DISCUSSION: The Ridiculous Stereotypes Leveled at Guns and Gun Owners & Where They Come From...

reply to post by TKDRL


Yea I am not trying to be a guy saying take all their guns. I am just saying quit being the guys saying "take it from my cold dead hands" or else they might just railroad the guns back to the days of Daniel Boone. When the assault weapons ban died it gave a green light for a lot of people to say we want every thing now. Such as people truly trying to get armored piercing bullets and depleted uranium bullets legalized. The true 2nd amendment guys need to rain in some of the crazies who want it all. Or you take a chance of them making you lose what you already have. And stepping forward at this time for a real talk about magazine size and the number of them you can have. Or the amount and type of ammo you can have will avoid them taking your guns. Even looking at some of the modification kits might be needed. But I say the gun owners need to step forward and discuss it. Instead of being like the NRA last year where they refused to even talk about it.

reply to post by GoOfYFoOt

Guns are to Citizens what ObamaCare is to Health Care....except we dont have to carry a gun. Finally someone who gets it (insurance analogy). I dont carry a gun but respect your right to do so.

I disagree with the "banning" of guns. No need to take guns from people who don't deserve it.

What I do agree with is tighter regulations at a NATIONWIDE level (rather than state by state) in order to make it tougher for the nutjobs who are about to snap any minute to get their hands on one or two or twelve with all the ammo and bells and whistles to go along side it buying the stuff on spur of the moment at dirt cheap prices, thus making it that much easier for the crazies to lash out and strike while the iron is hot.

We have regulations here in Canada, but we can still own guns. It just makes the process of getting your hands on one a little tougher is all. Regulations do help to weed out the unwanteds... it's certainly no miracle cure, but every little bit does help to tone down the problem.

No need for a stupid "all or nothing" game play action to take place here.

It's unfortunate that Americans are feeling stereotyped. Not all of us non-Americans view you in such a generalized manner.

But the attitude of telling the international community to "get over it" only fans the flames, and thus producing more angst resulting in ad hominem attacks from both sides.

Like it or lump it, we all live in an international community, each and every country's actions has a direct effect on someone else's.

There's no denying of that fact.

As an example to prove the point: 911 effected the entire planet, not just the United States of America.

These are the fears of the international community when incidents happen that have the potential to effect us all in terms of policy changes. If the US decides to go overboard and ban ALL guns... guess what will eventually trickle over to the rest of us ?

That's the way it works in a globally connected world.

reply to post by JBA2848


IMO depleted uranium ammo should be illegal internationally, and wiped from the face of the earth. Then again I think the same about most of our bombs, especially the nukes.

Mag and clip size sold is pretty irrelevant to me, I make my own anyway. When I go to my range in the backyard, I shoot with my 100 round clips, easier than reloading a tiny clip/mag a bunch of times. Trying to regulate how many mags/clips people can have is not practical really. When one breaks and you need a new one, you got to turn in the old one?

Originally posted by CB328

owning guns is an antiquated unnecessary way in this day and age and does no good for anyone

This is absolutely correct. It seems like the gun people are mainly backwards barbarians who don't want to learn to do anything productive with their time and money.

This is a classic example of the stereo-typing involved in the culture war.

Gun control is class warfare.

Gun control is
anti-rural - agriculture workers confront rattlesnakes, coyotes, rabid skunks, badgers and illegal alien opportunists. In much of rural America, police response time is over 30 minutes.

anti-Southern Southern culture has always been more armed and more militarized than the North--whilch makes gun-control....

anti-military because the US armed forces draw from the civilian population, recruiters are more successful in the South; it's why the bulk of military bases are located in the South. Serving in the military carries more status in the Southern and Hispanic subcultures, which are disdained by the urban, northern elites.

classist, because the various taxes, registrations and licensing fees discourage the working-class and poor from owning guns. Poor folks will no longer be able to hunt for food, but the rich will still hunt for sport. The rich will have loopholes so they can keep their guns at country clubs, and so that their bodyguards can still be armed. AWB 1 carried such loopholes, and AWB2 will, as well.

Edit to Add:

Calling gun owners "barbarians" and "neanderthals" is a fine example of the de-humanizing of one's opponents that sets the stage for treating them as less than free and equal citizens.

It's the sort of thing you'd read on "Stormfront," as the posters de-humanize their opponents; desensitizing their own members so that they can oppress their intended victims while still feeling morally superior.

reply to post by CranialSponge


I disagree completely, nationwide gun laws are wrong. What a more urban place like cali thinks is proper, is not the same as what a more rural state may feel is proper. If a state wants to be more restrictive, than fine for them. Having the fed shove urban rules on everyone is unfair and irrational. Plus the supreme court has struck down some bans already as unconstitutional, such as the handgun ban in DC.

Basically I think if people want more laws, and want everyone to agree, they better be rational, fair and very specific. That is how all laws should be written really, specific and easy to understand, not open to interpretation at all. No stuff like "mentally ill" people or people with "mentally ill" family members cannot have guns. Define mentally ill, because written as such, some smartass could interpret that to mean anyone that has seen a shrink for depression, or anyone that ever needed a sleep aid, or other crazy nonesense.

reply to post by TKDRL


Then I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.

I can claim from firsthand experience that nationwide regulations do work for all.
The farmers still get to have their guns, while the city folk still get to tighten the reigns on the nutjobs walking their streets.

Everyone who has the right to own a gun still gets to own them.

You're still making mountains out of molehills by trying to equate extreme measures (banning all handguns) with simplistic not-so-extreme measures (tougher laws to make it harder to buy a new one).

If your an already proven responsible gun owner (registered history and no incidents), then you have nothing to worry about when you want to add a new one to your collection, do you ?

reply to post by CranialSponge


I am not willing to screw over the next generation though. It's not only about me. Like I said, I am not against new rules, but they better be fair, and very specific for it to get the nod from me.

I am not particularly worried right now about buying more guns, unless things change drastically, I simply cannot afford it. Even though a law might not effect me personally, I will not just ignore laws that seem unfair, or way to open to interpretation.

Originally posted by CranialSponge
If your an already proven responsible gun owner (registered history and no incidents), then you have nothing to worry about when you want to add a new one to your collection, do you ?

Little known fact:

It is illegal to "register" firearms in the Great State of Florida! It is no one's business who owns what, here and our legislators enacted a law that makes it a crime to do so...It is my understanding that we are not the only state to prohibit this. It is unconstitutional!

reply to post by GoOfYFoOt


Seriously? Florida is looking better and better to me. Maybe that is where I will end up if I ever make it back to the states. I was thinking AZ or VA, now FL has been added to the list. I am not sure I can handle the heat and humidity though, I might melt

You know, I wonder how many crimes the registry has actually helped to solve.

Canada gun registry has been a total failure and waste of money.
Source

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by CranialSponge

 

I am not willing to screw over the next generation though. It's not only about me. Like I said, I am not against new rules, but they better be fair, and very specific for it to get the nod from me.

Don't concede. We have made it clear that it is NOT a GUN issue. It is a Criminal one!!!

Remember when the TIPS hotline came out? Anyone could call in and report a crime, anonymously, and would receive a cash reward if their information resulted in a conviction. GREAT IDEA! But, what happened to it?

Every bad guy in the country is known by SOMEONE! Make it profitable, and throw a bunch of the bleeding heart media at this! Make everyone in the country feel like they are letting kids die, if they don't turn in their felon uncle, or gang-banger boyfriend for possessing a gun, and PAY THEM WELL FOR IT!!!

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by GoOfYFoOt

 

Seriously? Florida is looking better and better to me. Maybe that is where I will end up if I ever make it back to the states. I was thinking AZ or VA, now FL has been added to the list. I am not sure I can handle the heat and humidity though, I might melt

You know, I wonder how many crimes the registry has actually helped to solve.

Canada gun registry has been a total failure and waste of money.
Source

edit on Sun, 23 Dec 2012 22:01:13 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

Seriously! And I wouldn't recommend any melting, as we both know that Mogwais do not react well to water!!!

reply to post by JBA2848


The Sarah Brady quote is the Liberal creed. As long as the second amendment exists they can not force socialism on America. You can not destroy the Constitution as long as the second amendment exists.

The media does need to stop personalizing violence by interviewing victims loved ones. It goes beyond reporting. It is a feeding frenzy for fat profits. They perpetuate mass murders by assuring them that they will be famous. The murderers name and face should never be seen on the news. It does America no good to nationalize and personalize mass murders. It only creates fat profits for the media organizations.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by CranialSponge

 

I am not willing to screw over the next generation though. It's not only about me. Like I said, I am not against new rules, but they better be fair, and very specific for it to get the nod from me.

I am not particularly worried right now about buying more guns, unless things change drastically, I simply cannot afford it. Even though a law might not effect me personally, I will not just ignore laws that seem unfair, or way to open to interpretation.

edit on Sun, 23 Dec 2012 21:54:43 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

If you want to ensure that any rule changes are fair and sensible for all as well as making sure that the 2nd amendment is followed accordingly, then it's up to you guys to practice your right to get the message across loud and clear to your constituents and lobbyists before they sit down at the bargaining table casting their votes.

But I guarantee you that if you guys sit back with your arm crossed absolutely refusing to give an inch in any way at all... your government is going to step up to the plate and make their own decisions for you. Which will not be a pretty situation.

This situation has become too serious now with all of these incidents happening way too frequently for your heads of state to just sit back quietly and do nothing. Half your country wants some sort of gun controls put into place... so it's now imperative that the rest of you be willing to make concessions or all hell is going to break loose.

The time is now to get your voices heard or you'll be lost in the shuffle.

Originally posted by CranialSponge
But I guarantee you that if you guys sit back with your arm crossed absolutely refusing to give an inch in any way at all... your government is going to step up to the plate and make their own decisions for you. Which will not be a pretty situation.

This is it in a nutshell...It's in our nature, as conservatives, to be, well, conservative! To elaborate, it really struck me the other day as I was watching a video of a televised debate on one of the morning talk shows. There was a liberal-minded guy screaming about gun-control and assault weapons bans, and there was another guy that was obviously chosen for his differing opinions, but was highly reserved and soft spoken.
The loud-mouthed liberal would interrupt and literally yell, everytime the conservative tried to express his views or to offer a rebuttal! It was sickening, that the host allowed it to continue, but I couldn't hear what the pro-gun guy had to say, for the obvious bigoted tactics of the former! Absolutely disgusting!
And, I heard them say at the closing of the segment, that the liberal fellow, was a retired congressman! Makes you think about those that are elected to represent us, and how things get "discussed" in our capital, doesn't it?

It would be a near impossible feat for anyone to convince me to give up my guns. I served in the military all over the globe but besides my military experience I have used my private weapon twice here in the US. Once to stop a robbery at a convenience store which I was there by chance and once when my wife was attacked just as she was returning home from friends late at night. I heard her screaming just outside the door a rapist had followed her home and was attacking her in our driveway. If it wasn’t for the Florida castle doctrine laws I probably would have went to jail but to be honest I would still have done it.

There are bad people in this world no one can deny that. The ability to defend ourselves is a right that should never be taken away. After that incident my wife now concealed carries up until that point she thought I was being a bit paranoid. When I heard the scream I thought she may have been being attacked by a wild dog which is common in our area otherwise I may have been overpowered by that P.O.S.. The attacker was later identified by six other victims whom he had brutalized but because I am paranoid or prepared as I like to put it no woman will ever be harmed again by that monster.

So I invite anyone who thinks they can convince me that I should give up the means to protect my family to try however I ask you U2U me because you will have an uphill battle with it.

reply to post by CranialSponge


Most of our reps seem to think they are our leaders, and don't listen to what we say anyways. Remember the bailout, we had their phones ringing off the hooks, sent emails, letters, they did what they wanted anyways. I still email my NY reps at least once a week, and all I ever get in return is canned copypaste responses.

See, the government will never decide for me what guns I can and can't have. It is not their place to do so, never was. Unless the police are really stupid, they will not be going into the country to try and confiscate any guns. It would be a logistical nightmare, the tactics they use one city people simply will not work here. It is quiet here, no one is gonna sneak up at 2AM to be able to kick in our doors by surprise. My dogs will alert me before anyone is even halfway up my long ass driveway, or anywhere else in the yard.

The only thing a gun registry is good for, is to find all the "illegal guns" in the hands of law abiding citizens after they ban them. It does not find the ones that are used in crimes.......

Originally posted by GoOfYFoOt

Originally posted by CranialSponge
But I guarantee you that if you guys sit back with your arm crossed absolutely refusing to give an inch in any way at all... your government is going to step up to the plate and make their own decisions for you. Which will not be a pretty situation.

This is it in a nutshell...It's in our nature, as conservatives, to be, well, conservative! To elaborate, it really struck me the other day as I was watching a video of a televised debate on one of the morning talk shows. There was a liberal-minded guy screaming about gun-control and assault weapons bans, and there was another guy that was obviously chosen for his differing opinions, but was highly reserved and soft spoken.
The loud-mouthed liberal would interrupt and literally yell, everytime the conservative tried to express his views or to offer a rebuttal! It was sickening, that the host allowed it to continue, but I couldn't hear what the pro-gun guy had to say, for the obvious bigoted tactics of the former! Absolutely disgusting!
And, I heard them say at the closing of the segment, that the liberal fellow, was a retired congressman! Makes you think about those that are elected to represent us, and how things get "discussed" in our capital, doesn't it?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to say.

You damn well need to be the soapbox screamers and pressure your constituents to get it through their skulls or these other looney tune soapbox screamers are going to get their cake and eat it too.

Force them to follow the 2nd amendment, force them to make concessions, force them to find a happy medium somewhere in there that can make everyone satisfied to shut the extremists up.

reply to post by CranialSponge


Nothing ever satisfies extremists though. They just continue moving the goalposts as far as they possibly can. Why anyone would even want to attempt to appease the extremist fringe wings are beyond me. They are a very vocal minority. We have a few people like me that always stand up and do what we can, most people are too busy watching the idiotbox, hell, most people don't even know who their reps are these days, or what bills are introduced. Too much of an inconvenience to them, one of the things seriously wrong with our country. People too busy doing useless things, taught that we should just let the government decide everything for us, that they are our leaders and not our representatives.

Originally posted by CranialSponge
force them to find a happy medium somewhere in there that can make everyone satisfied to shut the extremists up.

Do you mean like a muzzle in their mouth???
I'm kidding!!!