Is This Better?

reply to post by twitchy


My claim is the opposite of yours. You say it can't be done and I say it can. You have offered no evidence that it cannot be done other than you say that. I did the same.


Cheers

If you got a whole cart full of Non Kosher goods though, I'd be really interested in knowing what products and what store...

I'm not trying to imply anything by that, I really would be interested in knowing what you bought that wasn't Kosher Certified. It's a legitimate interest of mine, I know for instance that Gelatin containing products typically aren't certified and things like Pickled Pigs Feet obviously wouldn't, but if you managed to get a whole family feeding cart load of groceries without purchasing a single Kosher product, then I sure would like to know more about it.

reply to post by twitchy


Try shopping at ALDI. That's where I go and most things aren't kosher. Some are, but most aren't. They're generic brands, imagine that. Yeah, I took your little "twitchy challenge" before I ripped your whole argument to pieces.

Of course, you can't see this and even if you did you wouldn't believe me anyway. *shrugs*

Why do I waste my time?

[edit on 1/27/08 by The Axeman]

Whoa. I have never heard of this before. How relieved I am to find that my 409 cleaning product is kosher. I find it odd that nearly every item in my pantry has this certification and yet I've never heard of it until after viewing this thread. And why would this subject be met with such opposition? It's these little things that bother the hell out of me. It's hidden but in plain sight. I must agree that it's bizarre that all of these foods undergo a test to insure they are fit to be eaten by such a small percentage of the population. Sounds like a get money scam to me. Thanks for the information!

The fact that so many products are inspected for 3% of a population is concern or conspiracy alone. What if they don't pass the inspection? What's the cost of changing it so they do? But what I'm trying to say is why is it so important for so many major companies to please such a small group of people. That any minute group has the power to do that is realy interesting.

Originally posted by Zealott
The fact that so many products are inspected for 3% of a population is concern or conspiracy alone.

If companies were compelled to certify, then I would agree with you.

As it stands though, Kosher certification is voluntary and the various companies request the certification; the Kosher certifiers do not just decide who they inspect. It is a service that companies pay someone (Star-K for example) to provide.

No conspiracy in that, unless the idea of "free market" is conspiracy.

Originally posted by twitchy
Rather than posting a direct link to any one source, which apparently was a no-no,

Since when is not posting a direct source link a "no-no".
Seems opposite from what ATS encourages which is giving source credit, and also backing up what you say.

Sounds disappointing how this is handled, I have read your threads and you are definitely middle ground, so I dont know whats up. Looks like your threads are now scoped to be in the domain of RATS (if it even gets there.)

To bad, you have interesting stuff.

peace

dAlen

p.s. ahhh, just finished your post about cheetos.
Its seems pretty obvious, at least it seems you are talking about the Kosher designation. Yeah, I suppose that can be a touchy subject for some. Hard to be objective when one is wrapped up in a certain milieu and idea though - and anything going 'against it' appears as an attack.

p.s. read another post of yours further down asking about kosher toilet paper and what that has to do with foods. The fact is that there are complicated rules that go in virtually every aspect of an orthodox Jews life...so from an outside it would seem to not make sense, unless you are viewing it through the glasses of those who have this setting as their milieu.

Now this does not discount that things couldnt be ran in a smoother fashion and one that doesnt necessarily 'appear' to aim the pocket book, per say. This is a deep subject and indeed hard to cover in a short sitting.




[edit on 18-2-2008 by dAlen]

Originally posted by MrNECROS
I must say I see Twitchy's point - Halal and Kosher endorsements do not ensure quality at all - they just specify the foodstuffs as religiously certified.
It is a backdoor way of racketeering cash for religion.

Unfortunately you can't say bad things even indirectly about Jews on the Internet or you'll be instantly branded anti-Semite and a "hate monger"
- even if the point is valid.

Hear hear...
Yes I remember such a store (not to be named) when I lived stateside.
It had kosher designation for its food and some of the food (alot) was pure crap.

Again, Im into 'whole' foods and not into most of the crap that amazingly carries a kosher designation.

So in a sense, it would seem that there is a 'money issue' going on here and maybe not as much as a concern for the 'spirituality' of the individual as one would like another to believe... or if there was (a concern for ones soul/well being) the 'crap', with artificial everything wouldnt be designated with the term kosher.

Again, nothing wrong with Kosher, but it seems that a valid question is brought up...has it (the term 'kosher') been commercialized and abused...perhaps.

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 18-2-2008 by dAlen]

Originally posted by theron dunn

You, and Twitchy don't seem to understand what Kosher is. To be certified Kosher, foods and products have to be prepared in stict accordance with Hebrew standards laid out, for instance, in Deuteronomy, and expanded upon in Jewish Law.

A rabbi is required to oversee and certify that standards have been maintained and the process adhered to strictly.

But to claim that it is a Jewish tax is simply insane...

Well, I have noticed that many people attacking Twitchy have been banned...so it looks like you had 'justice' after all - plus it looked like the mods worked with you on your quote issues.

Now as for the quote above, read my above post...the point is that the food isnt quality to begin with.
Forget Deuteronomy, there is stuff that looks like it was grown in an experimental labratory...left to rot and then marked kosher. We would all wish it was according to strict rules. (I would say Whole foods comes closer than the one store Im thinking about...with their rotting fruits, etc. And this was a mainstream grocer in the midst of a Jewish community.)

anyway...

Peace

dAlen

EDIT:
Above was originally 2 pictures that the below message is about.
(One was quite large so i understand it being moved)
They were basically Holocaust photos, which had the posters quote about what happened to their Godmother (I believe it was) Now that there is perspective, here is what I had to say:

dude, dont know if your image shows up in this quote or not (guess I will see after posting) but was that necessary?

Seems your taking things the wrong way. There are a lot of people suffering in the world LTD602, not just one group and not just one point in history...

What this has to do with poor quality kosher products, I have no idea.

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 18-2-2008 by dAlen]

I would just like to say Thank you to Twitchy for a very well sourced and researched eyeopener of a thread, seriously i don't know how you kept your cool with some of the anti-semitic accusations and obvous de-railment attempts, hat off to you man.

I would like to post a link to a well presented video that highlights some of the points you have raised in your posts, it also provides some figures with sources that show the amount of money being made.
pressthat.wordpress.com...


To Axeman
Before i read this entire thread, the Mason's were something i wanted to aspire to, i believe you have done your brothers an injustice.

Originally posted by RancidCat
To Axeman
Before i read this entire thread, the Mason's were something i wanted to aspire to, i believe you have done your brothers an injustice.

How so?

By asking that the OP clarify exactly what it is that he has a problem with? By asking him to recognize the difference between gross product sales and profit margins and the fees for kosher certification? One does not equal the other.

Yeah perhaps I was a little testy towards the end and if I could go back I would not have made one of the comments I did... however, prior to that, I was very patient, provided credible sources and reasonable logic behind my arguments, and asked that the OP do the same with regard to his position on the original topic.

He uses circular references and only a few of them at that, and most of his sources are from obviously anti-Semitic/White Nationalist websites. Am I saying OP is an anti-Semite? No. I'm simply pointing out that his sources are. The other one he likes to pull is quoting the NY Times with no links, dates, or anything of the sort. He just puts "New York Times" at the top of the quote and expects people to buy it. Incidentally, that community-web.tv site or whatever it was (linked to previously) did the same thing... coincidence?

Google searches for "NY Times" and other topic related words yields no matching results... save community-web.tv.

All the credible and objective information that I have found including state gov sites and non affiliated agencies points to the fact that the cost of the certifications (ergo the "tax" the OP believes is being levied upon him) is absorbed by the manufacturers, and more than compensated for by increased profit margins; hence the cost of certifications is not passed on to the consumer, as is the OP's claim.

I'm still witing for ANYONE to show me facts contrary to this conclusion that do not originate with a blatantly anti-Semitic source.

Anyone?

RancidCat: I'm sorry if I have offended you in some way, but I don't really pull punches. I have little time for or sympathy towards people who ignore facts for the sake of pushing an agenda (i.e. a fight with Masons).

Travel well.

Edit to add:

Originally posted by RancidCat
I would like to post a link to a well presented video that highlights some of the points you have raised in your posts, it also provides some figures with sources that show the amount of money being made.
pressthat.wordpress.com...

And I would like to quote from your source (the video link above):

The “Kosher tax” is a canard or urban
legend spread by anti-Semitic, white
supremacist and right wing extremist
organizations such as the National Alliance and Ku Klux
Klan.

...

The actual cost to the consumer is generally minuscule... This is more than offset by the advantages of being certified... Certification leads to increased revenues of sales by opening up the additional markets such as Jews who keep kosher; Muslims who keep halal; and vegans,
Seventh-day Adventists, and the lactose intolerant who wish to avoid dairy products (products that are certified as pareve
may meet this criterion)...

...Dispellers of the “kosher tax” legend argue that if it were not profitable to obtain such certification, then food producers would not engage in the certification process, and that the increased sales resulting from
kosher certification actually lower the overall cost per item.[10][11]

Obtaining certification that an item is kosher is a voluntary business decision made by companies desiring additional sales
from consumers... The fees charged for kosher
certification are used to support the operation of the certifying bodies themselves, and not Zionist causes or Israel.[2]

Exactly what I have been saying all along. Can you provide evidence to the contrary?

Also, that video has already been posted in this thread. Seen it. More propaganda.

[edit on 2/18/08 by The Axeman]

I'm so used to defending this thread against a full scale masonic assault, when I saw it at the top my subscribed threads list, I opened google in another window to be ready for another round. It was a pleasant surprise to see it being read and replied to objectively, thanks dAlen and RancidCat!
I had seen the video you posted before, RancidCat. I think some of his figures are outdated now as the US Kosher Market is now estimated, by the Kosher people, at more than $200 billion a year. Thanks for posting it though, it is a well researched piece. There are others cropping up as well...
video.google.com...

What a cooincidence that Kosher Food Sales are growing at 15% a year,

Source
Kosher foods are carefully selected and processed according to Jewish tradition. Sales of kosher foods are now growing 15 percent a year. That's even faster than organic food sales.

And food prices have Risen 5.6% in a years time...

Source
Grocery store food prices increased 5.6 percent in 2007

Note in that first article they are still trying to claim that Kosher represents a difference in the quality of the product when I've already demonstrated that even the Kosher folks don't make that claim, at least not in what they call mainstream kosher anyway.

Kosher Electricity?

Source
Electricity gets kosher certificate
V In an age where you can buy just about everything with rabbinic supervision, from fast food to household cleaners, a new kosher-certified commodity is about to enter the market — electricity.
The world’s first plant producing “kosher” power has just been approved in Modi’in Illit, a settlement which is Israel’s fastest-growing Charedi centre.
The problem that electricity poses for the Orthodox is that it can be produced on Shabbat. Though this raises no difficulty in the diaspora, where most power-station employees are non-Jewish, some rabbis say it prohibits use of Israel’s national grid over Shabbat, as the power may have been produced by a Jew violating religious law.
Many Orthodox Israelis rely on lenient rulings, but more are choosing to run their own generators over Shabbat.

Yes I know that's all the way in Israel, but with New York City having their water system being attacked for not being Kosher, I think it's just a matter of time before we are paying a little extra for electricity so we can all obey God's law here in the US.

The kosher market in China was struggling to take hold in a country that has a very small Jewish Population. Of course with all the recent scandals involving Chinese food products, there is a solution...

Source
Chinese exporters, facing a recent U.S. backlash over tainted food products, are turning to an unlikely group of inspectors to clean up their act: rabbis. It seems that the Chinese believe that a kosher seal might inspire confidence in American consumers, even those who don't hesitate to mix meat and milk shakes.

Sounds familiar in an 'order from chaos' context.

Source
Although many here have never heard the word "kosher," China is now the world's fastest-growing producer of kosher-certified food, with more than 500 Chinese factories producing the approved products. That number is expected to soar, not because this country that is still officially atheist has embraced Judaism, but because it's good for business....
That's important in China, which is trying to recover from the recent spate of tainted-food scandals. Eager to regain consumer trust, the "Made in China" label has found an unexpected ally in the once-obscure kosher symbol....
"They used to call me Santa Claus," said Freundlich, who moved to Beijing with his family in 2001 to start a Jewish community center. Then came the Sept. 11 attacks. "They started calling me Bin Laden, which is unfortunate."

Good for business? I guess not being Kosher was apparently bad for Chinese Food Exporters. Sounds alot like one of Al Capone's famous quotes. Just in time for the Kosher Olympics...

Source
Beijing Olympics going Kosher with food safety issues driving a mini-boom
BEIJING — Beijing and the Olympics are going Kosher.
The capital's only Kosher restaurant opened 10 months ago, drawing the small Jewish expatriate community, tourists, curious Chinese and even a few Muslims. Business has been so good at Dini's Kosher Restaurant, that part-owner Lewis Sperber is talking about setting up a second branch closer to the Olympic venues in northern Beijing.
Eating Kosher - food that meets Jewish dietary laws - is hardly a raging fad. However, there is a real boom is the number of Chinese factories being certified to export Kosher products. This is driven partially by recent food safety scares in China involving contaminated seafood, pet food and toothpaste.

Source
"From the hygiene side, whether someone is Kosher or not, Jewish or not, people will want food from here because it is considered cleaner and more hygienic being that we're in China," Ramia said. "A Muslim woman came in recently because she can't eat meat anywhere else."

The staff and cooks at Dini's are nearly all Chinese. Waiters bring new Chinese customers a handout to explain Kosher, which is called "Jie Shi" in Chinese -- "clean food."

"When Chinese come, I don't think they know what to order," said Zhao Haixia, the assistant manager. "Normally they just rely on us to tell them what's good."

...Grunberg is optimistic a domestic Kosher market will develop in China, fueled partly by hygiene issues.
"I think there will be a big market here, and a big market could mean just a fraction of a percent of 1.3 billion. With only that you'll have a bigger market than we have for Kosher in the United States."

"They just rely on us to tell them what's good."... "bigger market than we have for Kosher in the United States" Somebody should tell the Chinese Government that mainstream Kosher represents no difference in quality at all, I'm sure the Rabbi's made that clear, didn't they? No.

PETA and Kosher?

Source
Norfolk, Va. - Following a recent undercover investigation of a slaughterhouse in Uruguay, which is a leading exporter of kosher beef to the U.S., PETA and the Rabbinical Assembly (RA) are calling on kosher meat companies and the Orthodox Union (OU) to end a cruel slaughter method known as shackling and hoisting.

Some of these are in Israel, some of these are here in the US, and some of them are on teh way here... but none of them are mentioned in the Torah, but somebody is still paying the fees.

Kosher Phone Service
Kosher Karate
Kosher Bus Service
Kosher Phone Lines
Kosher Subways and Car Insurance for Dogs
Kosher Mortgages
And yes, even...

Kosher Organ Donations
A bill that would classify 'time of death' as being the time at which a person becomes brain-dead passed the first hearing of the Knesset. The bill is expected to greatly expand the ability to donate organs in Israel as brain death often occurs before the body's other organs die. Organs for transplant are useless if not immediately removed from the host body.

Originally posted by RancidCat
i don't know how you kept your cool with some of the anti-semitic accusations and obvous de-railment attempts

I don't keep my cool, that's why I get in so much trouble here sometimes. I fight back, fortunately plain old truth is a weapon of considerable effect. In the words of Meogi, "If use right, no can defend." Truth is a handy tool, it doesn't have to be weilded from any perspective, and it doesn't have to be forced into a contrived reality, it is universial and thanks to the modern miracle of the internet, it is now available.

reply to post by The Axeman

How so?

For reason's such as the blatant posting of the wikipedia definition of "Kosher tax" that was on the same page as the video clip, trying as it were to make me look like an idiot, i know that was on there, the site is an anti violence site totaly unbiased and providing both sides, Wiki articles cannot be used as a trusted source of information and already that article has been used to try and shoot down twitchy.
Its that kind of tactic and the fact that you jumped into this thread with both feet admitting that you had'nt even read the opening posts, and then spent the next 8+ pages shouting out prove it, prove it, like a broken record, when twitchy had already laid out the facts.

Plus the hideous self gloating when twichy failed to provide the world jewish bank statements showing there annual income, from what can only be described as a racket, as if that fact alone debunked the entire purpose of his thread, which incidently was to make people aware of this "tax" that they are unwittingly paying for.

Once again Twitchy, Thanks.

Maybe some of you are not on the lower end of the pay scale, have 2 hungry kids and struggle to pay the bills, but to those, such as myself that are, every penny does really count. Its the hidden little charges like this that make the rich richer and keep my kids wanting, i don't like that, it makes me sad.

Originally posted by RancidCat
For reason's such as the blatant posting of the wikipedia definition of "Kosher tax" that was on the same page as the video clip, trying as it were to make me look like an idiot, i know that was on there, the site is an anti violence site totaly unbiased and providing both sides, Wiki articles cannot be used as a trusted source of information and already that article has been used to try and shoot down twitchy.

Yes, we all know that wiki is not a great source, but the thing with wiki is -- it gives sources outside of itself. If you had read my posts you would have seen that I provided a plethora of links besides wiki that demonstrate my argument.

Its that kind of tactic and the fact that you jumped into this thread with both feet admitting that you had'nt even read the opening posts...

I "jumped into this thread with both feet" by asking Twitchy a QUESTION -- in response to which he immediately insulted me and attacked my character, thus dismissing my points from the get-go.

...and then spent the next 8+ pages shouting out prove it, prove it, like a broken record, when twitchy had already laid out the facts.

Of course I'm going to ask him to prove it! LMAO @ "facts." Sure there were facts, but not many relevant ones. The problem is this: the premise of the thread is: "we are paying a 'tax' to the Jews when we buy products and that is not fair to 'the other 97%'." OK great. Can you demonstrate that the cost of the products to the consumer increases because of kosher certification? The business journals and papers I have read on the subject (many of which are posted on this thread) almost unanimously conclude that the cost of certification is offset by the profits derived from the extra sales. If anything the widened market lowers the price.

Plus the hideous self gloating when twichy failed to provide the world jewish bank statements showing there annual income, from what can only be described as a racket, as if that fact alone debunked the entire purpose of his thread, which incidently was to make people aware of this "tax" that they are unwittingly paying for.

BUT THEY (WE) DON'T PAY FOR IT, that's my point. So the whole premise is bunk!

The gross sales of kosher products ($200 billion or whatever) is NOT the same as the COST of the kosher certification. The term "billions" keeps getting thrown around like that's what the certifiers are making from the certifications; that is not the case.

The manufacturers (or whoever) pays the certifiers a certain fee. Then the manufacturer (or whoever) sets their price, and the product sells at a profit to the manufacturer. This does not equal profits to the certifiers.

How is this not obvious at this point?

If someone could provide some viable information showing that the certification companies are cashing in, then I would be arguing the other side, believe me.

Maybe some of you are not on the lower end of the pay scale, have 2 hungry kids and struggle to pay the bills, but to those, such as myself that are, every penny does really count.

Tell me about it. I have a family of 5 trying to make it on my pay alone. That's why I shop at ALDI's. My family and I struggle every single day. It is very presumptuous of you to assume that I am somehow well off simply because I disagree with the OP on this issue and I am vocal about it. Why wouldn't I be?

As I said before I am sorry I insulted him like I did, and I would offer that apology to him were I not on his ignore list (though I wouldn't expect to get one in return).

Its the hidden little charges like this that make the rich richer and keep my kids wanting, i don't like that, it makes me sad.

See, we do agree, sort of, and I do sort of agree with Twitchy in a certain respect. There IS a problem when "milk is $4 a gallon," as he says. I just don't think it's due to any imaginary "kosher tax."

It's due to inflation, and fractional reserve banking, and the warfare/welfare state, and the fact that our government is out of control with spending and our dollar is being devalued. If anything I see this kosher business as part of the same red herring that has people up in arms about Masonry.

If the powers that be keep us (read: normal everyday people) squabbling amongst each other about kosher scams and evil freemasons and [insert ridiculous conspiracy theory here], then we MISS what is really happening, which is that we are being robbed. Slowly and methodically.

If you want to know why prices are rising, look to the central banking scheme, inflation, and the graduated income tax, war spending and general irresponsibility in government and manipulation of the markets.

Picking on people who are just trying to follow their faith, and then attacking people who try to make it easier for them to do so, then attacking people who see the business benefit of certifications, is falling into exactly the trap they want us to fall into. Hatred for one another, and a blind-eye to the hands that really ARE in our pockets.

I admire your and twitchy's passion for the topic, but I'd ask you to forgive me for saying I think it is misdirected.

Twitchy thinks I hate him, and he probably hates me. He thinks we are enemies. But we are not enemies so much as we are two people that are pissed off about the same thing, but who look to different people as being responsible. We're both just as sure as the other that we're right, so obviously there will be conflict.

I do regret that I was so cross before; confrontation like that is not the best way to get people to see your point... but at times you have to do with what you've got. That's what I had that day/week whatever it was. I tried the patient route and got irritated with what I percived to be intentional hardheadedness. I'm just a dude at the end of the day.

I do wish he would answer some of the questions I posed to him though.

Thank you, Twitchy, for the dozens of links to information about kosher --- about how it's levied on consumables such as cling-wrap, bleach, plastic and china soap-dishes and upon virtually every item within large and small supermarkets, regardless of whether or not those items are for consumption.

Like many in this thread, I am outraged to learn that 3% or less of the world's population is charging the other 97% a tax on virtually everything, based on the claimed religion of that mere 3%.

I'm further outraged that the kosher tax is levied multiple times per item. As you've explained, within simple bread for example, a kosher tax is levied separately on all the ingredients which go to make up that bread --- and then levied again on the finished item: a loaf of bread.

Further, as has been explained here in the thread and via the links, the unimaginably massive monies taken from the public via kosher tax are not even taxed ! It must amount to billions annually !

Apparently, any manufacturer or producer who tries to evade paying kosher tax, is branded an 'anti-semite'. What a racket !

I agree with several other posters in this thread who've praised your patience and intelligence. It very much seems to me too that you have been mercilessly provoked, bullied and otherswise been subjected to 'silencing and derailing' tactics throughout the several years this thread has been active. The bullies and provocateurs are here to be seen and most of us have taken note.

Twitchy, you've provided a service by perservering with this thread .. a service to the 97% of the world's population which -- and let us not bother to mince words here --- have been and ARE being robbed blind via this ruthless and largely HIDDEN 'kosher tax'.

And what a joke. I work alongside several jews daily in the city. Each day .. after the lunch-rush is over ... they dash down to the numerous fast-food outlets in the plaza at street-level of our building. There they buy up all the left-over food --- all kinds of foods and many of the dishes contain pork, bacon, etc. They cart the food back to the office and literally pig-out. A lot of the food is asian.

When they've had their fill, they put the rest of the containers in the office refrigerator, then phone their wives to say they have the night's meal under control. They buy these plastic containers of left-overs for two dollars a time. Some stagger back with half a dozen or more. It's not kosher food by any stretch of imagination. But it's cheap. The jews who practice this form of economy day after day, week in, week out, boast to the rest of us that they're not only saving on groceries, but also on time and fuel that would otherwise be spent cooking their family's meals.

They go to the gym (after logging on each morning and pretending to be working) to try to control their bulging waists. They bring back containers of food. It's as if they're addicted to cheap food. Frankly, I'm suspicious that the food they're gorging has been scraped from the plates of other customers. I've suggested as much. They just dismiss that idea. I don't think they'd care even if they knew it was true.

What I want to know now is, why is are my family and friends etc. being forced to pay this insupportable 'kosher tax' (even on cling wrap and porn videos apparently) when actual jews don't give a damn about kosher ?

Originally posted by Dock6
Twitchy, you've provided a service by perservering with this thread .. a service to the 97% of the world's population which -- and let us not bother to mince words here --- have been and ARE being robbed blind via this ruthless and largely HIDDEN 'kosher tax'.

Hey, I've got a bridge for sale... cheap.

Makes me sad to see that so many people fail to see the utter absence of reason behind this ridiculous "kosher tax" idea. Woof. Double woof.

The entire premise of the thread is based on circular reasoning and hyperbole.

How about looking to who is really robbing you (read: us)? A lot of them might be Jewish (and a lot of them aren't), but it has NOTHING to do with Kosher foods.

Axeman this article snippet is posted with you in mind...

Source
New Jersey Jewish News
Kashrut specialist warns of effects of high prices
March 18, 2008
Price hikes in many basic products may encourage manufacturers to cut corners on kashrut, said a field supervisor for the Orthodox Union.
Rabbi Avrohom Stone warned an Edison audience that prices for basics —
particularly flour — have “skyrocketed” in recent months because so much
agriculture is being diverted into making ethanol as an alternative fuel.
“Companies are looking to cut back,” said Stone, adding that he feared they may try to circumvent expensive kashering procedures....

Expensive Kashering Procedures...

(continued)
Luban recalled an incident from about 23 years ago, when he used his detective skills to outsmart a former local pizzeria owner. Some unlabeled cans raised his suspicions and led him on a search for other infractions. He was about to open a bag of garbage left outside the shop when the alarmed owner snatched it from Luban’s hand and ran down the street.
“I began running after him, my tzitzit flying behind me,” recalled Luban. “I was a lot younger then.”
He saw the owner stuff the bag under a truck. When Luban retrieved it, he found empty boxes of nonkosher cheese. The owner tried to pass them off as old containers, but the truth came out — he had been filling the grated cheese containers at night with the treif cheese.
“This could have gone on for 25 years,” said Luban. “It was really just mazel that I saw those cans. I always felt God was protecting the community.”

Now bear in mind this 'Kosher Cop' is being paid as much as 50 grand a year by the Pizza Place owner to chase the owner himself down in the street. Does that sound consensual-ish to you? God PROTECTING the community really sounds alot like PROTECTION racket to me.

(continued)
Stone, a field supervisor who oversees more than 100 companies, said the number of products earning the respected “OU” certification has mushroomed in recent years thanks to market forces...

100 companies, each paying fifty or so grand yearly, to a single inspector. That's alot of divine protection money, and that's one guy and a handful of companies that pay up.
Stone goes on to tell us...

(continued)
“Kashrus is all about money,” said Stone, founder and director of the community kollel in his hometown of West Orange. “Nobody is out there manufacturing and producing any type of food that is kosher with a hechsher unless they can make money.”

All about money... I couldn't agree more. axeman, you said earlier in the thread that you hadn't read all of it, perhaps its time you did as I have addressed all of your previous questions, ad nauseum. You also said that if I could show that it's a money racket, you would support me in opposing it, while I doubt your masonic loyalties will allow you to cross the lines here, I can hardly see that you can come to any other conclusion.
If you have some evidence to the contrary, please post it, otherwise, I'm saying conclusively, that the Kosher Food Scam has gone far beyond any obscure Meat Laws in Deuteronomy and mushroomed into a multi-billion dollar federally regulated religous taxation of our consumer markets. Maybe I just missed something during all my years of religous studies, but as far as I know, there is nothing in the Old Testament which requires Electrical Lines (for example) be wrapped in Kosher Insulation, perhaps loosely interpreted, the Talmud commands this sort of thing.
Kosher Ethics
There is a growing trend in Kosher Certification towards enforcing what is being called Kosher Ethics as well, they are creating a whole new division of certification that requires adherence to rabbinical ethics as well.

Originally posted by Dock6
I am outraged to learn that 3% or less of the world's population is charging the other 97% a tax on virtually everything

What's really twisted is that of that 3% of the population, only something like 15% of that 3% even keeps observes Kosher Law. I'm no mathemetician, but that sure seems lopsided. I forgot the actual word for it, but it's my understanding that at least in Israel, ultraorthodox jews, as a religous rule, don't work, they live completely off of the 'generosity' of the world. Crazy stuff man.

[edit on 2-1-2009 by twitchy]

reply to post by twitchy


In a way it doesn't make sense...

Why bother making potato chips kosher when in most places it's impossible to find kosher meat?

Why not... like... just make super small batches of the mass produced kosher food and just sell it in places where you can get ALL the kosher food?