Is This Better?

LOL! I guess you didn't know the guys running this site are Jewish. Eh?

Dear Twitchy and Axeman,

(I feel a bit dopey addressing a thread that started the best part of a decade ago, but darn, I just have to)

You are/were arguing past one another and getting lost in the details. I agree with much of what both of you say but I believe that due to the intensity of the debate you both couldn't see that there is a quite obvious and satisfying middle ground.

Here:

Twitchy, your making a simple mistake that has Axeman all flustered. The billions of dollars are not from the certification process. Sure some rabbi's are making money out of it but the biggest beneficiaries of the kosher market are the business' selling the products.

Yes the kosher levee is a scam. Axeman, this is an obvious fact. It's a marketing scam. 28% of the population buying products based on the esoteric beliefs of a 3% minority which generates extra income for big business. Where I come from that's a big fat scam.

Twitchy, if you just back down just a little, admit that in the heat of debate you've made an error, one we all make from time to time, then you can regroup and tackle this subject for what it is. It is just big business doing what it does best...making money out of bull#. Sure there are some rabbi's getting rich. From the figures bandied about in this thread, and I'm sure Axeman would have to agree, they might make millions but obviously the bulk of the earnings are going to corporations. There are probably more Irish Americans involved in this scam then Jews..(joke...kind of)

And Axeman, I understand you're disagreement with the idea that jewish organisations are making many billions out of this, they're probably not, but with the growth rates and overall size of the kosher market that have been cited here you have to admit that someone is (making billions). I may be wrong but it would be interesting to see the figures.

Anyhow, I enjoyed the thread.

Originally posted by mrwiffler
the biggest beneficiaries of the kosher market are the business' selling the products.

That's where we will have to disagree, kosher certification according to the very source of this chicannery, can add as much as 30% to production costs, and I've read more than a few accounts of Rabbi's literally chasing business owners down in the street to 'bust' them using non-certified ingredients. There's a local food packing plant here that has a rabbi visiting once a week to certify the non-kosher food they are re-packaging, the employees are told they literally cannot talk while he's in the building. Sounds like a real boon to business...
Despite what Snopes and Kosher thugs would have you believe, it has absolutely nothing to do with marketing, as I pointed out earlier, there was a New York Time article that said Kosher Labeling is 'printed unobtrusively on products so as to go un-noticed by Christian Consumers.' and more often than not, the Kosher Label is taken out of mainstream advertisements.
The 300-400 billion dollars a year isn't something I pulled out of thin air either, that figure came directly from the Kosher folks themselves, of course no one really knows how much they are really raking in as they don't have to pay taxes on any of it and business owners are told they are not allowed to discuss the amount they have to pay, but you can expect to pay a full time Kashrut man about 30-60 grand a year. Doesn't sound like a big deal until you realize that things like the insulation around powerlines and the steel industry for example are being fleeced in the name of some obscure meat laws from Deuteronomy.

Ok, I agree with you totally that this is a big money making scam but we seem to disagree as to where the money is going. There are a few points you have raised that I would like to discuss with you but firstly I must address this figure of hundreds of billions of dollars. That figure is referring to the value of the entire kosher market per year. Not the certification fee.I think this is an important aspect of this subject that needs addressing if we are to go any further in our understanding. Could you maybe rethink your stance on this point.

no it does not sound fishy; it did not read your prior thread but i guess it has to do with muslim edicts? i think it is a right thing for them to do in the face of improper action and hindsight vision regarding christian actions that are not dissimilar pertaining the eating cultivation and lack of respect for certain products. in honesty if america is a christian nation the gulf oil spill is good because you should not be prospering as a 10 year old high school drop out who has a fishing boat that sells products that are unclean and unlawfull to eat. in like mind if america is a christian nation the very thought of using judgements as a government to control to use of an herb or fruit by means of damning someone in light of their own religion within christian america is equally as evil.further if america is a christian nation it should be impossible for itself(its organ that allows itself to exist; with members that are this party or that) to accept any law or vice that is against gods will; and this is not so, for my prior examples are not imaginary but truths.

since america is not a christian nation and has promoted malfeasance for christian ideals but separation from its governing bodies with an aspect of thought that is religion; it is very acceptable for a muslim committee to exist within america that boycotts products if they do not contain their approval.

a reply to: Ausar

No it has nothing to do with muslims, they keep similar dietary restrictions in their orthodoxy, but they don't rake 300-400 billion dollars a year off the US consumer markets to do it.

a reply to: twitchy

I know what you are talking about
After a few lines I knew
Sad that your post was pulled
You can't say it so I will do it for you

I believe he is referring to Muslim food halal
Yes what a scam
The Catholics call it simony
To use God for personal gain

a reply to: twitchy

I know what you are talking about
After a few lines I knew
Sad that your post was pulled
You can't say it so I will do it for you

I believe he is referring to Muslim food halal
Yes what a scam
The Catholics call it simony
To use God for personal gain