apartments, always being careful to limit their child making to the appropriate number of children determined by the government. The Doctor next door would collect the same benefits as the garbage collector in the apartment above him. Yes, utopia. Until.........DUN DUN DUN!!!! someone gets greedy and thinks they deserve just a bit more than others. Then it all starts to unravel quite quickly. The Doctor sees the shop keeper revolting about his wages being the same as the garbage collector! He should be paid more, he has more responsibilities! Then the Doctor starts to think about all his training and hard work. He thinks he should defect and move to a capitalist country and make some real money. Then all the other doctors jump on that bandwagon. Soon after that everyone dies a horrible death. See why communism just doesn't work?

commuinism is just stupid plain and simple. plain and simple. dont work will never work and when someone gets on a high horse bout how communism could work. you look like the college town revoultiany you really are. so finish up college and join the real world. its an infintile and idealistic world view that dose not make sense.

It doesn't work.
Never has.
Never will.

And for one very simple reason.
LIBERTY.

do you think people are happy when the government dictates,
Where they live
What to eat
What color car they drive
How many children they can conceive
How much water their toilet can flush
What kind of light bulb they must use.

Or do you think that just maybe people are most happy when they have the "LIBERTY"
To choose these things for themselves.

I know what a crazy thought.
Right?

Give me liberty, or give me death.

reply to post by cconn487


His inventions were objects bud... Not people. I can't believe the comparison... wow.

Communism is not a viable system of government for human beings because it does not take into account a very basic human trait: greed.

Communism failed in the Soviet Union because there was no positive incentive for people to be more productive. "Each gives according to their ability, and each receives according to their need" is just going to make people do only what is necessary, and try to get as much as they can. Why be a top notch doctor if the government is only going to dole out to you the same as it gives a second or third-rate physician? Why be exceptional at anything if the rewards would be the same if you are mediocre?

Greed will be the downfall of capitalism as well, it will just take longer.

Frederich Hayek said all that needs to be said on this topic. Communism (socialism in general) destroys personal freedoms. As Alexis De Toqueville sagely observed, people cannot have full equality and liberty. It's either inequality and liberty, or equality and forced indoctrination into the prevailing doctrine.

It doesn't take a brain scientist to figure this out. Private ownership cultivates private enterprise. And private enterprise fosters individual freedoms; it grants one the latitude to pursue whatever career path one desires, and so, the power to shape ones earthly existence.

Conversely, a socialist system usurps all private prerogatives. Transferring ownership from the individual to the community requires a central planner: the central planner then becomes the chief arbiter of how others should live. In effect, it means giving up your individual freedom to choose what you think would be best for yourself. Additionally, the central planner is also a mere human with his or her own philosophical prejudices. As Hayek explained in "the road to serfdom", socialisms largesse immediately pits the prejudices of the central planner against ideological dissidents of the regime, which requires the use of powers which today we would term "crimes against humanity". In order to stifle dissent, socialist leaders have to act immorally. Hence, the prevalence of violence in socialist societies.

Still, despite all this, despite the sheer impracticality of communist ethos, the inveterate failures of historical communist regimes, you maintain the utopian daydream of a "perfect world". Communism doesn't work because it seeks powers which human beings can't possibly make good use of.

reply to post by NysgjerrigDame


Because of the simple fact that communism ran by humans only empowers the people running the government and impales the capability of the common man to do anything otherwise.

Historical Fact: Humans exploit others.I don't consider it good or bad but I take it as a fact of life. However, whatever is 'bad' about capitalism right now, is magnified in communistic regimes. I laugh when the people in my country complain about capitalism, because those same people who are exploiting us now would of had more power had we been a communist society.

reply to post by VictorVonDoom


Very good points. Besides the infringements on personal freedom, communism also squelches economic growth and human progress, and this because communism attempts to "shape" society in too rigorous a way.

All invention is the product of experimentation, trial and error. A society which is free optimizes the amount of individuals who can participate in societies growth and progress. A communist society, by trying to consciously "control" progress, is akin to the artist who tries to consciously control his art: such attempts always have the effect of arresting artistic inspiration. You cannot impose bounds; inspiration occurs spontaneously. Free Market dynamics foster economic and technological growth because it works independently of human artifice. It was something discovered. It has worked wonders for the world. Conversely, socialism has had the opposite effect wherever it has arisen.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly

I am however interested to hear your "source" for this statement:

"Peoples idea of "thriving" varies greatly. Tito was a psychopathic murderer that lived in paranoia and fear of his own people he brutalized. "

Just to name one. You can not cover up a mass murderer just because your family was not on the opposing side. If it was you would not be here. Of coarse people love him in your country. They killed ALL opposition. The "you better love me or else" mentality is built in...but it is not exactly natural.....

It is common knowledge to the rest of the world that Tito killed many. The UN could be my source as well since he was always a questionable person to the rest of the world. He commanded more than respect. He commanded a large army that policed the average people and carried out his orders like the wrath of God.

Communism seems to produce many people like this......

Rummel: Tito’s Regime Took Million Lives
AUGUST 17 2007 09:07h

The American historian claims that partisans killed half a million people during WWII and even more after the war.

Spurred by a statement by Krk Bishop Valter Zupan who equalised Tito and his crimes with those of Adolf Hitler and the recent probing of a fox hole in Tezno near Maribor in which there are allegedly at least 15,000 victims of post-war mass executions, we dealt with the subject of the deadliest regimes of the 20th century, which includes Josip Broz Tito, according to the greatest American expert on issues of genocide.
Rudolph Joseph Rummel

Rudolph Joseph Rummel (born on October 21, 1932) is a political science professor at the University of Hawaii. He dedicated his career to gathering data on collective violence and war to help their resolution and elimination. His research shows that six times more people died in the past century due to democide than any of the wars in the 20th century. The author wrote 24 books on the subject of collective vipolence and war and the notion of democide.

GENOCIDE: the killing of people by the authorities because of their affiliation to certain groups (race, religion, language, ethniticity).

POLITICALLY MOTIVATED KILLINGS: the killing of people by the authorities for their political affiliation and actions.

MASS KILLINGS: the unjustified killing of people by the authorities.
DEMOCIDE: the killing of people by the authorities that includes genocide, politically motivated and mass killings.

Yugoslavia placed among mega killers
Rudolph Joseph Rummel, an American professor of political science, conducted research relating to the deadliest regimes of the 20th century. According to Rummel there are several categories of infamous regimes, depending on the number of lives a certain regime took.

Professor Rummel stresses that during World War Two, democide had been committed in Yugoslavia by the Nazis, Chetniks, Ustashi and Tito’s partisans. The author says that during the war the Ustashi killed more than 650,000 people, mostly Serbs, and Tito’s regime took half a million lives, mostly anti-communists, Ustashi and the regime’s critics. After the war the number rose, Rummel said.

The biggest obstacle to his research was that one could not draw a clear line between Yugoslav soldiers who died fighting against each other (Chetniks, partisans, Ustashi), Rummel stressed.
According to his data, the partisans killed some 100,000 people by July 1944, after which they became a legal army and killed another half a million people by the end of the war. The Chetniks killed some 100,000 people during the entire war, the author says.

Forced labour and the imprisonment of all enemies of the regime were typical for Tito’s reign, as well as the entire eastern Europe of that time. Live in camps for enemies of the regime was hell. Famine, overcrowdedness, brutality and exceptionally poor living conditions took some 200,000 lives, according to Rummel. The most infamous camp of that sort was Goli Otok.
The number of victims reaches two million?

After the war Tito’s rule persecuted and killed Germans, Italians, Muslims and Albanians, says the

dalje.com...

There are MANY more. If you really want I will search for you and post them all if for some reason your computer is not working properly or your Google is not as effective or your libraries are all closed or too far away.

I saw it on TV, it is bad. That's what I was told. Oh wait that was a communist talking.