DISCUSSION: The Ridiculous Stereotypes Leveled at Guns and Gun Owners & Where They Come From...

Originally posted by Kovenov
reply to post by GoOfYFoOt

 

Well, the best you can do is what you've done.

Two thumbs up for that.

Well, Thank you for that, but you're nowhere close!!!

I'm just getting started!!!

Originally posted by Generator85

Originally posted by GrandStrategy


I'm not an American. What do I care about your idiotic constitution?

that's what I thought.
But you cared enough to have a long debate with an idiotic American.
Enjoy the freedom and liberties of your country... if you have any.

edit on 24-12-2012 by Generator85 because: (no reason given)

We have plenty. My children won't be going to school through metal detectors, scared to death that some NRA nut is going to burst through the door with high powered rifles. My children won't be going to shopping centres, looking over their shoulder at armed gunmen to keep them safe. They won't have cameras following their every move.

No, they won't have any of that. That is something that American kids will see, because that's the price you're going to pay for keeping your guns, you pig-headed fools!

Enjoy your big brother society

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Originally posted by Generator85

Originally posted by GrandStrategy


I'm not an American. What do I care about your idiotic constitution?

that's what I thought.
But you cared enough to have a long debate with an idiotic American.
Enjoy the freedom and liberties of your country... if you have any.

edit on 24-12-2012 by Generator85 because: (no reason given)

We have plenty. My children won't be going to school through metal detectors, scared to death that some NRA nut is going to burst through the door with high powered rifles.

Enjoy your big brother society

Again...Stuff like this is my point...
Might I inform you, that the US already has 100's of schools that employ "metal detectors" at their entrances...
Where was your outcry when those were being installed?

It is a CRIME issue, not a gun issue!

Please... get some facts. And then, if you would like to discuss those facts, come back and I will gladly converse with you.

Originally posted by GoOfYFoOt

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Originally posted by Generator85

Originally posted by GrandStrategy


I'm not an American. What do I care about your idiotic constitution?

that's what I thought.
But you cared enough to have a long debate with an idiotic American.
Enjoy the freedom and liberties of your country... if you have any.

edit on 24-12-2012 by Generator85 because: (no reason given)

We have plenty. My children won't be going to school through metal detectors, scared to death that some NRA nut is going to burst through the door with high powered rifles.

Enjoy your big brother society

Again...Stuff like this is my point...
Might I inform you, that the US already has 100's of schools that employ "metal detectors" at their entrances...
Where was your outcry when those were being installed?

It is a CRIME issue, not a gun issue!

Please... get some facts. And then, if you would like to discuss those facts, come back and I will gladly converse with you.

Yes, the US already has metal detectors in some schools, but that hasn't worked, so now lets roll them out everywhere and bring in armed guards. Genius idea.

By the by, I'm not saying it's a gun issue. I haven't given my actual opinion on gun control in this thread, as of yet. We're not talking about whether guns ought to be banned or not, we're talking about the hypocrisy in gun advocates of whinging that taking away guns is a great abuse of freedom, where as the state providing, or private companies providing, people to stand around with guns in private and public places supposedly isn't.

All I'm asking for here is some consistency. If you value freedom then you value freedom across the board, you don't just value it when it supports your right to carry guns.

Any American that is serious about freedoms, serious about liberties, they would be just as opposed to armed guards all throughout schools and communities as they would the idea of restricting gun ownership. If you're okay with one and not the other then you're a hypocrite. No two ways about it.

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Originally posted by GoOfYFoOt

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Originally posted by Generator85

Originally posted by GrandStrategy


I'm not an American. What do I care about your idiotic constitution?

that's what I thought.
But you cared enough to have a long debate with an idiotic American.
Enjoy the freedom and liberties of your country... if you have any.

edit on 24-12-2012 by Generator85 because: (no reason given)

We have plenty. My children won't be going to school through metal detectors, scared to death that some NRA nut is going to burst through the door with high powered rifles.

Enjoy your big brother society

Again...Stuff like this is my point...
Might I inform you, that the US already has 100's of schools that employ "metal detectors" at their entrances...
Where was your outcry when those were being installed?

It is a CRIME issue, not a gun issue!

Please... get some facts. And then, if you would like to discuss those facts, come back and I will gladly converse with you.

Yes, the US already has metal detectors in some schools, but that hasn't worked, so now lets roll them out everywhere and bring in armed guards. Genius idea.

By the by, I'm not saying it's a gun issue. I haven't given my actual opinion on gun control in this thread, as of yet. We're not talking about whether guns ought to be banned or not, we're talking about the hypocrisy in gun advocates of whinging that taking away guns is a great abuse of freedom, where as the state providing, or private companies providing, people to stand around with guns in private and public places supposedly isn't.

All I'm asking for here is some consistency. If you value freedom then you value freedom across the board, you don't just value it when it supports your right to carry guns.

Any American that is serious about freedoms, serious about liberties, they would be just as opposed to armed guards all throughout schools and communities as they would the idea of restricting gun ownership. If you're okay with one and not the other then you're a hypocrite. No two ways about it.

You still don't get it...
No one wants armed guards on every street corner or in every classroom... I don't know anyone who wants that.
We're talking about 2-4 armed people in schools, depending on how big the school is.
ONCE AGAIN... this idea does NOT impede freedom in any way.
You seem to have this crazy idea that by allowing teachers/guards to carry guns in schools that its somehow anti-freedom!
What do you have envisioned here?? Big men in full s.w.a.t. gear carrying M-16s??
If you do, you're a nutter! We're talking about casually dressed individuals with a small sidearm.

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Any American that is serious about freedoms, serious about liberties, they would be just as opposed to armed guards all throughout schools and communities as they would the idea of restricting gun ownership.

Why? Please, enlighten us misguided Americans....

Originally posted by Generator85
You still don't get it...
No one wants armed guards on every street corner or in every classroom... I don't know anyone who wants that.
We're talking about 2-4 armed people in schools, depending on how big the school is.
ONCE AGAIN... this idea does NOT impede freedom in any way.

UNTIL the next shooting, then you're ready to make compromises again so you can keep your assault rifles.

Let's be real. If I asked you this time last year none of you were calling for armed people in schools. Why the change of heart? I'll tell you why, you're just clutching at straws in the hopes of deflecting a gun ban.

And when there's another mass shooting in the future - and make no mistake there will be - you'll be back again saying "we're only talking about 2 armed people standing guard in the local McDonalds. 'We're only talking about a team of gunmen standing guard at the local library!'

Me and you are just about done here, it's obvious to me you're not prepared to have an adult discussion. The america you're calling for looks a lot like North Korea.

If somebody who can read wants to pick up the baton you repeatedly drop, I'll happily discuss this with them. But I have no time for big government fascists like you.

Originally posted by Generator85

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Any American that is serious about freedoms, serious about liberties, they would be just as opposed to armed guards all throughout schools and communities as they would the idea of restricting gun ownership.

Why? Please, enlighten us misguided Americans....

Please stop conflating you and your opinion with Americans and American opinion. That's twice you've done that.

When I imply that you're stupid and hypocritical that's me implying that you're stupid and hypocritical. I don't consider you a spokesperson or a representative of every American - sorry.

reply to post by GrandStrategy


Silly one, you need to re-read that post.
He said the world, but ok I just read about how in the UK gun crime is on the rise, um.... why?
Only a fool would think any kind of ban works against criminals.

reply to post by GrandStrategy


Silly silly little one, please pay close attention.
But first

And it's not just schools, is it. What about all the other shootings.

Gun Free Zones and criminals, ok back to it.

Clinton enacted an assault weapons ban from 1994-2004, here's the results:
11/15/95 - Lynville, Tn School shooting
2/2/96 - Moses Lake, Wa School shooting
2/19/97 - Bethel, Ak School shooting
10/1/97 - Pearl, Ms School shooting
12/1/97 - West Paducah, Ky School shooting
4/24/98 - Edinboro, Pa School shooting
5/21/98 - Springfield, Or School shooting
4/20/99 - Columbine, Co School shooting
5/20/99 - Conyers, Ga School shooting
11/2/99 - Honolulu, Hi Office Shooting
12/26/00 - Wakefield, Ma Office Shooting
3/5/01 - Santee, Ca School Shooting
3/22/01 El Cajon, Ca School Shooting
1/16/02 Grundy, Va College Shooting
4/14/03 New Orleans, La School Shooting


All gun free zones and all under a worthless ban.

They should ban soccer in the UK and South America. You people will kill anybody over that stupid game, start riots and do so much damage.

But let us stay on point because this post is about

The Ridiculous Stereotypes Leveled at Guns and Gun Owners & Where They Come From

Ridiculous stereotypes, indeed. And lets face the facts anyone not in America can say what they wish, but the truth is they can't understand our laws, freedom, or rights and only contribute small rants of what they are told to think.

And, as not to offend you, Happy Holidays!
.

I'm not an American. What do I care about your idiotic constitution?

reply to post by GrandStrategy


Exactly!!!!!!
And why should we care about your idiotic, and borderline, ignorant opinion?

Now we are getting somewhere.

Bath Township, Michigan, on May 18, 1927, Andrew Kehoe killed 38 elementary school children, two teachers, and four other adults and injured at least 58 people. Kehoe first killed his wife, set off a major explosion in a school building, and committed suicide with a third explosion. Most of the victims were children in the second to sixth grades (7–14 years of age) attending the Bath Consolidated School. Their deaths constitute the deadliest mass murder in a school in United States history.

reply to post by GrandStrategy


Your logic, is not logic.
Not one shot was fired and bombs were/are illegal.

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Yes, the US already has metal detectors in some schools, but that hasn't worked, so now lets roll them out everywhere and bring in armed guards. Genius idea.

Do you have a list of the mass killings at these schools that have failed with metal detectors. EVERY school with metal detectors already have armed guards too, and a single access point to get in. Making a statement like above you need to provide all the empirical data that they have failed.... I'll save you time...there isn't any....

All I'm asking for here is some consistency. If you value freedom then you value freedom across the board, you don't just value it when it supports your right to carry guns.

When you go to a bank and a armed guard opens the door for you is that attack against your freedom? When you go to an sporting event and see security guards is that an attack too? Or the other 100 of other places you would typically see some kind of security.

Any American that is serious about freedoms, serious about liberties, they would be just as opposed to armed guards all throughout schools and communities as they would the idea of restricting gun ownership. If you're okay with one and not the other then you're a hypocrite. No two ways about it.

We have over 300 million people here and a small number are crazy and a little larger number are really stupid. 10,000 people are murdered by guns each year, but another 6000 are also murdered by everything else. twice as many people kill themselves by over dosing with legal drugs than are killed by guns. 4xs (40,000) are also killed by people doing crazy and stupid things with their cars every year. Hell 40k poison themselves every year....

Now I'm all for letting people kill themselves, but when their craziness and stupidity kills and injures others wouldn't you agree they are stepping on other people's freedoms? To say the least...

The big question is how do we stop these crazy and stupid people from killing and injuring others too as they self destruct. One way is to turn everyone into a bubble boy of protection where they can't move without `the Government controlling everything they do... (kind of a bad idea, don't you think? and we have a lot of data that suggests this only effects the sane/willing and not the crazy/stupid people where we need to focus on.)

There other way is to allow people their freedoms, but put safety mechanisms in place to help filter the crazies and stupid out from doing general harm to the public. Sometimes that means stiffer laws that only stupid/crazy people would break routinely, another is physical protection when laws mean nothing to these people as their intent is to do harm.

So we can either take guns away from a person like myself that is neither crazy or stupid, that has 30 years of training with them and keeps them under lock and key in a big safe, or we can secure vulnerable places like our schools to deter the crazies and stupid....

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Originally posted by Generator85
You still don't get it...
No one wants armed guards on every street corner or in every classroom... I don't know anyone who wants that.
We're talking about 2-4 armed people in schools, depending on how big the school is.
ONCE AGAIN... this idea does NOT impede freedom in any way.

UNTIL the next shooting, then you're ready to make compromises again so you can keep your assault rifles.

Let's be real. If I asked you this time last year none of you were calling for armed people in schools. Why the change of heart? I'll tell you why, you're just clutching at straws in the hopes of deflecting a gun ban.

And when there's another mass shooting in the future - and make no mistake there will be - you'll be back again saying "we're only talking about 2 armed people standing guard in the local McDonalds. 'We're only talking about a team of gunmen standing guard at the local library!'

Me and you are just about done here, it's obvious to me you're not prepared to have an adult discussion. The america you're calling for looks a lot like North Korea.

If somebody who can read wants to pick up the baton you repeatedly drop, I'll happily discuss this with them. But I have no time for big government fascists like you.

Do you not understand that it is currently illegal for a person to carry a gun into a school, concealed or otherwise. It's called a "gun free" zone. McDonalds' and Librarires are not gun-free zones.. anyone can carry a firearm into these places.. therefore.. there would be no need to place a guard there!
Good lord if you're going to have such a bold and vocal opinion about MY country.. at least do your homework!
I am completely aghast at your ignorance. You form your opinions on half-truths and misconceptions!

And for the record, I've been of the opinion that teachers should be allowed to carry firearms since Columbine. Go ahead, go look that up.

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Originally posted by Generator85

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Any American that is serious about freedoms, serious about liberties, they would be just as opposed to armed guards all throughout schools and communities as they would the idea of restricting gun ownership.

Why? Please, enlighten us misguided Americans....

Please stop conflating you and your opinion with Americans and American opinion. That's twice you've done that.

When I imply that you're stupid and hypocritical that's me implying that you're stupid and hypocritical. I don't consider you a spokesperson or a representative of every American - sorry.

You're right I shouldn't have said Americans -I was being facetious- as you called GUN OWNERS hypocrites.

There is no need to resort to calling me stupid just because I disagree with you.. that is rude, childish and uncivilized.. and I'm pretty sure it goes against ATS' T&C.. Have I called YOU any names in our debate? No, I haven't.

But once again, I asked you a question and you have successfully avoided answering it...

Hmmmmm... I wonder why... OH YEAH because you can't! You couldn't answer the first question I posed either.. about the constitution... you just called it idiotic.... VERY mature.. that REALLY shows me you know what you're talking about.

How are you going make a stupid, hypocrite like me see the light if you don't respect me as a human and answer my questions?

Ya know what, don't bother.. you'll probably just spout off some more nonsense that you think you understand.
You do not fully grasp what life is like in America just like I have no idea what life is like wherever you live.. all you know is whatever news you get -which ,based on our conversation, is severely inaccurate. You are not an American, so don't act like you understand how our society functions and argue with Americans so vehemently about our policies when you don't even understand the law of our land!

If there is a god, may he/she have mercy on your soul.

reply to post by GrandStrategy


Sadly I have to give you this point. The sad truth is, that most Americans now are simply sheep who have been weaned on the misdirection of the main stream media, and who have had cameras and metal detectors since they were in grade school and are accustomed to this invasion of privacy.

I for one, and there are others, recognize the fact that we have not had the freedom that we portray to the rest of the world for quite some time. The ignorance of the average person now is shocking to me. People go around with their nose buried in their smartphones and oblivious to the freedoms they so casually vote away in favor of the big brother police state.

"It's all good, they said on Fox News that the economy is in an upswing and unemployment is down." or "Wow we have had a lot of gun violence lately, have you seen the news? We need to make some more laws." "If we would just get more police, then the criminals would not be able to rob people like they do." Just for a couple of examples that I have heard with my own ears in the last couple months. The lack of depth and disconnection from our reality is staggering!

I used to think our vote counted and that by casting my vote I was making a difference. My wife quit voting when they gave the presidency to Bush over the popular vote to Al Gore. She said they do whatever they want to do, so why bother? I am almost there with her at this point. Just trying to hold my head up in this corrupt country and remember that "Honor is a gift a man gives to himself."

We are not all as ignorant as you think, though the mainstream seems to be deteriorating with every year that goes by, some of us are watching...and remember.

reply to post by Coopdog


Unfortunately, I agree.

Originally posted by CB328

owning guns is an antiquated unnecessary way in this day and age and does no good for anyone

This is absolutely correct. It seems like the gun people are mainly backwards barbarians who don't want to learn to do anything productive with their time and money.

You guys must be so shielded from the real world out there..

Originally posted by Coopdog
Sadly I have to give you this point. The sad truth is, that most Americans now are simply sheep who have been weaned on the misdirection of the main stream media, and who have had cameras and metal detectors since they were in grade school and are accustomed to this invasion of privacy.

I for one, and there are others, recognize the fact that we have not had the freedom that we portray to the rest of the world for quite some time. The ignorance of the average person now is shocking to me. People go around with their nose buried in their smartphones and oblivious to the freedoms they so casually vote away in favor of the big brother police state.

While I agree with the basis for your argument, I would like to point out a few facts and finer points...

Freedom, while definitely waning across this once great land, still varies widely from state to state, and from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. It also seems, and could probably be proven, that the closer you get to a larger municipality, the tighter the restrictions and laws, resulting in less freedom as well!

This is indicative of several things, but I would like to point out one, in particular. It struck me, when I was looking at a political map of the USA after the 2012 general election. It was broken down into counties and parishes, that were colored red or blue indicating that the majority voted for either Romney or Obama. It amazed me, that someone who was unfamiliar with our country, could use that map to identify all of the larger cities and urban areas, based SOLELY on the blue areas on the map!
Which tells me, that the political divide in this country may not be as much about ideological differences, as it is about our given communities' lifestyles and the criminal element that we are, or are not subjected to, on a daily basis!

What say you?

I agree 100%. It is largely divided into urban and rural in similar fashion to blue and red areas. I just spent some time perusing the bbc website and was very surprised to find the same inflammatory headlines across the pond as are in our own news. It would seem the international news is putting pressure on their people to express anti-gun sentiments the same as our own is doing to us, regardless of their own beliefs, they are being programmed to say the same thing that the mainstream Americans are.

Go read it for yourself. Why does it make a difference to the people of the UK what goes on over here? THere are tragedies all over the world happening at the hands of terrorists with guns, why the international focus on a small town in connecticut? The whole script seems to be to change the average persons viewpoint. Dunno why I am surprised at all.