Jesus spent 40 days in the Desert. I only spent 21, but here's what began to happen;

Very interesting. If you don't already know you may find the idea of the Holographic universe very compelling.

Originally posted by olaru12

So a man tells of his experience alone in the woods and many ATS members feel the need to denigrate, marginalize and basically insult him for even trying to seek a broader understanding of the world.

ATS use to be a place of discussion; now the trolls have taken over and no one cares!

edit on 27-12-2012 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

My thoughts exactly.

Originally posted by FreedomCommander

We, on the other end, are trapped. With the fear and such we are trapped.

The fear that traps you, is the fear of separation, isolation and solitude. Most people would literally lose their minds if they were away from it ALL for days, some it would take even less.

Your connections to the human world are your prison. Most of you are far too connected to ever escape.

reply to post by dominicus


Maybe you missed my question earlier on page 2, maybe you just didnt want to answer , Thats ok .
just wondering what date you went on your camping trip and what power supply you used for your computer out in the desert?
thanks

reply to post by dominicus


Interesting thread however I must point out Jesus never existed based on facts. I can understand your experience with nature because truth be told tptb put so many distractions in society so we may never be one with ourselves reaching god consciousness. Also by being distracted we may never know our true purpose in life and continue being slaves to a hidden agenda.

reply to post by dominicus


1 John 4:18 New International Version (NIV)

18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

I just thought of this verse when I read your post. You have found that fear and what we have created have drowned out the love of God and the beauty of his creation. We live in a world motivated by money and desire, Christ was asking us to create a world of giving and sacrifice so that we might overcome our greed and selfishness. So many Christians so few followers.

Originally posted by 12voltz
reply to post by dominicus

 

Maybe you missed my question earlier on page 2, maybe you just didnt want to answer , Thats ok .
just wondering what date you went on your camping trip and what power supply you used for your computer out in the desert?
thanks

It was actually spring/summer 2011. This past summer I did smaller 3-7 day retreats.

I had no comp on the 21 day one.


reply to post by thomas_

Nice experience but keep in mind that Jesus allegedly went to the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil and not to contact his father

I was super tempted in all sorts of ways. Sexual release, for more food, to leave there and give up trying for the 21 days, and many many more..... I let go to many of them, failed to a few of them.

reply to post by dominicus

You have described life through my eyes completely and I am happy for you that you can see it now. It will be easy to fall straight back in and not recall your new awakening, I hope you can find a way not to do that.

reply to post by dominicus

A friend picks me up and we go to a pizza joint to eat. Everything seems artificial, commercialized, and corporate/government ran. Still I see the Flow/Being within society, but it's covered up, manipulated by ego/mind to fit it's own molds and concepts of how things should be. In retrospect, everything now looks slow, lacking, dirty, superficial. The truth is there, but most don't see the sublime. Rushing and wrapped in roles, the present moment is entirely missed, instead people have replaced this with; "what might one day be if only I can ____(fill in the blank)!"

Its easier to see it in others than in yourself.

You have had a wonderful experience being out there on your own. However, its clear from your statement quoted above that you didn't take what you learned from your experience and applied it to the real world. It is still just a nice memory you once had, with no real application. You are still living at the mind level, just like those people you desctribe.

You're still trapped in the ego. Judging the environment around you is an example of how the ego always comes back through the back door. This is the big "problem" with awakening. This is what impedes most people who have awakened, from maintaining that awakened, selfless, state. Your ego comes back without you realizing it.

Your experience is nothing rare, many people, such as those who have had life changing experiences for example, or people who have gone on spiritual retreats, people who lost it all, etc, they also often go through that period of "realizing" their true nature, however it often quickly fades away once society starts impressing on them again.

The real evolution happens when you discover the way to maintain yourself in this state. No matter what goes on around you. No matter how "commercialized" or unconscious your environment or those around you. Can you look at your "enemies" without judging them? Can you peacefully contemplate the people as they rush through the streets without judging their motivations, or what they might be thinking, or what will become of our society?
Can you be unaffected by the content, whether good or bad?

Can you look at the world without the need to interpret everything you see?

When you can say yes to these questions then you have discovered the true lesson of your 21 days of solitude.

To whom it may concern. Here is the relevant chapter from one of the best books on mysticism ever written.

III. The Purification of the Self

Originally posted by Egyptia
reply to post by dominicus

 

Reading your experience made my soul cry out. I clearly 'see' what you are referring to and know that all those things that we occupy our lives with moment by moment are the very snares that trap our souls inside the lies that cover up the truth. These snares comprise the sickness we have become and accept as normal.

Your reference to releasing the things of the ego in temptation with the truth once every diversion is removed is a stark realization. I have often yearned to live a life outside of all this crap because I know and see the lies all about me and what is worse, I see how I myself have been trapped inside this delusion which feeds everything that is the lie inside me.

Your account truly makes me want to walk away from it all, but then I ask myself what use would I be to the world if I lived only for me? Or maybe then I would actually be of more use?

Thank you so much for the gift you just gave me.

Christ said that we could find joy in choosing to love. Many Christians miss the point, turn the other cheek, forgive, they have no idea what these things really mean. They are the recipe for love.

When your brother strikes you love him enough to turn the other cheek so that he can know you do not resist him. If you show him that you do not resist him but instead forgive him, this is not weakness. The week man strikes back at his brother but the strong man listens to Love, God, Christ, The Holy Spirit.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

Mathew 22:34-40 34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

I don't understand why the bible is so confusing. Is there 40,000 different ways to tell someone that they should love others and put others needs before their own?

I just wanted to encourage you to continue down the path you are on. I know there is a lot of darkness in this world. All we can do is pray for those who continue to stay in the darkness, hopefully they will see us few who choose to love others and they will be encouraged by us.

Originally posted by ausername

Originally posted by FreedomCommander

We, on the other end, are trapped. With the fear and such we are trapped.

The fear that traps you, is the fear of separation, isolation and solitude. Most people would literally lose their minds if they were away from it ALL for days, some it would take even less.

Your connections to the human world are your prison. Most of you are far too connected to ever escape.

No, that's not the way to view it. Once you have a connection, it stays a connection, no matter how far away you are. Similar to Voodoo, only on a much friendlier level.

reply to post by dominicus


I HATE the F@%$!&# DESERT! Unfortunately I have spent a lot of time in one or another here and there. Scorpions are a pain in the ass! You have to check your boots before putting them on...your cloths...all gear. Although I don't have much of an issue with Snakes...MANY times I have had one or more crawl up next to me in the night as Snakes are attracted to a persons body heat.

The problem with this...especially in the American Deserts...is that you may have a Big Rattler snug up next to you just trying to stay warm...the temp. drops below freezing at night in the desert even though it may be sweltering hot during the day as lack of moisture in the air and lack of cloud cover creates a bleed off of heat at night...and as you might shift your sleeping position at night...you may also Piss Off a very venomous snake as you roll on it.

Spiders are no joke either as Black Widows, Brown Recluse...etc...are a very real problem. Tarantulas are just Big, Hairy Pets! In the Middle East there is what's called a Camel Spider. Very Big with a 2 segmented body and it releases a Novacaine like substance to keep it's prey from feeling it eat it's preys flesh. People have woken up in the morning with half their face eaten away by this large spider.

Then their are flesh eating Beetles...Fly's that lay eggs in a persons wounds...Wasps that can inject huge amounts of poison...Sidewinders...the Desert SUCKS!

Then on top of all that you have some idiot trying to KILL YOU! The only good news about that is these IDIOTS have this misplaced pride that makes them feel that people such as myself are completely inept in a Desert environment. Well much to their surprise...we have Deserts in the United States and although they may not be as large...the HOTTEST PLACE ON EARTH IS DEATH VALLEY CALIFORNIA.

As much as I hate the desert...I would much rather be looking across a barren wide open plain of sand and rock then have to be playing hide and seek in a dense Jungle where it is almost impossible to see more than 6 feet in front of you.

So it is all about training. If Jesus had adequate water, a knowledge of Desert Animal and Plant Life, knew how to travel at night and rest during the day and above all...be able to keep himself from traveling in circles as understanding how to get your bearings and continue to travel in a direction that will bring you to a population...such as using the night sky's Stars as a guide and have discipline to make sure that every action...every step you take is by design conserving energy, your bodies water and specific to getting you out of the desert for the purpose of survival.

This is why it is important to travel at night and rest in shade during the day. Even a person who has ample water can easily get Heat Stroke exerting themselves in the Desert Sun. The Head must be covered at all times as well as all skin to prevent burns and water loss. Travel at night will keep you warm in the desert night time cold as well as allow you to navigate using the stars. Finding a rocky shelter of any kind during the day or if there is no shelter then you can build one using your clothing, the sand or any thing you can find.

Stay away from high dunes as the wind creates covered voids on sides of dunes that can suck a person in to the deaths. If you have to...NEVER WALK ACROSS DUNES THAT ARE HORIZONTAL TO YOU! If you have to...walk along the tops of the dunes edge and travel with the edges. Be careful as one dune edge ends and another begins. But to walk across dunes like walking into a wave at the beach is SUICIDE!

Split Infinity

When asked what was it like to have satori, Zen Master Suzuki Daisetz said 'well, it's like ordinary, everyday experience, except about two inches off the ground.' Your account kind of reminded me of that - where enlightenment isn't some kind of cosmic shockwave, but a greater appreciation and sensation of everyday living. BUT, that doesn't mean one can't/won't have a "cosmic consciousness"-type experience on such an occasion. Like that of Lindsey Vona who went on a retreat of her own, but in 14-days of absolute darkness.

Vona described the first eight days in detail, which included many other kinds of experiences. Her report of the second part of her retreat and her return to her normal life are as follows (begins about halfway down at the link):

"Around day nine, I felt like I was being teased right on the edge of ego death; it was very different than ayahuasca. The visuals in my meditations began to lessen, and my mind basically stopped for long stretches of time. I was awash with black nothing and the occasional passage of thoughts as I lay waiting for the next stages of internal changes.

Somewhere between day 9 and day 11 is when I had my most profound opening into self-realization. I don’t remember how long it lasted, but this is a fair description of what I remember. At one point in my meditation, my head opened and flooded with light. I watched and felt this quiet bliss and gladness take over and noticed that my body became pure vibration. I couldn’t feel or relate to myself as physical anymore or as Lindsey in any way, and yet I was still myself, but it felt much more real than what we call waking life.

I was absorbed into this light, and this light became the entirety of space around me until I was only this giant, radiant light-filled void. I was real and home again and bigger than a trillion of our suns. In some way of seeing beyond having physical eyes, I looked down and saw the dots that were the earth and sun and solar system and thought of Lindsey. None of it was real. I was the only thing real. The material thing I once identified as and thought of as myself and my world was realized to be a full and total illusion, not even worth defining.

Words like spiritual and Lindsey and Earth flashed before my awareness of perfect peace and were realized as inconsequential, as though they never existed and were only beautiful idea-pictures already come and gone and dissolved back into my actual self of pure light. I zoomed down to Earth and saw Lindsey. It didn’t make sense. I was a gigantic bigger-than-all-concept-of-universe radiant unending shimmering ball of light emanating perfect compassion forever without cause. Even now, as I write this, I am aware that it’s total illusion and ultimately inconsequential. I 
am holding this paradox while sitting in physical space and time, not quite sure how to relate it to you at all, really.

The nature of reality is not what it seems. Even my experiences of perceiving the maya, of perceiving emptiness and suchness throughout my whole “life as Lindsey” as a spiritual seeker, could not come close to this total absorption into self-remembering perfection of total….er uh…beyond words and description annihilation into truth-light.

During this absorption into light I also realized that I was able to sit on the rug of my room as a perfected vibrational entity, not as “Lindsey” but as my true self, a vibration of perfect Buddha nature. My best metaphor for this is that we are like living vibrating nonphysical Tanka paintings. Already perfected and beyond even concepts of enlightenment or self-realization, perfectly realized, we’ve just forgotten, and rightly so because these mind-body-desire mechanisms are not us even though they are. This life is a shadow in a great memory probably already forgotten by unending intelligent light."

Full account at link: andrewdurham.com...

Here's a follow up Q&A with Lindsey for those interested

I'd also like to add one important insight from Alan Watts on the troubles we encounter when searching for the "self":

"Look into yourself and you will become conscious of nothing but a vicious circle, for the very reason that the act of introspection is viciously circular: you cannot see what you are looking for because what you are looking for is the thing that looks. Every self-conscious attempt to know oneself, to improve oneself, to save oneself, to unite oneself with God, must come to this exasperating and impossible conclusion. Somehow, therefore, man must be persuaded to let go of himself."

Originally posted by dominicus

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
I wish you'd kept a journal the whole time, recording the experience as it unfolded, that would have been interesting.

YEah, I only kept a journal of like the biggest insights from those 21 days, which I posted in the original thread. They are much more detailed in my journal, but it would take up 3-4 pages on here so I paraphrased.

I'm hoping to set up a 40 day retreat and this time to be very detailed on the insights and changes of going within and what else happens.

I forgot to mention I was also really inspired to give it a go by this mini-series/documentary called "The Big Silence" where they take a handful of average Joe's in England, and have them do a lengthy silent retreat. The silent retreats are actually inspired by Jesus' 40 days in the Desert and when I watched this Docu, ...well I don't want to spoil it, but let's just say, certain things/insight also remained with these folks as well.

I mention the article and the docu, because I re-read my journal and back tracked a couple years and found that these 2 were a big inspiration to give it a go

And if you can't watch the vid, here's an article that kind of sumerizes the Docu:
Could You Stay Silent for 8 Days?

Excellent - we look forward to you detailed notes from the 40 day retreat please keep the reader in mind and take us with you next time, thanks.

reply to post by deometer


I was struck by the statement that Man must let go of himself. Struck in the sense that this statement is possibly the single most stupid thing that anyone who is stuck in a Desert could do.

I understand this person is speaking from the position of attempting to become more aware by meditation but when in a possible life threatening position of Desert Survival...the worse possible mindset is one where a person is not completely and totally directed in both mind and body on what their surroundings are...what their goal is and what every single thought and action must be directed to keep them alive.

Letting go is foolhardy.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


The only thing your concept of desert survival and his have in common is that they are both trips. Beyond that -- they are completely different.

Yes -- if you want to "survive" the desert, you need to focus on the self. But this wilderness beyond self is not a physical construct, with borders and obstacles that must be overcome (though -- it will tease you with borders and goalposts, and present you with obstacles, if that is what you are in to). This wilderness is endless in all directions and flat as living hell. The only way out of it is to transcend it completely by recognizing a very subtle truth: The wilderness of the spirit is an idea that never actually existed. The only way out of it is to make it very small, and then kiss it away completely, like a dreamer leaving (and forgetting) a dream shortly after waking.

As small as the dream is to your waking self, the wilderness beyond ego-death is even smaller.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I think you are somewhat mistaken. "Letting go of oneself" doesn't mean to just sit around and be attacked and/or die of starvation. One can be completely attuned to their surroundings and operating at full capacity. In fact, that's the whole point. The point also being there is no "self" to find or grab hold of. You-it are an unified process/action. As demonstrated in this Zen koan:

SHOW ME YOUR EGO-MIND
For months, Hui-k’o patiently stood deep in the nocturnal snow outside Bodhidharma’s cave, yearning for instruction. He finally hacked off his own left forearm and presented it as a demonstration of his sincere aspiration for complete enlightenment. Bodhidharma still refused to instruct Hui-k’o.

After many more months of waiting outside the old master's cave, Hui-k’o begged to have his agitated self/mind pacified. The sage retorted, “Show me your self and I will pacify it.” Hui-k’o said “I’ve sought it many years but can’t get hold of it.” Bodhidharma then declared: “There! It is pacified once and for all!” Upon hearing this, suddenly Hui-k’o completely awakened to his transcendent True Nature before/beyond the ego-self

If you got an hour, this is a fantastic lecture from Alan Watts:



And another:



People make the same mistake when they think the Taoist concept of "wu-wei" - which roughly translates to "non-doing" - means to sit around and do nothing. It means nothing of the sort. What it means is a state of perfect spontaneity. Of being aware of the principles, structures and tendencies of the human activity and of the natural phenomena so well that you could use a minimum amount of energy when you have to deal with them. It's being in the flow, or "zone." See the story of the Dexterous Butcher from the Chuang-Tzu:

Cook Ting was cutting up an ox for Lord Wen-hui. As every touch of his hand, every heave of his shoulder, every move of his feet, every thrust of his knee — zip! zoop! He slithered the knife along with a zing, and all was in perfect rhythm, as though he were performing the dance of the Mulberry Grove or keeping time to the Ching-shou music.

“Ah, this is marvelous!” said Lord Wen-hui. “Imagine skill reaching such heights!”

Cook Ting laid down his knife and replied, “What I care about is the Way, which goes beyond skill. When I first began cutting up oxen, all I could see was the ox itself. After three years I no longer saw the whole ox. And now — now I go at it by spirit and don’t look with my eyes. Perception and understanding have come to a stop and spirit moves where it wants. I go along with the natural makeup, strike in the big hollows, guide the knife through the big openings, and following things as they are. So I never touch the smallest ligament or tendon, much less a main joint.

“A good cook changes his knife once a year — because he cuts. A mediocre cook changes his knife once a month — because he hacks. I’ve had this knife of mine for nineteen years and I’ve cut up thousands of oxen with it, and yet the blade is as good as though it had just come from the grindstone. There are spaces between the joints, and the blade of the knife has really no thickness. If you insert what has no thickness into such spaces, then there’s plenty of room — more than enough for the blade to play about it. That’s why after nineteen years the blade of my knife is still as good as when it first came from the grindstone.

“However, whenever I come to a complicated place, I size up the difficulties, tell myself to watch out and be careful, keep my eyes on what I’m doing, work very slowly, and move the knife with the greatest subtlety, until — flop! the whole thing comes apart like a clod of earth crumbling to the ground. I stand there holding the knife and look all around me, completely satisfied and reluctant to move on, and then I wipe off the knife and put it away.”

“Excellent!” said Lord Wen-hui. “I have heard the words of Cook Ting and learned how to care for life!”

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


I disagree. The construct of the Conscious Mind as well as the Subconscious Mind is dependent upon the parameters that either or both creates.

Thus to navigate this construct just as one would navigate any construct must be done in a way that brings tangible results to the self. Any other results are self defeating.

Split Infinity

reply to post by deometer

When I get a chance I will check out the lecture.

I am familiar with various forms of meditation and Martial Arts. In an example I have posted before...different practitioners of several forms of Martial Arts were brought together to demonstrate the use of focused CHI. There was a Human Form torso with sensors placed upon it and Masters of Karate, Kung Fu, Boxing, Tae Kwon Do...etc...all took turns striking this torso to see which practice generated the greatest blow.

In the end...it was not the Masters of multiple thousands of years of Zen based teachings of Asian based Martial Arts that created the greatest concentrated blow but rather the practitioners of Boxing which use Mass times Acceleration equals Force as the goal rather than meditation to release Chi.

It is in a studies ability to have practical applications based upon real life physical laws that have the most value.

Split Infinity